Low T3/high daytime cortisol - , crying out for your help, now suicidal:(

To cut a long story short, after 7 months of hell and not getting anywhere I am now extremely depressed with suicide thoughts and thinking of ending it.  You my friends  are now my ONLY hope or that's it for me.

Can anyone who has or had low T3 tell me whether they have/had severe symptoms of anxiety/panic attacks and suicide thoughts which decreased after adding some T3 to their daily regime?

Went hyper last sept with t4 hitting 28.20 (12-22) in jan. T3 was 4.44 (3.1-6.8) and tsh 0.04 (0.27-4.20). Good ferritin n b12 levels.

Last ten yrs have always been on 150mcg levo. Reduced by 25mcg after results.

Had severe anxiety, panic n nausea and despite reducing t4 stll felt ill and losing weight.

Feb results t4 19.63, t2.88, tsh 1.28. Ferritin good and b12 good at 828 <140.

March results t4 19.56, t3 2.74, tsh 1.81. B12 dropped to 395 so supplemented again.

April results t4 20.68, t3 2.84, tsh 2.55. Ferritin good, b12 up to 440.

Currently alternating between 75mcg-100 cus have lost nearly 2 stone.

Also had rt3 test done and as suspected its high 0.77 (0.14-0.54)

Daytime cortisol levels through roof giving me anxiety,panic,depression, nausea etc but levels do drop nearly every evening when my symptoms more or less disappear and i can function. From moment i wake thru to evening, symptoms are debilitating. Gp gave me beta blockers and diazepam to help. Also been on seroxat for 15yrs which was brill for me but doesnt work now. Also post meno, no period now for 3 yrs.

Been seeing endo privately for couple of months who saw straight away i wasnt converting and mentioned t3 but he was concerned it would make my anxiety worse cus of high cortisol levels, so he concentrated on adrenals first. Had big nuclear medicine scan and mri on pit gland. Mri showed 2mm lesion but apparently normal according to pit gland specialist. Have had loads of bloods and 24hr urine collections done which show raised cortisol levels. Only med he prescribed to help lower is not licensed in this country (he is german). Been trying to lower levels myself with holy basil and diet ,(which is very poor in day due to severe nausea). I just pick at stuff to make sure something in my stomach and in evenings when my levels lower i can eat for england.

Endo wad thinking cushings but pit gland specialist said no. My gp is of no help and all doors have now been closed and i am left to cope alone again. I have raised the ? of t3 again with endo but he hasnt come back to me. He reckons my thyroid is ok and its just stress related which is making me so ill. He did say stress levels fo affect t3 levels and go lower, especially seen in hosp patients who have jyst had ops. 

Still have to gave ultrasound on thyroid but my climbing tsh levels are now concerning me as i dont know what it means!!!! My t3 is obviously too low and i dont know what to do anymore.

Gp has prescribed me fluoxetine which i started 3 dys ago. All i am doing is popping pills with no definitive answers as to what is going on. As i have deteriorated since all this started 7mths ago i am suicidal every day now due to the neverending symptoms and gp thinks i should be admitted into mental health unit!!!

Could all this be just down to t3 in thr end, although my depression did start up this time last yr due to stress.

YOU are now my only hope my friends. I cant exist like this anymore, i have tried very hard for months to get to the bottom of it and help myself but i get worse by the day and gave no will or courage to go on. Have already been in touch with that place in switzerland where i can end my life, even know how much the flight will be.

Can anyone out there offer me any help as to whether all this is just as a result of low t3 or whether it may well all be down to stress and maybe i should be admitted?

This will be my last ever post here as i dont feel i can ask anything else, have come to the end of the road now with nothing else to be checked or tested :(

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118 Replies

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  • Yes.  Plain and simple yes.  I have had moments of complete and utter despair when l couldn't see another way out other then to end it - thus making life better for everyone that has to put up with me and for me.  Except... it'll literally destroy anyone left behind and in moments of clarity, it just isn't the answer.

    Life improves dramatically when you have proper t3 levels.  I'm still very tired and fat etc etc but your brain brightens up and you feel calmer, more rational and happier. 

    I promise you.

    How long have you been on t3?  what are your recent test results? xxx

  • Havent had any yet, endo wouldnt start me on any cus of firstly looking into adrenals (high cortisol). He was of the opinion the t3 might make my symptoms worse

  • I know that my first term of university I started T3 and my motivation to socialise increased - I was struggling with sleep but became overall happier and slim. Now I'm gaining weight back and my mood is less stable and I'm still taking T3. Interestingly though I ran out last week and plunged into a hell of depressive anxious thoughts but that may also be caused by my impending final exams. 

  • Jeffner,  is there anyone you can talk to or get a hug from?

    I'm posting the Samaritan's no:-

    116 123

    I know that suicide can make sense - total sense when you're so low you've hit rock bottom but honestly, it's this ruddy illness that's making you think that way, not *you*,  PLease understand this, don't let it get the better of you. xxxx

  • It has, have tried everything and just getting worse

  • Tell us what you're on and any results you have.  The mine of information on here is incredible. 

