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Hello.

So Tuesday evening I went to see a different GP at my practice. The original GP was horrendous. There are many more adjectives I could use for him but then my post would not be permitted. I was so grateful that a friend had come with me or no one would have believed what the man said to me. Anyhoo it all boiled down to 'Hypochondriac' and 'Time waster'.

So yes, I admit I suffer with long term clinical depression and severe anxiety. I have done more or less continuously since I was eleven years old and my father killed himself. Also at eighteen years old I was attacked by a friend's dog who bite off a large chunk of my left cheek. So I was left disfigured and also developed agoraphobia for a while brought on by stares and comments from the public when I was out.

I did however turn it around as best as I could. I got married, I had surgery after two years, on my face so that although I have a scar overall my appearance was much better. I had children and lots of history. Same or similar story to all you good people on here. I lived and experienced life, often it was hard, sometimes good and occasionally wonderful.

Such a huge digression sorry please bear with.

So I have been feeling worse and worse and worse. I haven't even been able to post for a while now. I'm fatigue (well actually totally utterly Knackered). My anxiety is similar to the level of the Captain of the Titanic when he realises Yes that is an ICEBERG. My fibromyalgia is out of control, even my teeth hurt. And I will be truthful here. I have thought about suicide, I have thought about life quality and yes I am disgusted with myself before its said. I know I should be grateful to be alive. These thoughts though, they just jump into my head, its like I suddenly think about Chocolate, or a McDonalds. You see I'm not sitting here woe is me. There's a voice that whispers into my head and its never good.

So new GP. She seems Lovely. She didn't rush me and for all intents and purposes she seemed to be listening to me. She went through my blood test results (posted previously end of Sept) and explained them. I had not had T3 done nor Vitamin D because (apparently) the labs wont do them. Though she felt that my T4 at 15 and my TSH at 0.2 were good and if anything indicated I was perhaps more hyper then hypo?

I had a sub hysterectomy at age 41 which was in 2002. Both ovaries were left but also because of adhesions and endometriosis a part of my cervix was also left behind as it just could NOT be removed. My bladder was also found to be very damaged through the same and I had two catheters for six weeks after the operation.

She believes that ALL my symptoms appear to be down to the Menopause and not to do with Thyroid or similar issues. I have been reading information on Menopause after Hysterectomy. Apparently because I had a sub total hysterectomy I should have had at least a yearly blood test to check my hormone levels looking for oestrogen levels as I could have been suffering with silent ovarian failure. Never done of course, never even mentioned actually. After the hysterectomy I developed more endometriosis on one of my ovaries so I was given a monthly injection of an implant into my tummy which invoked a mini menopause to kill off the endometriosis. I was 42/43 at this point and it was horrendous but apparently worked. Around this time I was diagnosed with underactive thyroid. After this treatment I had gone up to 11stone (or more) I am 4ft 11" was utterly exhausted etc etc. I was on a LOW dose of thyroxine. I ended up going to Birmingham to see Dr Skinner who had my dosage increased and did try to liaise with my doctors back then. I was also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia just after this. I have had two operations for frozen shoulders, numerous operations for bladder and gynaecological reasons. I was sacked from my job. My partner of seven years left me. I ended up in hospital three times.

She is saying to me that if I use a HRT oestrogen only patch this will help. She also does not think that further investigation into my Thyroid and related issues will be the answer. If she is right then Fantastic how fabulous (You may be seeing I'm not 100% convinced) But do you know what. Also, if she is Right then that means I could have been Oestrogen Deficient for 10years or more possibly. If that is true then I have been put through Hell through nothing less then negligence and already I feel so so angry and that's not even been shown to be the case. I have now gained back two stone that I lost in 2013. I was down to eight stone four pounds when I moved to Thanet in Febuary 2013. Suddenly this year approx. eight months ago my weight just climbed and climbed. And my health got worse and worse. My last blood pressure reading was 200/186, my cholesterol is 7.6 and my weight is now ten stone. I am agreeing to the HRT patch because I am truly exhausted, weary and desperate. I am also scared. She does seem a lovely woman but I don't truly trust her or indeed any GP now. I am going to give this treatment a fair trail of up to three months. If things get worse or even just status quo then I will be in a stronger position to push for better in-depth blood tests and a referral.

