I feel pretty rubbish at present. I was made redundant in my job in 2012 due to ill health, never felt well enough to work.
Managed to get a job in care work but I was not eating properly, sleeping properly. I got about 6 hours sleep, weight dropped to 6 stone and I needed to help my mum and dad who were both unwell. Things came to a head a year later and I was back on the dole again. It took months for the circles under my eyes to lighten. My partner said if I didn't leave that job I could've been seriously ill. My shifts were
8am - 9am plus 4 miles there and back
12.30 - 13.30 plus 4 miles there and back
17.05 - 18.05 plus 4 miles there and back
Monday to Friday
Constant back and forth to doctors and endo.
My eyes are puffy, eyebrows falling out, swelling in neck with nodules, dry skin, heavy cycles which come without warning, feeling cold. I am iron deficient diagnosed 2010, folate deficient diagnosed 2016 taking 5mg folic acid, low in B12 diagnosed 2017 having B12 injections and vitamin D deficient diagnosed 2013 taking 3000IU
Thanks
DEC-2017
FERRITIN 55 (30 - 400)
FOLATE 2.6 (2.5 - 19.5)
VITAMIN B12 238 (190 - 900)
VITAMIN D TOTAL 60.1 (50 - 75 SUBOPTIMAL)
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Cirsty
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I was severely low thyroid and doctors didn't even notice or diagnose me with it. They just said I had pcos and depression. They said since my TSH was considered normal, that there was nothing wrong and refused to even test for anything else like T3 or T4. I was severely depressed, almost completely disabled, and considering suicide and they did absolutely nothing useful whatsoever.
I recommend trying a small amount of coleus forskohlii (herb) to stimulate your thyroid if you are depressed. You should probably also use lots of raw thyroid to strengthen your thyroid. Thyroids also need iodine to produce thyroid hormones. T3 is 3 iodine molecules bound to 1 tyrosine. That is what T3 means/stands for. T4 is 4 iodine molecules bound to tyrosine.
I successfully improved my thyroid function over the counter so I wouldn't be disabled and have to kill myself since the doctors wouldn't do anything. I used lots of iodine, but also selenium, and D3 to help guard against autoimmune attack. I've gotten my thyroid tested by doctors a few times in the last few years, but haven't gone to them for anything else. Before I started taking iodine, my TSH was 2-3.5. After I started taking iodine, I felt much better, but usually, my TSH tested between 4.4-5.6. If I took coleus forskohlii (herb), I felt less symptoms of hypothyroidism and my TSH seemed to also test higher when I used it. I think I was hypothyroid before and for some reason my body just didn't make any TSH to stimulate it until after I started using iodine and coleus forskohlii.
Last fall, I stopped using as much D3 and selenium as usual. I felt more depressed and got my thyroid tested. My TSH was 10.89, which indicates I probably had hashimoto's. I started using the D3 and selenium again. A few months later, I got my thyroid tested and my TSH was down to 4.4 and my TPO antibodies tested 0 (this is the first time doctors ever tested anything besides my TSH before, so I don't know what else might have changed). Doctors always say taking iodine will make hashimoto's worse, but I actually increased the amount of iodine I was taking between those 2 tests. Iodine is necessary to produce thyroid hormones and hashimoto's is an auto-immune problem, not necessarily a thyroid problem. In my opinion, it's not necessary to avoid taking iodine if you have hashimoto's, just address the immune response issue. I don't think it's worth worrying too much about what doctors say, because if they knew what they were talking about, I wouldn't be in this situation and wouldn't have had undiagnosed hypothyroidism for over a decade and almost had to kill myself before I diagnosed and treated it myself because doctor's couldn't and didn't know what the hell they were talking about.
