A long-awaited GP appt materialised yesterday. They knew I wanted to discuss my recent ( 9th December!) blood tests results which have re- presented a diagnosis of borderline Chronic Kidney Disease, lipids at 5 ( they want me at 4) and OK blood pressure.
If I told you I used to make Hospital Consultants quake in my former life, you wouldn’t believe the idiotic wretch I was yesterday! Information I’d brought to show that CKD and Hashis were connected (‘No they aren’t! Well, yes they are but not really!’ ) Didnt even look.
Statins are not good for Hashis madam doctor? ‘That is just NOT TRUE! Well it is but mostly for hyper blah blah’) - everything written in the brackets is the GP btw.
Finally, (‘We can’t make you take a statin but you know the risks. You have two chronic conditions plus older age, so you have a one in three chance of stroke or heart attack within the next five years’)
By this time I was harangued enough and parting advice was ‘ You are doing everything you can which won’t have that much effect as you are oooold anyway so go away. Don’t think too much’ I paraphrase of course. What a terrible woman!Though nice with it!
I went off this morning for my 3 for 2 vit D/K spray at Boots ( thank you!) not sure I’d survive the brisk I mile walk!
Does anyone on here just give in and take the bliddy statins?
Written by
Calceolaria
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Don't give in. That stuff is really bad and may destroy your digestive system, among other things. Try some natural stuff (berberine for example.) Even better - mild exercise such as walking.
They get paid don’t for prescribing meds? if they were charged for them I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t push them so hard - just a personal grump though - natures top five alternatives to statins? I did a search but won’t let me add the link but apparently garlic and red rice yeast whatever that is 😂 can help … I hope you have a better GP experience next time you have to go 🥰
Gosh is that 5 for your cholesterol? I would be ecstatic if mine were that low, I wouldn’t have to fight to keep my doctors off my back.
If you don’t want to take statins then don’t, I don’t. I tried them many years ago before I really knew what they were and the side effects were no fun so I stopped, I read Malcolm Kendrick’s book and more recently I’ve read Aseem Malhotra’s book and some articles by Zoe Harcombe
Thank you. I think it was because I’m 76, no matter how youthful I think I am - and also the CKD in the mix, even though borderline. These equations or whatever which have been drawn up to predict outcomes are scary - but they are a mathematical formula - and people aren’t! Still, they do put the frighteners on. I know I can’t live forever but - I still have things to do, lol!
We’re the same age and like you I find it hard to feel that old! Aseem Malhotra is interesting too as he is a heart specialist, and his book is very ‘readable’.
I too am in a similiar boat to you but with added high Lpa so my cholesterol levels are high. After the fitting of a stent I was scared into taking statins and then the dose raised as my body refused to comply. All through this I was being undertreated for Hashimotos. Now I have completely stopped all statins, upped my thyroxine, cut out wheat ( I have a moderate IgA response) and feel so much better. Read everything you can, translate the percentages in medical papers to "numbers needed to treat" (NNT) And then you get a better idea of the real degree of help statins give which has allowed me to take a more reasoned view of what I want to do with my health. I've decided on quality over quantity😂
PS. I too could strike the fear of God into uppity I'll informed consultants. I'm clawing back the skill😂
Nothing grand, I worked as a Lab tech in Medical Microbiology, but due to a position of knowledge felt able to disagree if I felt their decisions were wrong. Knowledge is the answer I think, oh and trying to keep your temper under control😂😂
How true! I managed a team of hospital-based social workers where attempts to blame and criticise were a well-tried technique to cover up health/hospital shortcomings. I was an assiduous monitor so I wouldn’t let them. Until I was accepted and respected, the bitter spats I had to have, to protect, ultimately, vulnerable people, probably made me into the wreck I am today, lol!
I’m not saying Health and the hospital system wasn’t struggling, even then. We were put there to help but we also had our pressures - much worse now I think. To help but not be scapegoated.
I was advised to take statins years ago, as although my chloesterol was (and still is) at a normal level, I have type 1 diabetes, so more at risk of heart issues. I tried 3 different statins, and had severe debilitating side effects with all of them! I now have a note on my medical notes to say I won't touch them. Problem with cholesterol testing, it's like hormones, the levels fluctuate during the day, and a blood test doesn't give an overall picture. At the end of the day it is up to you whether you take them or not, but you just need to be aware of all the pro's and con's, and decide for yourself. As we are all aware, GP's aren't experts on all things medical, they are trained to diagnose and cover a wide range of medical issues, and usually spout what ever the drug companies tell them to.
Thank you. It’s a dilemma but even with statins, the doc said there are no guarantees. I do believe that modern medicine is beset by many difficulties for practitioners as well as patients. Medicine is not an exact science and I think that is often unacknowledged.