    Have you got the energy to do that?  Please. xxxx

  • I have updated my post

  • Thank you lovely. xxx

  • jefner your horrible condition is making you feel this way. You need to talk to someone and the Samaritans are great, trained to be non judgemental people. Please reach out to someone and don't let the possible shame you might be feeling in contemplating this step prevent you from sharing with the people who love you - and there are some, trust me. None of us are islands, however much we might want that to be the case ( often when we are anyway ill )

    ((((jefner))))

  • I have reached to everyone, there in no where else to go

  • Anti depressants raise cortisol.  This is how they really work.  This is the benefit most people get from them.  So the anti D's will be artificially raising cortisol.  cortisol and thyroid hormones work together.  cortisol sucks onto a thyroid T3 hormone and pulls it into the cells.  If you have too little cortisol you can't get enough T3 into the cells.  If you have too much cortisol it can suck up all the T3 so you have nothing left to work with.

    Thyroid levels if good will give normal levels of cortisol (not high or low).  Low thyroid people often have low cortisol or high cortisol.  This relationship is difficult to get rebalanced.  Thats why the GP's just don't want to know.  There are so many variables.

    The only way to get better is to monitor the body and your mental state and make small adjustments.  

    Do you have thyroid antibodies meaning you may have hashimotos disease.  This can be much harder to balance up if so.

    I would trial T3 your self as an addition to the T4.  always use the smallest dose which would be 5mcg amounts (1/4 tablet is a 20mcg tablet).  See how 5mcg works and then see what difference taking that 5mcg at different times of the day work for you.  T3 can be more effective if taken at different times of the day because the cortisol levels differ during the day.  You can try in the morning, then the next day after lunchtime, then late afternoon and then at bedtime.

    Bedtime is the best time to also take your T4.  This better replicates when we make our own T4 production (when we go to sleep).  Are you waking in the middle of the night ?  If so T4 at bedtime should work better.  The same can be applied to T3, but there is a chance T3 will be more stimulating.  Paul Robinsons has worked out an early morning dosing routine for T3,  This means you take the T3 a few hours before your official wake up.  Essentially T4 dosing at bedtime is replicating the same principles here.

    Trial and error is the way forward.  Use the GP for the supplies and then work out your own dosing routine.  You are doing this with vitamins already, so why not just go for it with the hormones.  This is the only way to get better and it can take along time of careful changes.

    Identify any positive signs and try and work out why that was a positive change. e.g., if T3 taken later in the day worked better it maybe because there is less cortisol around to suck it all up, so you get a steady supply into the cells and you feel good.

  • Yes i have antibodies. How does taking t4 at bedtime make a diff to r3 levels?

  • I would also trail LDN.  Since being on it, I have just had a feeling of well being.  It raises endorphin levels and they (doctors who love the stuff) believe it resets the immune system.

    There is still stuff out there to try - things like LDN that aren't on most HCP's radar as it's not licenced and they have no imagination.

  • I wondered about ldn, what us it supposed to do?

  • No-one's quite sure... :)

    In low doses, it's been found to simply to reset people's immune systems. 

    I can PM you the place where I had a telephone consult with a private GP.  He raves about the stuff and has had great results in people with Hashi's (like you and me).

    I've been on it over a week.  Initially, I had headaches and was very tired but that's to expected apparently as I've relied so much on pain relief for migraines.  Despite the initial side effects, I still felt quite pleasent in myself and reasonable.  I did cry a bit and get weepy but that lasted a couple of days.

    I'm posting a link of a post on here by someone whom I sure won't mind:-

    healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

  • Ok so you have hashis, which means you need to look into diet related options to help get on top of the issues.  Hashis patients have a tougher time than just basic under active.

    RT3 is a normal function of the body and is often too closely looked at.  It is high because the body is not processing the T3 efficiently.  The cause can be a whole host of things, but very often it is due to adrenal function and high/low cortisol.  

    I think you may have high RT3 levels because the body is trying to low down your uptake of T3 because you don't have much of it and/or it is getting sucked up too quickly.

    So T3 should help to supply what the body needs.  Also look into liver function because this is where we convert the T4 to T3.  Poor liver function is often a big cause of low T3 levels.

  • Liver is fine

  • I eat clean but not enuff during the day due to symptoms

  • I also think you need to supplement with some Zinc as zinc is needed for decent conversion from t4 - t3.

    Now there are supplements for adrenal support and some people self-medicate with hydocortisone tablets but that's out of my area of experience.

  • I do take supps inc 10mg zinc

  • You can go up to a maximum of 20mg.  Take 20mg!

  • What diff will that make

  • It will probably be more effective at converting the T4 to T3. x

  • My body is storing it instead tho

  • I'll have to bow to your and someone else's knowledge on that one jefner - I've lost many a brain cell! :)

    How are you feeling?

  • Really bad day with symptoms esp with nice weather. Cant tolerate too much noise and its been awful around me today with no where to get away from it cus of agoraphobia as well

  • I am sorry that you feel so sick.I can understand your situation as I am sailing in the same boat.