I again apologise for the long winded story above. I would really appreciate hearing your opinions about this and perhaps if any of you ladies have had a similar experience. Perhaps there may be some of you that have had a positive outcome from HRT for the thyroid related symptoms as well.

Colleen

ps. Symptoms: Unexplained weight gain, exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, tooth pain, hot flushes, insomnia, depression, anxiety, headaches, memory loss, lapse of concentration, palpitations, deep aching in the bones........................

15 Replies

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  • Sorry to read of your difficult times :-( Has the GP tested your hormone levels ? - to establish how low the oestrogen is ? Surely that would be a logical step. If you are not low then adding more oestrogen is not the best idea in the world.

    Do you have any blood test results you could post here - with the ranges - then people will be able to help you more. Apologies - I have not read any of your earlier posts today. It does sound as if you could be under-medicated or possibly not converting the Levo/T4 into T3 - the most active thyroid hormone. There are more receptors for T3 in the brain than any other part of the body. So low T3 can cause you to have many symptoms including low mood. Anti-bodies Anti-TPO and Tg also need to be tested so you can rule out auto-immune thyroid illness - which is the most common form.

    Have you had your Ferritin - Folate - Iron - B12 tested ? Have you a copy of the results ? You can have the D3 tested privately quite cheaply with City Assays in Birmingham.

    Raised blood pressure and cholesterol also point to you being under-medicated - along with weight gain.

    I do think that giving women HRT has been a way of not dealing with the possible underlying causes - like untreated or undertreated thyroid. Also I think the surgery is awarded brownie points for prescribing certain drugs !

    I am not a Doc - click onto my name and have a read of my edited profile !! So read as much as you can so you can ask the right questions when with your GP - and also keep asking questions here....

    Do hope you soon feel stronger :-)

  • Hello Marz

    I did ask for blood test for oestrogen level but was told.it was pointless as the levels are constantly fluctuating. I agree with what you are saying. Yes I had other tests done end.of Sept and have posted them on here. No T3 level.though. lab refused. I have no finances at this time to pay privately. Her.net opinion was if anything I was hyper not.hypo. that I definitely do not.agree with. I'm going to give it a three week.try then.if nothing.is happening I.feel I.might be in a stronger position to argue. But then again maybe not if I'm realistic. They will not/cannot hear us.or except anything thyroid related. What is this medical bias towards thyroid related problems. I am at my wits end truly.

  • She obviously knows nothing about thyroid if she thinks a TSH of 0.2 is hyper! I Don't blame you for not trusting her.

    On the question of menopause and estrogen deficiency (I think you're more likely to be progesterone deficient if you are in menopause, but I'm no expert) can you not ask to be referred to a gynacologist? Surely it is their job to diagnose things like that.

  • Hi cc - couldn't see a B12 result ! How are you getting along with treating the Low Ferritin.... ?

  • They would not do tests for vitamin B or D. I pointed out the low ferritin and guess what. She said that's fine its within the range. I said but its at the lower end of the range. She said that's fine??? xx

  • ...so are you self treating with the iron ? There are some that are gentle on the tum I have read....

  • No I have IBS, Reflux and Hiatus Hernia and did not want to take chances on making myself feel even sicker. Plus on top of that I was waiting to ask GP about iron levels but she didn't prescribe anything indeed the opposite. Its a complete and utter minefield isn't it. I have no idea what to do.

    According to my Doctors I have not got a problem with Iron. Go figure hey extraordinary.

  • Hi coleencallinan, (Just a thought,)

    A member on Thyroid Uk recently put a link up which I have just printed off for a family member of mine who has Hiatus Hernia and Gastroesophageal Reflux, I have a gut feeling they have Hypothyroidism too as it runs in the family.

    Wondered if it you would be interested in reading it too ?

    It was classed as a:-

    'newly revealed Hypothyroidism.'

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/166...