I’ve spoke about it before on here but my son told me (masters is science) that blood results are not an exact science either results can be out by 10-20% so worth baring that in mind too x
A blood test for new symptoms of my know chronic rheumatoid disease suggested cancer. The locum told me over the phone that ovarian or liver cancer were likely. A year later when all scopes and poke investigations found none and blood tests didn’t flag it up again they just shrugged (telephone shrug obviously). Clearly I’m thankful to be well but the waste of NHS resource and the worry this caused from one ‘imperfect’ blood test interpretation is concerning.
I take 50mcgs Accord, 25mcgs Wockhardt. I feel comfortable on these brands.
I am not gluten or dairy-free. I tried for months but did not perceive any diffeeence. I don’t feel bad now. I’m doing all this as a preventative, hopefully. In fact I’m extremely energetic, more than ever.
There is no way my GP is going to raise my levo dose - I know this as sure as ‘it don’t rain in Indianapolis’ and I’m not putting myself through that again. Suffice to say, it was the reason I went and I didn’t even get to that - I left surrounded by scorched earth as it was. My NHS December 2024 blood test range showed TSH at O.6. At your advice, I’m Medichecking again in February.
For your CKD, has it been diagnosed with eGFR using Creatinine? If so, that common method shouldn't be used in those with Thyroid/Liver issues.
CKD is obviously irrerversible (hence Chronic), but Hypothyroidism can artificially raise Creatinine (which is usually reversible with correct levels of Thyroid hormone) and hence eGFR increases back to normal levels. So if you take a look at your results and have high Creatinine, it *may* be possible that you don't have CKD, or at least don't have it as bad as first thought.
Those with Hypothyroidism should use a different testing method such as mFR.
My eGFR went from >90 to 58 within 6months, which shocked my GP, and now it's back up to 78. It shows how useless that test is to represent something that's supposed to be "Chronic".
Interesting. My e-gfr goes in and out of interval as well. My creatinine is on the very top but within interval. I wonder whether my kidneys are functioning better than I thought. My FT3/FT4 are now pretty close to optimal (they fluctuate a bit too). Definitely will look into that more. Thank you.
Thyroid dysfunction is associated with deranged kidney function. There is a statistically significant reduction in the average serum creatinine level in the hypothyroid patients after treatment compared to before treatment whereas the mean eGFR significantly improved after treatment.
So again, not treating hypothyroidism properly can significantly impact other systemic functions, including renal function.
Yeah, well, I fell for the "do you want to be at your daughter's wedding and play with your grandchildren" garbage and took the statins after the doctor had cut my Levo from 125 to 75 in one go and my LDL went through the roof. I could claim total exhaustion and brain fog (which I had), but it was just dumb total faith in "doctor knows best". The excruciating muscle pain that followed I will remember as long as my brain works. I had pain from head to toe in muscles I didn't even know I had. Man, I would rather have given birth to 20 of the above grandchildren. I threw the stuff in the rubbish bin (not the proper disposal of medication!) and took the doctor's fury. The good that came out of it was; that little worm of doubt whether doctor really knows best started to wriggle inside me and with a couple more really bad experiences I learned that most doctors do not know best often times.
My daughter is not married and it is questionable whether she ever will be. And I have no grandchildren. So it was all for naught anyway.
I assume I was not to laugh at the comment re: your daughter and prospective grandchildren but it might have been hysteria in my defence. Just going through the statin rigmarole again now. I told the GP I would try them and see her in a month. This has definitely built up my defences again. Thank you.
Laugh away! It is after all ridiculous how doctors try to scare patient into complying. The sad thing is, how often they are successful. If they could achieve the same result with comprehensively explaining the risks and benefits, that would be amazing. In the meantime I'm not convinced they themselves have enough information to do so. But that, of course, is my personal opinion (laced with a tiny bit of bitterness).
and note that hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) gets a mention :
If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid.
If your FT4>FT3 conversion is poor are you supplementing Brazil nuts/Selenium? Somewhere on this forum is a rough calculation showing if readings fall into Good, Moderate, Poor, but I can't find it. When I first checked I was at the very bottom of Moderate. Now I'm at the top or the very bottom of Good.
Statins? Bah! York Cardiology (YouTube) has very good short videos on it, and much more. The cardiologist is not a fan. My cholesterol is 6.5, I'm 73, and if a medic tells me the sky is blue I look up to check. Do not be bullied by the blighters.
That made me laugh - thank you! U fortunately I think Brazils are not good for CKD but I’ll double check. I’m trying to serve/help two conditions which sometime demand and reject different things.