    If you have hashimoto's then are you on a gluten free diet? If you read about gluten and it's side effects,you would be surprised to see that it causes depression and even suicidal thoughts.

    Basically leaky gut is behind all this.

    Always remember that no matter what happens,you need to love yourself..you should always come first.

    You are very strong hun....talk to yourself and listen to yourself and do what would make you happy.

    Love you xxx 

  • Thank u for your support. Yes i have hashis and gf since jan. Tested for leaky gut and ok

  • you HAVE leaky gut, if you have Hashi's!  What kind of test did you do?

  • Never had any issues with my gut even after being tested

  • i was told that for many, the only symptom of leaky gut, is having an autoimmune disease, not actual gi/gut symptoms.

  • Incorrect

  • Isabella Wentz and all Functional Medicine doctors believe you do not have to have stomach symptoms, to have leaky gut and having autoimmune disease DOES mean you DO have a leaky gut.  Autoimmune Diseases like MS, Hashi's Lupus, etc..can all be gotten rid or or put into remission, by healing the gut and diet changes.  You can think what you want, but in desperate times, i try anything.  You are there now!  Apparently you didn't read Dr. Kelly Brogan's info on foods effecting the brain and how antidepressants cause/increase suicidal ideation.  I am doing all of this, hitting all bases, before i commit suicide.  

  • I am sorry but I am not going to argue you with you.  I told you I have been tested and I do NOT have it, how many more times.  I have Wentz's book and have also read it

  • Don't give up..

  • trying not to and thank you for your support xx

  • I know i am not much help and grumpy too, sorry.. I am trying the 30-90 day Autoimmune Paleo Reset, because i cannot get to The Pituitary Center. My Pituitary has become damaged and i am low on Cortisol and possibly GH, but cannot get proper diagnosis and treatment here.  

    I feel like i am starving, but i am doing it to see if it helps, rather than die.  I am not kidding.  I was ready to give up last week.  I feel guilty because of my son, he needs me.  

    I feel like ending it all,  multiple times a year.  

    Do you have kids or a husband?  May be a stupid question, i know.   Sometimes they actually can make you worse..lol!!

  • no need to apologise hon really, we are all ill or we wouldn't be here.  I have been GF since January purely because I read it could help get my antibodies down.  I have never had stomach problems, I could eat anyone under the table lol.  It's just with the symptoms I get severe nausea and I can't eat properly.  I pick at the right foods throughout the day just to keep something in my stomach and come the evening when the symptoms have subsided, I could eat anything and everything. 

    My recent MRI scan on my pit gland showed a 2mm lesion but according to the specialist it's quite normal and he wants me to have another scan in around 6 months.

    It must be difficult being ill and looking after a family, although at least you have people around you whereas I don't so both scenarios are difficult.  I never married and have no kids, my pets are my kids but I lost my 20yr old cat a few weeks ago and I haven't even started mourning his loss yet which I feel guilty about.  Am just trying to keep my stress levels down

  • What do you think about a pituitary mass being normal? 

     I think doctors need to be shot.  This mass could very well be an ACTH producing tumour, making high cortisol, although intermittently.  I have a friend who has just been told to diet and exercise more, by a supposed excellent Endocrinology Group.  She has the buffalo hump, red striae, fat, high blood sugar and cholesterol, headaches, intermittant fevers, severe insomnia, passing out, heart rhythm irregularities.   etc..  Cushings can be cyclical and needs many tests to diagnose it, sometimes, multiple  urine collections for 1 month or more...  She was told she did not have Cushing's after one inconclusive and one normal test.  They will not do an mri.  I think she is going to take their word for it and let it go.  I have to let it go, myself.  But, it drives me crazy!!  Theses doctors are just criminal!!

    My daughter moved away, my son is ill too.  I broke up with my boyfriend of 8 years, when i became suicidal last week, when my son took a turn for the worse.  

    I know about these dear kitties..i have lost my Oscar and Buddy in the last 2 years.  It all feels like it will never end doesn't it?  

    Please..the pituitary thing could be such a huge player in how we feel!  Can you get another opinion on the growth?

    I Am trying to get well enough to travel to Boston to their Pituitary Center.

    My food does not digest and then i am breathless and have to vomit to breath again.  Since 2009.  I am still heavier than i should be.  Hormones ..ours are screwed up, i am afraid!!

  • I have had several 24hr urine collection tests + others. Endo was thinking cushings which is why i had so many tests relating to that but the pit specialist he referred me to looked at all scans and results and said no thankfully because having cushings would be worse as its not easy to treat or manage

  • as long as you are satisfied with the answer, then that is what is important.  Some have high cortisol from being Hypo too.  

  • this will give you more info on rt3

    tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html

  • Have been reading some good reviews about taking my levo at night

  • i would get some t3,..if you don't convert well, how will that help?  In the mean time do as kelly brogan md says on diet, dairy ..cut it.