  • My endo tests my hormone levels as I am on bioHRT, although you can dose purely on symptoms, so there must be some value in it.

    Generally, giving oestrogen without progesterone is a bad idea. Progesterone is the one that makes you feel happy and laid back. Oestrogen is what you need if you have vaginal atrophy (you'd know), for example.

    With a T4 of 15, it's incredibly unlikely that you are hyper as most ranges go up to at least 18, if not 24 (but you'll never know unless you see free T3). Without ranges you can't know if that is a good FT4 or not. I suspect it isn't.

  • I thought it was a low T4 but the range in this particularly guess was 9 - 19 I have never seen it set at that range before. I have always seen it go up to 24. I suppose within the context of this "new" range its okay but I have my doubts to say the least. GP says that the labs will not test my T3. Especially as my tsh is 0.3.

    Regarding the Oestrogen only apparently that's because I have had the hysterectomy. However I have only had a partial hysterectomy which I had mostly due to Endometriosis. According to the forum that She told me to look at I oestrogen only can cause a recurrence of endometriosis if you still have a cervix or partial cervix (which I do) progesterone stops this from occurring. However, in the past when I have been given HRT to treat endometriosis I reacted badly. I am now beyond confused.

  • Sorry my error there. Did I mention lack of concentration lol. No my TSH is 0.3 and my T4 is 15. I have had a hysterectomy so apparently do.not need progesterone though I'm bit confused from researching. As I have still got some cervix left there could be a risk of developing endometriosis again!? She's got the three weeks in that time I'm.putting together my questions and concerns (again) and I will also he requesting gynacolgist referral too. I mean why did no one tell me about yearly hormone blood test. Seriously I am afraid about my blood pressure I have never ever seen it like that. Thank you grey goose always good to.hear from you. 😀💟

  • The only reason she thinks you don't need progesterone is that unopposed oestrogen can't give you uterine cancer if you haven't got one (and if she thinks that's the only reason to give progesterone - run away). Doesn't mean it's a good thing or that you aren't deficient in progesterone. Get a referral to a gynae, she's just read the manual without understanding.

  • Angel I think your right. I'm feeling very concerned now. I did what all sensible grown women do in their fifties. I rang my Mum lol. She wants me to use the patch but when I go back on 15th December take the information with me and ask the questions. However I think that with all this confusion that my GP seems to have a Gynae referral is the only way I can feel any confidence about this. Its heartbreaking really after I saw her on Tuesday I actually felt the most positive I had in a long time. She was so assured and came across so well. But now........ I despair I really do.

  • Have a look at wellsprings for serenity. i have no thyroid . I am in middle of meno pause at 47. I only take progesterone. Progesterone lifts the thyroid. Estrogen blocks thyroid.

    I would try and change your practice. I live in coastalvillage in Cornwall and it is a matter of routine to check free t3 and free t4 every 3 months. If not then I insist. Believe me menopause I'd no joke I used to wake up every morning thinking oh no I'm still alive to face another day in pain. But I never go to the doctors feeling down because they ignore you.

    do your hair put yourmake up on and astart making some positive demands this forum gave me more confidence andknowledge than anyone. Take back control. It took me around 15 doctors and finally found onethat bebelieved in t3 medication. You can do it and always take someone with you if it helps you. Knowledge is power GPS have very little training on thyroid and stick to the book even endos s are more trained in diabetics than thyroid.

    I wish you well and good luck and totally get where you are .you are not alone there are thousands of us.

    Regards kate

  • It is a known fact that estrogen has a blocking effect on thyroid hormone. As we near menopause and resulting lower estrogen levels, we may need our thyroid dose lowered due to less estrogen blocking thyroid hormone. Over medication can cause fatigue and depression and especially anxiety! And headaches, muscle and joint pain. If in fact your thyroid dose is too high, the estrogen patch may help block some of that extra thyroid hormone. If you do eventually need to lower your thyroid dose, do it slowly and consistently so as to allow your body to adjust. You also mention hot flushes and palpitations--all these symptoms point to hyper not under medication.

    My teeth hurt also when my thyroid dose is too much, along with all those symptoms you mentioned.

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