If you do research for yourself and see a conflict between an alternative medicine, holistic, or naturopathic recommendation and a conventional medical one, go with the naturopathic one. They are much better and not just design to keep people sick so they will be dependent on pharmaceuticals for life. I have taken over 100 mg (yes, milligrams/mg, not micrograms/mcg) for over a year and did not have a single noticeable adverse side effect from it. The only time doctors detected any noticeable indication of possible hashimoto's/autoimmune attack was when I reduced the amount of D3 and selenium I took or stopped taking it for a while because I ran out and was too busy to get more for a while. I was very consistent with it before and as soon as I started using it again, symptoms and test measurements improved. If you take lots of iodine, though, you do need to do some research and make sure you are taking the most bio-available form of it. You can overdose on iodine with certain types of it. For example, Dr Lugol's solution is a supplement form of iodine is very easy to overdose on, unlike the one I was using. I don't like to list brands or links online because they have a tendency to disappear afterwards if they are working (I suspect corrupt work by pharmaceutical industry supporters). Potassium iodide is not the most bio-available form of iodine. There are other forms that are much better that you can take more of without having any adverse effects from it. The form of iodine effects how efficiently and effectively the iodine can be metabolized without any adverse effects.
If you need more vitamin D3, get sublingual D3. I use at least 2 per day sublingual D3 tablets of 10,000 IU per tablet, but sometimes more, especially if I get sick. You actually need 20,00IU+ per day of D3 for optimal health. Sublingual supplements are designed to dissolve under your tongue instead of just being swallowed. They reach your blood stream more efficiently that way.
Hi, SpaceTacoRaptor. Would you pm me with the brand of iodine you use? I have Lugol’s but don’t use it any more because, as you rightly say, it’s very easy too take too much of it. Many thanks.
Hi. Erm, so much the other way around. TSH at 4.4 is hypothyroid. In actuality "making TSH" does not mean you stimulate your thyroid. It is the complete opposite. The higher the TSH, the less your thyroid is stimulated and the lower your thyroid hormones will be (TSH is not a thyroid hormone). On the other hand, the lower your the TSH is, the better and the easier your thyroid is working. The higher TSH (over 2.0) means a thyroid that is slowing down, sluggish or low thyroid (low thyroid means low T3 and T4, which goes along with a higher TSH), which is bad.
TSH all by it's lonesome is not how thyroid function is evaluated. Your thyroid is evaluated by measuring thyroid hormone levels FT3 and FT4, and at the very same time TSH is measured. This is called a "thyroid panel". TSH does not come from your thyroid and it is not a thyroid hormone. TSH comes from the pituitary gland. Thyroid hormones are T4 and T3. Low TSH does not mean low thyroid. It means a faster functioning thyroid. The higher your TSH, the lower or slower your thyroid is. What are your FT3 and FT4 levels? These are the ones that matter.
By taking too much iodine, you've succeeded in slowing your thyroid down even more. That's why your TSH is now higher. TSH at 4.4 is hypothyroid. Most people consume enough iodine through their food and through table salt, which is iodinized.
You don't have Hashimoto's if you don't have thyroid antibodies. Hashimoto's is only diagnosed by high antibodies. High TSH has nothing to do with diagnosis. High TSH simply means hypothyroid. If your antibodies are not over the top number of normal on the lab range, then you don't have Hashimoto's. High antibodies mean your body is attacking your thyroid. This attack is what causes the hypothyroid symptoms that some (but not all) people with Hashimoto's experience. Hashimoto's is a very complex disease that most people don't understand, and especially people who don't have it. It is not as simple as "just addressing the autoimmune issue". If that was the case and it was so easy, then none of us who actually have Hashimoto's would have it anymore. As with any autoimmune disease, once the body starts attacking itself, there is no magic switch or formula to turn it off. Hashimoto's is a life time disease.
And YES, if you actually have Hashimoto's for real, then you should NOT ever take extra iodine. Even people who are hypothyroid should not take extra iodine, as you can see from your high TSH. The only reason to take extra iodine is if you do an iodine test and it comes back as deficient. Taking a bunch of iodine is a good way to mess up your thyroid even more, like slowing it down, increasing TSH levels. Iodine toxicity is very real. By taking 100's of mcg of iodine per day, your high TSH is showing you that your body has way too much iodine in it. If you don't believe me, please go an ask your doctor for a urine iodine test.