  • Thank u so much for your kind words. It doesnt help living on my own with little support around me. Its debilitating and i have hung on for 7mths now. The symptons are too debilitating to live with for much longer. I have tried hard to get well for months researching etc, and the reaching out to specialists for help, but all doors now closed. I know i wont be able to come back from this now, i am too weak mentally and physically

  • I wish i could believe that hon but i have tried very hard. Just wished i had people close to me to have a little more patience and some encouraging words to spur me on but i am left on my own all day and every day with just my negative thoughts feeding more. Think gp is right, i am a danger to myself now and should be admitted. Was hoping my post would generate answers that what u am feeling is most probably due to low t3. At least i would get the answer i am looking for :(

  • How bad did u feel before self medicating? What symptoms did u have?

  • But Jefner, people keep telling you that what you are feeling is down to the low T3, and that taking T3 - either with or without T4 - will help you. Your T3 level is too low. You need T3. Why Don't you just try it?

    You are not converting, your TSH has risen, you need to take T3. I'm telling you, here and now, your problems are due to your low T3.

    For you to feel well, and fit, and happy, everything needs to be optimal. But the best starting place is with T3. If your doctors won't give it to you, buy it on-line. Or buy NDT because that contains T3.

    You could try taking T4 at night, that works better for some people. But you still need to take some T3 because you cannot convert the T4 very well.

    There could be a lot of reasons for you not being able to convert well. Could be the high cortisol, or the low B12. But finding out why is going to take time, and you need the T3 now. Or as soon as you can possibly get it.

    T3 really is the basis of everything. The basis of life. So, please try it before deciding to do anything irreversable. OK? Just try? :)

    Sending big, big hugs. xxx

  • Hi goosey, feeling very very ill today. How would i dose t3 and how long would it take to see a difference? Was thinking of contacting dr peatfield for a phone consultation

  • I Don't think Dr Peatfield is giving phone consultations at the moment, I believe he's in hospital.

    How would you dose the T3? Well, as with all hormones, it's best to start low, and build up gradually. Start with, say 10 mcg, divided into two doses - morning and bedtime - with your T4. Stay on that for a couple of weeks, then reduce your T4 by 25 mcg and increase your T3 to 15 mcg. And continue like that.

    It's all trial and error, I'm afraid, no-one can say what exactly is going to work for you, personally - only you know how you feel. But, that's a good starting base. But that is just a suggestion, and you would need to adapt it to how you feel. I cannot say unequivocably that that is going to be the best starting dose for you. But just try it.

    How long it will take you to feel better is anybody's guess. But, given how low your T3 is, you should notice a difference straight away. However, it will take time to build up to an optimal level - and an optimal level is the one at which you feel fully well, and all the symptoms are gone. You do need to be patient - I can't stress that enough - but with the knowledge that you will feel well eventually.

    Every journey starts with just one step. And this could be yours. :) 

  • Clutter suggested i try a 6.25 dose with my t4. Would i not have to lower my t4 as my endo said 80% t4, 20% t3

  • In what connection did your endo say that? Did he say that that's what the gland produces? If so, it has little bearing on what you actually need, because most T3, in a healthy person, comes from conversion. The body converts as much as it needs. I Don't think it sticks to rigid percentages. But endos do like to bring everything down to solid figures. They just have no poetry in their souls! lol What is needed is what suits you best.

    However, 75/100 is more or less a starter dose for some people. So, I Don't think you really need to lower it to begin with. But, see how you feel. It could be that you can't tolerate T4 at all. In which case, you need T3 only.

    Well, 6.25 is a handy figure, because it's a quarter of a 25 mcg tablet - which is what you're going to get if you buy it on-line. But, then again, it's not set in stone. You have to see how you feel.

  • He just said that that is normally the percentages when taking t4 and t3. Omg i feel so ill today, my head feels like its about to explode and the suicide thoughts are strong. Have just emailed my gp  urgently about a script for t3, and how with everyone's help here, i plan to try it with or without his support because i am too close to the edge now of taking my own life. If he doesnt prescribe me some today i wonder if a trusted member of the group could post me a small amouny of theirs so i can get started as i believe most order theirs from abroad and i cant wait days and days i feel that bad

  • Well, it might be an idea to remind your GP that psychiatrists often give their patients T3 for depression, because that's what works best.

    I'm not sure you're allowed to ask people to send you stuff on the forum. It would have to be by PM if you know someone that is taking T3. But, in any case, do ask for recommendations of sites where you can safely buy it for yourself. Answers by PM only.   

  • the t4  and psych meds, i would say , are what is standing in the way on any progress.  

  • try it for 8 years!  unable to digest food, weak, dizzy and dark vision episodes, breathless episodes, trembling, high heart rate episodes,  Rapid weight gain, rapid weight loss, acne, fluid retention, blurred vision, vomiting..8 years of frickin Hell!   There is a way out!  Please read up on the psych meds.  