Me: I'd rather not as I think it's to do with my uncontrolled thyroid plus very little testing of statins have been done on women and what there is says its not necessarily an advantage
GP:Well your wrong
Me: NHS website and the BMJ says what I just told you
GP: well they are wrong
Me: I'd like a cardiac calcium scan
GP: Well how are you going to get one of those?
Me: well I'll ask you and if you say no I'll ask the hospital when you refer me and if they say no I'll pay for my own (are they expensive?)
GP: well I can't send you for one
Me: OK
GP: how many of your relatives died under 60 of heart disease
Me: none
Gp: are you sure
Me: fairly maternal grand dad, cancer at 46, maternal grandma catastrophic organ failure post drug allergic reaction (!) Paternal grandad heart failure and TIAs...
GP: there you go.....
Me: at 91...paternal grandma, old age, dementia, post fall at 93(ish) father lung cancer 71, mother did die of congestive heart failure, I'll give you that but she was an alcoholic that smoked 60 a day & she died at 75, during covid and would probably not have done in normal circumstances
(Forgot to say)Now my brother had rheumatoid arthritis, oestocarcinoma, diabetes which came and went and most recently breast cancer....(bugger)
So we left it that she had warned me
My mum actually had her femoral artery bypassed but it turned out it had been crushed during a surgery (laparotomy?) for atypical appendix 25 years before & they apologised to her for saying g her artery was furred up from smoking, when it was actually crushed
My, excellent, GP practice do the calculations for prescribing statins but then take age out of the equation. If that drops you below the bar then they do not prescribe statins.
There comes a point at a certain age where the qrisk calculator just says everyone needs to take statins irrespective of all the other factors they ask about. Unfortunately I can't actually remember what age that is.
I have read that the qrisk calculator overestimates the risk of cardiovascular disease by about 4 or 5 times. I got that from Dr Malcolm Kendrick's blog, but I don't have a link to the actual page where he says that.
And there is no mention of hypothyroidism in qrisk - although that has been known for over a century. In fact the NHS happily quote smoking as top of the list but the following four ‘illnesses’ are all recognised Co-morbidities of hypothyroidism. You could not make up the robust stupidity of the medical profession.
The one that they are required to do under NHS guidelines. With me it came out, in my sixties, that I should be prescribed statins but when they took my age out it showed that statins were not necessary.
It is when they give you a regular check up. They run bloods and look at your cholesterol etc. The standard test includes your age. Our GP takes that out. He must have done research into the subject and decided that age should not be used as a factor for giving statins or not.
I like most refused Statins last year. My Cholesterol is 7.4 but I had been under medicated for years by the time I saw an Endocrinologist & had recently started on T3 I told her I’d had a finger prick test done & it was already down to 5. 4. Her response was that they are not reliable. She said she would discuss it again at my next appointment after a repeat test. She forgot so I kept quiet she’s now off work long term & other GP’s not noticed so I’m not going to mention it.
I think they want everyone on statins over 60.....didn't lovely Wes say something a long those lines?My cholesterol level this time was 4. It was lower a year ago, usually around 3 plus. S
.....but I've been getting over a horrible drug called Amiodarone enforcing me to take a lower dose of my ndt so am currently under treated. So this time I was told I'd been rated at 24% chance of a heart attack or stroke in 10yrs. I asked for the GP to explain......couldn't!! Am told this on the phone! I said well statins are contra indicated for hypothyroidism. Oh that she said we will just lower the dose if you get that....like it's totally fine. That was all I got as an explanation. I declined. She was shocked. I'm not a lamb to the slaughter.....if treatment is needed then I expect a proper knowledgeable explanation not some blind faith in a generic computer calculation. And you are not meant to iniate statin treatment until your thyroud is balanced.
Who are these so called doctors??? Allegedly qualified practioners with years of training......
These days I avoid them as much as possible. I 'endure'the annual checks which I dread. A consultation with your GP carries its own risks.....wish someone wpuld do a computer calculation for that!!
Sorry you had to go through that Words harm. I do not worry about my cholesterol at all. I did loads of research on it. What we have been told about cholesterol is a lie. We need it to make hormones and for our nerves, joints, and brain. The older we get we need it. I read France has a mean test cholesterol of 12 in their older population. They have the least heart attacks and strokes.
A good read is Malcolm Kendrick’s book, the cholesterol con.
A thing about your kidney test. Mine was not right. It ended up being dehydration. I now make sure I have 2 grains of unrefined grey sea salt on my tongue every time I drink a glass of water. So the water does not go straight through me but rehydrates my cells. Kidney tests have been fine since then. Maybe up your water and sea salt and then get retested.