People absolutely do not need 20,000 iu D3 per day for optimal health. Taking that amount daily is a good way to create Vitamin D toxicity, which will cause you all sorts of other problems. No one should be taking that amount unless they are diagnosed as deficient and are then getting their Vitamin D tested regularly. The amount of D3 needed daily depends upon your individual levels determined by lab tests, amount of exposure to sun light, and your other health conditions.
I agree about research, as long as it is from qualified sources. The basics are so very important. Basic thyroid function, treatment knowledge, Hashimoto's awareness, thyroid awareness, nutritional awareness. Self medicating without lab tests and without the guidance of an educated doctor is a good way to damage your body. Once your ruin your thyroid, you can't get a new one.
Hashimoto's is only diagnosed by high antibodies. High TSH has nothing to do with diagnosis.
Occasionally someone is diagnosed from other observations such as ultrasound. Agreed - high TSH is typical of hypothyroid of any cause except central/secondary or tertiary.
Good point. I believe that is rather unusual, or perhaps it's early on to have the Hashimoto's patterns on the ultrasound, but no antibodies to diagnose the attack. The antibodies against the thyroid have not developed yet?
You mentioned your eyes are puffy. Do you have Graves? I'm not sure what specifically is best for graves disease TSI antibodies, but selenium is good for reducing TPO. I've been treating hypothyroidism and health issues with supplements for years and one of the things I was using consistently was 20,000 or more IU of D3 per day and 200-400mcg / day of selenium. I stopped using as much for a few months and my TSH went up to 10.89 (usually 4.4-5.6 for me). They didn't test the antibodies, but with a TSH that high, it's likely my antibodies were high. I started taking the selenium and D3 again. Next time I got my thyroid tested in a few months, my TSH went down to 4.4. I had 0 TPO antibodies on the test, but my anti-TG was 10.4. I read a book by Dr Brownstein called "Iodine: Why you need it. Why you can't live without it" that said selenium is needed to produce an enzyme that is a limiting factor that I think has something to do with controlling anti-TPO response.
Doctors always say iodine will make Hashimoto's worse and tell you not to take it, but I actually increase the amount of iodine I was taking between those 2 tests and it still improved. The type of iodine really has more to do with side effects and negative reactions from taking it than taking too much of it. If you take iodine, make sure you use iodine in the most bio-available form. Potassium iodide is not the most bio-available, so it's easier to get symptoms of overdose from using too much of it and you have to be more careful with it. You have to be very careful if you are taking a supplement like Lugol's solution because with that type of supplement, one drop can make the difference between handle-able and too much. I have hundreds of mg (yes mg, not mcg) of iodine per day for over a year before with no side effects or signs of overdose at all whatsoever. You just have to do your research and use the most bio-available form of iodine. Always do your research and think for yourself. Don't listen to anyone (including doctors) without doing your own research and thinking for yourself.
Hint: If alternative/natural treatment solutions contradict with conventional allopathic/big pharma recommendations, the natural treatment is generally the one that is right.
Have you detoxed at all or gone on a diet? I've heard toxins can cause/contribute thyroid problems and especially auto-immune thyroid problems. It's often recommended
I also would recommend raw thyroid to anyone with a thyroid problem.
I recently went to a doctor who also said I have hashimoto's. I have gone to doctors for blood tests before, but usually I don't take anything from them and just use them to get blood tests. I'm currently trying to get more info on how to lower anti-TG. My TPO antibodies have been low though with what I've been doing and overall my thyroid function has improved a lot naturally. I used to be severely hypothyroid but am only mildly hypothyroid now and I made that improvement without any help from doctors or pharmaceuticals. It was very hard, but it can be done!
Oh, but when you detox, don't rush and over-detox too much at once. Just do a little bit at a time and don't rush. You can get some side effects from detoxing your liver too hard and too fast. If you use a liver detox supplement, I recommend using a mild one and always start with a small amount of a new supplement at first and then work your way up in case it kicks you hard. Some people are very sensitive to substances and react strongly. Just because something is an OTC supplement doesn't mean it can't be powerful. People under estimate the effectiveness of OTC supplements.
You don't have Hashimoto's if you don't have thyroid antibodies that are over the normal range. You mentioned your TG was 10.4. What is the low and high number of the lab range?