  • Dear Jefner. I'm very sorry to hear that you are feeling so down. Please know that you are not alone. It's really positive that you have come on here to talk about this because there are many, many people here who care about you and will do anything we can to help and support you. Please do reach out to Samaritans, I think it would help enormously just to be able to chat to somebody. It's a free call: 116 123.

    Thinking of you and sending big hugs x

  • Thank u josie, i have spoken to so many people but no one, yes no one, really cares enough anymore :( most people are just too busy with their own lives, inc the so called specialists. I even admitted myself into A&E a few wks ago feeling suicidal, very frightening thoughts i couldnt control. After five hrs of waiting, a useless junior doc spent about three mins with me and sent me home back to cope on my own

  • I care about you and so do lots of other people here. There are definitely people and things that can help you x

  • I cant find anything to help me despite trying so hard. I feel let down by the professionals who now seem to think that i am just a depressed nutjob. I just want a damn professional to do their job properly. I have begged them all for something to lower my cortisol levels, but i get nothing back :( it has to end somewhere josie and i think i am now there. I tried but failed

  • There is always something new to try. For example, have you tried going sugar and grain free and eating lots of fats instead? Have you tried selenium, magnesium, vitamin C supplements? Have you tried yoga classes or mindfulness apps? There is loads of stuff to try. I'm sure you will find something to help you feel better X

  • Here is info on mindfulness apps:

    mindful.org/free-mindfulnes...

    My daughter has been using the Headspace free 10 day trial and has found it really helps her to relax and wind down before bed, She has also started yoga, which has been good for fitness and relaxation.

  • Am pretty housebound with the agiraphobia now n dont drive after taking tranquilisers. I have 500mg slow release vit c, vit d, b complex, magnesium, fish oil n omega 3. I am gluten free and only have natural sugars and high protein cus of cortisol. Just cant get my daytime levels down which give me all the symptoms inc bad nausea so dont eat much in the day. When evening comes i always feel better and eat lots cus cortisol levels have dropped

  • Here is an article about the importance of selenium, both for protecting the thyroid from damage and in converting T4 to T3:

    chriskresser.com/selenium-t...

    This is a very good article on other things to try:

    verywell.com/ways-feel-live...

  • it is indeed a terrible thing that doctors are doing to patients these days.  No return calls, long waits..and lots of BS, drugs, that cover symptoms or make you worse..i know how you feel, i live it every day and i am very depressed myself.  

  • Jefner,

    T3 being below range will increase anxiety and depression.  Your endo may be right that adding T3 will increase cortisol but he could be wrong and you may find it relieves some of the anxiety and depression you are suffering.  I don't know what your attitude to self medicating is but I think it must be an option worth trying and certainly better than suicide.

  • I was hoping you would post clutter. Endo didnt tell me cortisol would rise adding t3. He was concerned my anxiety levels would increase, unless thats what u meant hunny?  Any idea y my tsh has shot up? Been reading other posts on diff forums that a lot feel better taking their t4 at night instead of mornings. Y i dont know but they say they do feel better. Wonder whether its something i could try? Just looking for some relief of symptoms during each dy to cope because i cant go on like this much longer, i get worse by the day and hanging on by a thread now :(

  • I'm so sorry you are feeling so low but please hang in there and keep talking/asking questions/trying different things on this forum. Life is so precious and the next thing you try might just be the thing that brings you out of this low point.

    I am new to all this so cannot really offer any practical advise but lots of other more knowledgable people are doing that already looking at all of the replies. 

    Regarding taking T4 at night, give it a go. I don't have the issues you have..just primary hypothyroidism with no major complications and just trying NDT. However when I first started on T4 I was feeling terrible and switched to taking it at night. I felt so much better literally the next day so I am convinced it is more effective when taken at night. I have no idea why but it worked for me and also made it easier to take other meds without any conflict.

    Please don't give up..big hugs xx

  • Have been trying hard for  months hun. I will try levo at night instead. Cant do anymore to help myself, i know when i am beaten

  • Jefner,

    Yes I meant that T3 might increase anxiety, but it might also reduce it.  Only way to tell is to try adding some to Levothyroxine for a few months. 

    TSH shoots up when you are undermedicated. 

    Try taking Levothyroxine at bed time but make sure it's two hours away from food and drinks.  Research shows it can be more effective in reducing TSH, possibly because of better absorption at night.

  • Sorry if I am repeating something someone has already said, but some antidepressants can cause suicidal thoughts.  I am not in any way belittling the seriousness of your symptoms, but it could be that the suicidal thoughts are a side effect of the antidepressants.  

  • Was having them before i started them! High cortisol levels are causing me most if the anxiety all through each day but late in the evenings i feel much btr

  • amen to that!!!

  • Hi Jefner , Sorry to hear how terrible you are feeling. Try to remember that most people here have been there at some point and still are sometimes. You are among friends who understand here and you can post on here and rant and ask questions as much as you want. Just keep asking questions, there will be an answer, it will come, and this time will pass. Sending you a massive hug and best wishes. Take care xxxxxxx 

  • Thank u hun, just wish i knew how to get better, i no longer know which is y i feel its time to call it a day

  • Have a soak in a nice bubble bath and light a few candles. Have you got any lavender? Put some in and if you haven't got any try to get some as it relaxes you. Then get snug in bed and read some inspirational quotes on line or a nice easy book, and have a chamomile tea if you have one or the nearest thing. Tomorrow is another day and you have no idea what it will bring. xxx

  • Doesnt work i an afraid, feel btr in evenings wen my cortisol levels have dropped. Its as soon as i wake up and all thru day i have the bad symotoms

  • Hi there.   Your among friends here, each of us experiencing rotten health issues

    in varying ways at some point.  A problem shared helps.   My personal thought

    Is your T4 has been high on on Levo, but T3 low.  It could be your not 

    converting T4 to T3 as it should,   So although you have high levels T4, you

    are lacking enough T3 at cellular level i.e, hypothyroid.  Your T4 will converting

    into RT3 i.e. your high levels RT3.   If this is the case (a decent Dr will need

    to confirm), then I would imagine you would need to lower the intake of

    Levo & include a little T3, as it's the T3 that is the active hormone.  If Levo

    isn't converting to T3, and you have been taking for sometime, then a lack

    of adequate Thyroid hormone in itself is a stressor.  And your adrenals

    will be working overtime trying to compensate for low thyroid situation.

    Think I would consider a second opinion from another private Dr.  

    Maybe try a very gentle 'calmer' - something like Rescue Remedy which

    may just take edge off anxiety.   Split your Thyroid doses during day.

    If a Dr introduces T3 meds, then take your T3 later in the morning, it

    can help reduce the Cortisol.  The loss of weight could be adrenal 

    stress.  Has anyone considered NDT meds instead of Levo, which you

    may find works better for you.   I'm not a Dr, so above is just my own

    thoughts.  You just need the right meds & a Dr that will monitor you

    on them.   So, although you feel as bad as you do, I think you can

    feel optimistic about maybe making a change in your meds & feeling

    better.   

  • Thinking about you Jeffner and hoping you are feeling strong enough to try some of the useful suggestions above.

    Surely worth a try as opposed to ending it.

    Big hugs xx

  • I had low mood, nausea and loss of appetite, plus sort of paranoia attacks - but my cortisol is always low end of normal. As I increase my T3, I have got a lot better. I still get the symptoms (mostly without paranoia) if I overdo it physically. I'm also on biohrt (with DHEA) which definitely helps, too.  (I was almost calmly thinking about killing myself before the HRT). Any anti-D made of fluoride will make thyroid function worse. Prozac also increases the risk of suicide.

  • Not from the reviews i have been reading

  • Just type "Prozac suicide" into a search engine and read the papers and articles. Happened to a friend of mine, too. And antidepressantsfacts.com/20... However, increasing you TSH might flog your thyroid hard enough to raise your FT4 and Ft3 levels until the gland gives up (thus explaining temporary relief).

    There is no test for low/high serotonin, so SSRIs are treating something you might not even have.

    I found meditation helpful also.

  • I have been on seroxat for 15yrs and it was a huge help to me, banished all my anxiety symptoms

  • I take Prozac ,doesn't seem to do much but have never had suicdal thoughts since being on them

  • kellybroganmd.com/7-facts-a...

    You are possibly not feeling strong enough to cope with too much information.  I would sign up for her Newsletters and buy the book if you can :-)  I have been very impressed with her writing ......

    Be well soon .....

  • I don't know you but my heart breaks for you 💔 I hope you get some resolve soon, I think everyone on here has felt low at some point trying to figure it all out and get the relevant people to take notice. I genuinely hope you find peace with yourself and the help you need and I think I can speak for everyone on here that you'll get a tonne of support here ✌🏻️💛

  • thank  you crazy, I am so very alone with this as I live alone and left alone with all my paranoia and negative and suicidal thoughts.  I don't know how to get past this anymore and so close to ending it.  Have emailed Dignatas in Switzerland again because it feels the only option for me

  • Have you tried cognitive therapy? Just an idea. I have felt like you are feeling and I'm in therapy and have been for a year and it's really helped me a lot 💛

  • I was in therapy this time last year but she stopped it half way through because she said I needed a more intense one.  They have been messing me around since October last year and every appointment they made they cancelled, 5 in all.  Have a private session tomorrow but it's a lot of money

  • Jenfer

    You have had lots of advice from many members and you may consider what I am asking you as stupid.

    What brand of T3 are you taking?

    I see that you are on other medications as well.

    David Healey's website rxisk.org  are offering a free report. If you can mange  the questions do proceed and then give it  to your GP.

    David is a well respected authority on ADRs . (Worldwide)

    I suffer from severe adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and I was prescribed  T3 by Perrigo.

    Like you I was in a mess. I was always crying, depressed and agitated.

    I stopped after 8 days and I felt much improved.

    Thyroid dysfunction can cause serious problems for thyroid patients.

    I have had many serious ADRS over the years and nearly died one one ocassion  and now regard any drug as suspect.