Increasing TSH is not good. It does not not mean you are improving your thyroid, it's means you're making it worse worse by slowing it down. Low TSH = fast/good or ok. High TSH = slow/bad
Yes, but even with low a healthy level of TSH, your FT3 and FT4 can be too low, and you can have hypo symptoms. The decade before I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s my TSH ranged from .80 to 1.7. Occasionally some doctor would randomly throw in testing Total T4 or FT4. FT4 was usually from 1/4 to half range. No one looked any further and my symptoms were ignored. In their minds, FT3 and antibodies didn’t exist and wasn’t important. My symptoms were not the classic hypo symptoms anyway. If they had been aware of other less common hypo symptoms maybe it would have made sense.
When I was diagnosed, my TSH was 1.5, FT3 and FT4 were around 1/4 range. My TPO was only 1000 back them. I was starting to get some extreme symptoms at that point, some really ill episodes that sent me to emergency a few times over a previous two year period. Doctors could not figure out what was wrong. I only gained a couple of pounds, so they said I was not hypo. Forget about my bloods and other symptoms, right? My symptoms all increased to the highest levels. New ones developed. For five months I went from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what was wrong with me. They all said my thyroid was fine and that I didn’t need medication and should not take medication. Finally one doctor listened, ran tests. TSH was almost 8, FT3 and FT4 were at the bottom, TPO was an immeasurable amount, beyond how high the lab range could go. Beyond6500. It can all happen that fast.
Too true, I have secondary hypo and my TSH has never been above 0,6, even when my free t4 was under range. But statistically a person is very unlikely to have a healthy thyroid with a TSH of over 2.5
I do not have the mental strength to deal with my symptoms or the way I have been feeling at present as well as the fact that my inability to deal with my symptoms do not match my current results.
Do you have any other diagnoses or taking any other medications? I used to take ability for 2 years and birth control pills for pcos symptoms I had since puberty to regulate my period, reduce pain and pms, and reduce acne. When I first stopped going to doctors and went off my meds because they were killing me and the doctors didn't do anything about it, I was so severely depressed I was too disabled to even keep up with 1 class and a part time job. I was very estrogenic and started taking progesterone cream and the depression and brain fog immediately improved enough for me to catch up on all my work for the 1 class I was taking and pass. It helped tremendously. In recent years, I have also been able to have a regular period cycle without taking any kind of medication or birth control for it at all for the first time in my life.
Coleus Forskohlii has also been useful for stimulating my thyroid and reducing my depression. I'd recommend that over progesterone for most people unless they are definitely highly estrogenic and/or low in progesterone. Start with a very small amount, though. You might want to divide 1 capsule in 2 or 3 pieces at first and work your way up to a higher amount. It gave me insomnia and irritability at first if I took too much too soon, but it did help a lot with the low thyroid symptoms and with strengthening my thyroid. You should also take tons of raw thyroid to strengthen your thyroid.
If you absolutely need to take a thyroid medication, nature thyroid is probably the best one I know of. I live in the US, so I'm not sure if some of the stuff that's available where you are is different.
Why would you think it's the best? It depends on the individual. Some people only need T4, some only need T3, some need both. NDT has both. Some people with Hashimoto's have autoimmune reactions to NDT because it's made from a pig. There can be antigens from what the pig ate, fillers, or simply that people have a reaction against pig hormone because it's not natural in the human body.
Thanks. I left a message with my endo on Monday to say I am feeling unwell and need a dose increase. He has not yet gotten back to me. I feel like changing endos if this keeps up. I was thinking about being referred to Cardiff hospital? Apparently there is a good endo there.
If it was me, I'd have already found a new one. If a doctor doesn't listen to what I am saying, I'm out of there. If a doctor can't read and interpret my labs correctly, I'm out of there. If a doctor can't prescribe the medication that I need and do best on, I'm out of there. Life is too short to mess around!
Yes, you could. That's why you need more diagnostics. That's the only way to know.
I have Hashimoto's and I have high TPO, no elevated TG. Due to some of my symptoms, a new endocrinologist that I went to wants to test me for Graves too.