    It is obvious you are very unwell, if you can manage to download  Thyroid dysfunction and drug interactions from-----

    pharmaceutical-journal.com/...

    ----it may help you to understand.

    I am afraid that adverse drug interactions are not given the prominence they deserve, it appears that it is one of the last things doctors consider. Instead you are sujected to a cascading drug regime, like I was ( the last AWFUL experiences was in 2014).

    Please, do  take care.

    EM

  • Medication (or doctors) is something like the 6th highest cause of death in America

  • Sadly, you're being a bit optimistic, Linlow.

    Medical care is actually the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA, not the 6th.

    chriskresser.com/medical-ca...

  • sorry ;) must be out of date (tschhh, typical!!)

  • You will find the following links very interesting.

    •    MEDICAL ERRORS, THE FDA, AND PROBLEMS WITH PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

    cancure.org/12-links-page/1...

    •    Drug Industry Operates Like Organised Crime – But Kills More People Than The Mob – Says Dr. Peter Gøtzsche of the Cochrane Center in Copenhagen, Denmark – 200,000 Americans pa Killed Following Doctors’ Instructions – Prescription Drugs 3rd Leading Cause of Death In West

    childhealthsafety.wordpress...

    •    Prescription pills are Britain’s third biggest killer: Side-effects of drugs taken for insomnia and anxiety kill thousands. Why do doctors hand them out like Smarties?

    dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

  • Absolutely!

    They put a friend of mine on chlorpromazine after he had a stroke because he was confused.  He ended up falling and breaking his hip trying to get away from the nightmare delusions it caused.  I warned his daughter it was not suitable but she wouldn't question it.

    I used to have another UK link that gave a really good breakdown but I can't find it now.

  • linlow

    My brain is a little overworked at the moment,  what was the link that gave you a 'good breakdown' on what?

    EM

  • sorry, didn't mean to confuse. The link I had gave a breakdown of leading causes of death in the UK and an interesting write-up on it but I'll be blessed if I can find it now :(

  • Oh my, I know how you feel. Switzerland is on my mind too.  I am not suicidal,  I just want to die as living this way is not worth it. I am just so done and I feel I deserve to get a closure without suffering.  

    I have low t3 too,  but no one cares. 

  • U feel exactly the same as me. I will try t3 as a last effort but if there is no improvement i will b putting myself out of my misery because i cannot exist in this way for much longer, i am too weak mentally and physically now. No one can say i havent tried to get well!

  • Yeah.  It's hard to stay optimistic feeling rotten 24/7.  

    I bet t3 will resolve some of your symptoms as that low t3 can't make one feel very good. 

    That itself is a huge stress factor.  

    Btw you mentioned about eating a lot of protein.  That can cause high cortisol too.  

    Like other people have said give T3 a fair chance to work before giving up. No point going on self medicating if not doing it properly. 

    I hope it works for you! 

  • Jefner, so many people on this forum can relate to how you're feeling but TRUST ME once optimally medicated you will look back on this time and think "thank god I didn't end it all". 

    Please keep fighting xx 

  • I am too weak mentally and physically to fight on for much longer. Will try t3 but if it doesnt work then i wont let my suffering continue. If i could be prescribed something to get my high daytime cortisol levels down, that would go a long way in helping cus its those symptoms i suffer for 12hrs a day that are debilitating but no one has come up with any help on that. Have tried holy basil

  • Try the T3 and give it a good go, not just for a week or so. I've heard it makes a huge difference. I know it's hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel. Thyroid patients all live in their own version of hell! I've been diagnosed with hashimoto's for 6 years and still aren't on medication because they say my bloods are fine, but I suffer multiple awful symptoms and spend half the time thinking I'm going mad and having doctors tell me it's anxiety!! It's so infuriating because I get pain in my joints - is that anxiety?? Course not! I get my thyroid gland hurt and swell - is that anxiety?? No!! But here I am, no medication and suffering! My brother also has an enlarged thyroid and has been housebound for 8 years due to no diagnosis. His hair falls out in clumps, his heart races, he can't sleep, he suffers!!!! Worse than me.... But his blood test isn't bad enough for the doctors to take any notice! I know how you're feeling trust me, I cry - often! But you CANNOT GIVE UP! Please ........ 

  • Jefner

    You must forgive me thinking you were on T3.

    I forgot my own advice i.e. not to post when on painkillers –may I try again?

    I had private tests done by Genova Diagnostics and my rT3 was towards the top of the range and  24 hr urine tests + other blood tests  showed that I was not converting T4 to T3.

    Prior to that, I was informed some time ago that my ferritin levels had dropped to 11 ( I have now got the levels up to 29)----- This was after a consultant had warned my GP that my levels were borderline at 19.

    On top of that I have now discovered that my serum creatinine had been below range for a long time 38/39 --–range 51-207.

     TPA varied between 354 and  646.

    I discovered that when taking specific prescription drugs it can destabilise thyroid stability.

    I was also given Tegretol, Domperidine and Trimethoprim. The interaction of these 3 drugs with Erfa just about finished me off.