It's possible to have both Graves and Hashimoto's at the same time. A diffuse goiter is consistent with Graves. Those other symptoms are not 100% specific to Hashimoto's, either. She has been diagnosed with Hashimoto's but Graves has not been ruled out. Now she has a diffuse goiter and these possibly Graves-like symptoms.
I just say, "I'd like to test this test, this test, and this test.". If they try to say, "Oh, you probably don't have that.", I say, "Probably not, but I need to check to make sure." If they say, you don't need that test. I say, "I'm probably wrong. Let's make sure that I am.". I'm not sure how it works where you're at, if you need to pay part of the lab bills? Where I'm at, we do. Once I even had to say, It's my body, my money. That shut him up. My suspicion was right and the the test showed concerns.
Dear, Dear Cirsty, You are brave to admit to not having “the mental strength” to deal with things. I, too frequently feel the same. The advice I’m given by well-meaning folks is to .....do more!! Like: research, exercise, positive thinking, blah blah. I had to give myself permission to do less. Go to bed at 1800, or earlier. On the day I feel good enough, I will then: do research, exercise, socialize. Then I find right medications for me, or not. Bizarrely, an anti depressant helped me after 10 years of me refusing to take them. I’m also on a bio-identical thyroid med. Honor yourself first and then you can listen and love others. Just “getting with it” does not always work.
To me, sublingual supplements seem to be more effective than pills or capsules. Superior Source is a good brand of sublingual supplements. Before I used to take b vitamin pills and didn't notice any difference afterwards, but when I switched to using sublingual b vitamin complex, I noticed a big difference immediately. Superior source also sells sublingual D vitamins with 10,000 IU per pill.
Cirsty, there is nothing normal about the vitamin results you've posted here! Every one of these looks deficient to me
Doctors are very little help with this. They think being inside the range is all that counts. But actually it's important to be at a decent level inside those ranges. And for a lot of them they need to be at the very top to not cause symptoms. At the moment you'll be getting symptoms from these!
I completely relate to you bring too sick to concentrate and figure all this stuff out. That's how I felt when I first got to the forum. I just kept looking at it at a certain time every day and reading people's posts until things started to sink in.
What I suggest you do is take one of these vitamins at a time I suggest starting with vitamin D as it's quite straightforward. Read what people like Seaside Susie say, get online and buy the tablets they say you need, and start taking them. Then a couple of weeks or months later when you feel ready, move onto the next one and work on that. Take everything in small steps, don't try to figure out everything at once.
Hi Cirsty, sorry, I didn't read well enough and see you were already taking a lot of suppliments. Looks like none of these are working, as you're still at deficiency levels.
This is okay, because it means now you're not building from a clean slate, you're building from already knowing the current doses are too low and you need to increase. Vitamin D is still a nice simple one to start with!
Looks like you're taking 1000IU of vitamin D, and you've been deficient since 2013. This really needs to get sorted, and doctors don't help! 1000IU is a pretty low dose. I take 3000 per day and my levels are near the top of the range. That's basically just a maintenance.
You need to take a very high dose for several weeks or months to raise your levels, and then go down to a decently high maintenance dose, probably 2000 or 3000 units. I'm not sure what loading dose to start with, but I can look it up if you ask me to.
An important thing is that you need to take vitamin K2 at the same time, as it helps maximise the benefits. Many good quality tablets contain both. I like Thorne's research liquid you take it with a little eye dropper, which costs around £25 and lasts several months. Recently I haven't been able to find that for sale, but there were other liquids available that contained both. Hopefully you can find Thorne's, because it's a good brand.
If you start to raise this number you should hopefully feel a little better very quickly. Vitamin D deficiency causes symptoms and you've been left with it for a long time, which is really rough on you!
That's ok, thanks. I've been taking Better You oral spray since Sep 2017, 3000iu and it contains K2 MK7, is it ok to raise to 6000iu? How long does vit D take to rise?
That sounds like a good one. I'm pretty sure 6000 would be fine. But off the top of my head I don't know what would be recommended. You can take 10s of thousands for a short time to kick start things. I will have a little search for you.