    So this is why I suggested Rxisk to you .

    When you had the MRI scan were you given gadolinium ( a contrast medium) ?

    I had a very severe reaction to a contrast medium during a CT scan and refused gadolinium for a MRI scan because of this. The consultant neurologist told me afterwards that gadolinium can have the same reactions for patients as Ioversol (CT scans).

    Hashimoto /Graves disease patients are susceptible to iodine/low iodine based contrast mediums.

    I hope my attempt this time round will make sense.

  • Go here..scroll down, search the site..

    kellybroganmd.com/join-my-g...

    this is a psychiatrist who says it is our diet, not a mental problem.  If you have hashi's or low thyroid, then you have a gut problem.  An immune system problem and it effects the brain.  Listening to her videos and reading her site gave me hope for a better life.  I have been ill since the end of 2008, with no help from doctors.  I have lost all friends and family, but 1 son and a male friend who helps me get groceries and helps my son.  I am very isolated and alone myself.  I too get suicidal.  

  • Its a lonely life with thid disease isnt it. Had leaky gut test...negative.

  • what kind of test?  Stool at an Integrative or alternative doctor?  

  • yes..extremely lonely.  I am petrified of ending up in the psych unit again.  They pump you full of drugs.

  • the test(s) for leaky gut is not 100% infallible.  You don't agree with your doctors on other things they say, why be so adamant on this one? saragottfriedmd.com/leaky-g...

     Whether the test was negative or not treat yourself as if it was positive and see what difference it makes.   thescienceofeating.com/2015...

    Take a look at how adding kefir to your diet can help with a number of your issues.  Also look at coconut oil.  Its lauric acid content might help stabilise your thought processes.  You also need to research how you can proactively reduce your cortisol levels yourself.

    By the time you get through that lot you should be hitting your 'happy' time of day :)

  • you have got to be your own doctor, get the t3, treat yourself, rather than kill yourself.  

  • kellybroganmd.com/7-facts-a...

    please read and watch video's.    i think the psych meds are making you worse and suicidal..they can and DO CAUSE THIS!  It happened to me!!

  • I'm not sure what my levels were because my doctor at the time was not good, but yes, I was desperately suicidal. Unable to sleep, eat, tons of palpitations, anxiety, tremors, confusion, etc. It was intolerable and I was terrified that I did not feel myself and just wanted to die rather than lose myself. I did commit myself for a short period. I did not find it medically helpful, but I did feel I needed to go SOMEWHERE.

    Please don't give up. Thyroid problems can wreck absolute havoc. You are not crazy or at fault. Try and keep your stress level down as you figure things out.

  • Panic/anxiety attack was the first major symptom of my hypothyroid.  Hellish.  Symptoms did not abate until years later after I was diagnosed celiac and Hashi's.  I did not feel well until I went on T3.  Do you know about T3CM (stopthethyroidmadness.com)?   The adrenals need a number of things to function well, and one of them is sufficient T3

  • Hi Eddie, thanks for your response.  Yes I frequent the group for that site set up on Facebook which is where I learned more about adrenals and the different herbal stuff to help reduce my levels.  Do you solely take T3 or T4 as well.  How long after you started taking T3 did you start to feel a little better?

  • For a while, I had a terrible time with T4-only and with T3+T4.  Got the doc to put me on T3-only for over a year, that really smoothed things out.   Finally went back on T3+T4 after I had regained some ability to convert T4, but I'm still experimenting to find the optimum dose.  I seem to do better when my FT4 is low in the range, and FT3 is mid-range or better.  I'm currently on T3+T4=12.5+75, looking to change dose soon to 15+62.5.

  • I will be starting from scratch soon with my t3

  • While you are trying to figure out dosage, keep in mind that: Abbott says the full-replacement dose for T4-only is 1.7mcg/kg body weight.  We already know that the T3 power factor is 3-4.  And while I was on T3-only, I found that the full replacement dose for T3-only was (in my case) 0.82mcg/kg body weight.

  • Hi Jefner

    Sorry I have only just seen your post. I hope that things have got a little easier for you. You have had lots of good information from the very caring people on this site so I won't post a really long response. Just on the matter of high cortisol. I have high cortisol (I would shake if I couldn't park the car properly!) and I take Seriphos and also Swanson Women's Anti Stress (both available from Amazon). Take a look here moodcure.com/correcting_cor...

    I think I first got to the above website somehow via STTM but can't quite remember. Anyway these two things have helped me greatly. I admit I haven't done another cortisol test since but I don't have the flight response at the drop of a hat anymore. I still have it but not for minor trivial things.  I am like you, can't eat in the day then want everything in sight at night. However my sleep pattern is so much better now. I still fall asleep on the settee early but I then used to go to bed and lay wide awake. Now, when I can finally manage to lift myself from the settee and go to bed I do fall asleep and I feel that I am much more rested - I don't wake up as much - so I have put it down to these two supplements. They might not work for you but equally they might. Worth a try? Wishing you lots of love. 

    MP x

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