Hi Cirsty, I've had a search. I can't find any details for very high loading dose. But the Vitamin D Council actually don't recommend that anyway. They recommend taking a high daily dose. They suggest 5000IU per day.
It's hard to guess how long it will take to raise. As a rule vitamins take a long time to raise. In a perfect world you should retest in 6 months or even less, just to confirm that number is going up.
You should definitely get a retest some time in the next year. Just to make sure you're on track - that you've had a good increase, and that you're not starting to go over.
Vitamin D council recommend staying on 5000IU forever, as a maintenance dose. Although this is a little controversial, and others say 3 or 4000IU is the top you should take forever.
It's also important to take vitamin D with your fattiest meal of the day!
Searching through the forum I saw a lot of people with numbers similar to yours saying they'd had a lot of improvement when they got on a higher dose, especially with mood. So hopefully you will, too
5000 IU can be bought on Amazon for around £1500. I take daily and my nephew takes 10,000 IU twice a week. 800IU that most GPs give is for maintenance, will take ages to build levels up. Hope this helps!
3000iu is a maintenance dose for some people. How soon are you planning on re-testing your D? You can raise D rather quickly, if you take high enough dose. In that case, testing is uber important. My maintenance dose is 10,000iu's, taken 3x per week. Sometime 4x in the winter. I am outside a lot every day, but I wear sun screen, hat's and sun protection all around, even in the winter.
Hi Cirsty, have just looked through your thread and seen there are lots of people telling you about their own pet theories, and arguing back and forth, but not much that's useful to you or answering your questions.
Sorry it's all got a bit messy here!
What was the main question you wanted to ask in the thread? Looking for the next way to turn? Or did you want to know about anything specific with thyroid or vitamins?
She has Hashimoto's, so the conversation is relevant to her and another post she started. Her FT3 is too low. She is not converting T4 to T3, which likely accounts for many of her symptoms, as well as low vitamin levels. The problem with these tests is that these are not all cellular level tests. If you really want to know your levels, test cellular levels, not serum.
She's not deficient, but most are low in the range. Plus, these are mainly serum level tests, which don't tell you what you need to know. Throwing a bunch of vitamins down based on some of these serum tests could lead to disaster. Cellular level tests will tell the truth of the matter, such as, test MMA, not serum B12. Ferritin tested by itself is also completely inconclusive. You need to look at a the complete iron panel. 50 ferritin for some people might be fine. Randomly forcing ferritin to the top of the level, without testing a complete iron panel could really ruin your body. The rest of the iron panel could be indicating iron toxicity. Without testing iron in it's entirety, a person is only guessing at their iron status by viewing ferritin as a standalone. It's not recommended to mess with supplementing extra iron unless you have a complete iron panel to evaluate full iron status.
Her Vitamin D is in the middle of the range. It could be higher. If the range is 50-75, I'm not sure why it's noted in her results that her D is sub-optimal. D does not have to be at the top of the range, but it's best to be 75% or so.
I completely don't see the value in just taking one vitamin at a time. Doesn't make sense to me. Her serum numbers are already low. Best recommendation is to test serum B12 (methylmylonic acid, or MMA), get an iron panel, increase D consumption, take folate (or if you've tested MTHFR and have that gene activated, do not take synthetic folic acid, take an activated form, like methylfolate, etc).
Sweet heart , take a supplement called Cellgevity for 60 days or more , you will forget about all those craps the doctors are giving you . Remember to take garlic on an empty stomach often too . It worked for me and I believe it will work for you too . I don't know what religion you belong to but as a Christian meditation and praying the Rosary really helped me . I hope you get well .
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If a doctor doesn't listen to what I am saying, I'm out of there. If a doctor can't read and interpret my labs correctly, I'm out of there. If a doctor can't prescribe the medication that I need and do best on, I'm out of there. Life is too short to mess around! 
Help with supplements please
Took Doctor a week to look at my vitamin results, should I supplement before seeing Doctor?
Help with supplements please
Losing hope with vitamin D 
Help with supplements please