The older we get we are not good at getting the water to our cells and brain. I was chronically dehydrated and did not realise it. It played havoc on my kidneys. Also salt is one of the components to making good strong stomach acid so we absorb all our nutrients well, my stomach acid was so weak. I was that person that would get up from sitting and come over all dizzy, my blood pressure would bottom out. I had awful chronic low blood pressure. It has to be the natural un-bleach grey sea salt. Not that horrible white table salt stuff.
I too, have refused statins, though my cholesterol isn’t that high and I try to incorporate oats into my diet as much as I can. I even add it to my smoothies.
no they have been trying to get me to take them I told I didn’t want them, went to collect my meds one month and pharmacist said is this the first time taking these meds ,I said what meds statins ,I said I dont take statins and gave them back to her ,anyway they had put them on my prescription but I didn’t even send that paper in I wrote on previous paper the other med I needed when opening them as d in law picked them up there were the statins I’m fed up with them what with them and interfering with thyroxine,so no your not the only one bet there’s many more as well
I don't think that is true in my own case. I've had several Covid jabs.
But my logic in the case of statins is :
1) If statins don't do what they are supposed to do then there is no point in taking them.
2) If statins do reduce my risks of developing cardiovascular disease and reduce my risk of dying of heart attack and/or stroke then it means that I will end up being more likely to die of something else (because everyone has to die of something). I really don't want to die of dementia in any form nor do I want to die of cancer. Both of those conditions are extremely painful. I would rather die of a heart attack and get it all over and done with.
3) If I were to take statins and develop side effects e.g. rhabdomyolysis, muscle damage, kidney problems, cataracts, increased risk of dementia, ... I would have to deal with the medical profession to get any help for one or more of these conditions. I have almost life-long experience of not being believed by doctors and I doubt I would get help with any statin side effects, so I'm not going to risk taking them.
I'm sure people will think my logic is very suspect and/or stupid, but I'm happy with it.
The pharmaceutical industry and the medical establishment have brought much of this on themselves.
Whether their suggestion of putting statins in the water supply. Or their insistence that statins have virtually no side effects, for us later to be told that one statin is better than another because the first one has more side effects. Their almost complete disregard for interactions with other medicines and supplements.
This is a link to interactions with just one - atorvastatin:
The way that it appears doctors are being paid to prescribe statins.
That statins have often been pushed at people who have absolutely NO cholesterol issues at all - maybe even have low cholesterol.
That the science surrounding cholesterol (low, medium or high) is far from clear.
That strokes are treated as one issue - not separating the very different haemorrhagic and ischaemic strokes which have very different incidence/cholesterol profiles.
These views of statins pre-date covid by many years.
I’m sure others will have better info but my understanding is that it’s to do with targets being met - and rewarded.
I remember drug companies descending on hospitals, taking over the Boardroom, lavish buffets provided, samples of new wonder meds, graphs, charts and various incentives. All the docs would swarm in at lunchtime. I understand these practices have tightened up considerably but I’m not sure how much. I can’t speak for GP practices and drug companies as I just don’t know.
I wouldn’t say that these relationships have not been for the common good. New drugs are desirable and sometimes positively life-changing. The he fact is that the public perceive this to be a system of ‘backhanders’ and this has impacted enormously on the uptake of statins.
Its to do with Quality Of Framework funding. GP's are are private contractors now working for the NHS. Many GP's are partners in their practice, so they get money back from the monies their practice generates.
Certain conditions, diagnosis, treatment, monitoring attract points, points in turn are turned into cash depression, diabetes, high BP, asthma, cholesterol are all big earners for GP's. It stinks basically and it concerns me that way too many people are being diagnosed with conditions they either dont have or which are borderline.
Personally I do not have fear of statins, or covid or vaccines, what I have is facts. I had the covid jabs and still do, as well as the flu jabs. I understand viral transmission and as yet have not had covid, I took all sensible precautions. Reading widely on the subject of statins I have decided that their efficacy does not warrant their risks for me. I very much doubt anyone on here is part of a conspiracy plot😂
Maybe a lower chance of heart attack or stroke but a greatly increased risk of diabetes or dementia. Rock and hard place. People need to do their own research and make informed decisions.
A doctor told me that she would put put me on statins.
I said no you wont.
She was taken aback.
I said you don't just put me on medicine, you have to discuss it with me.
More wide eyes.
I said I have read up on statins and I think that because I am fit and healthy (at the time) the risk of side effects is much higher than the risk of coronary heart disease in the future for me as an individual.
She was completely non-plussed and did not prescribe statins.
You don't have to take any medicine if you do not want to. It is best to make sure that the doctor records correctly the reason why you do not want to take statins.
PS my cholesterol is 6.2 and has been as far as can remember. thin/fat fit/unfit young/old, its never changed. I suspect that is my natural level.
I do keep fit and mobile to help keep my heart fit. Currently overweight but slowly getting back to fitness. i also monitor my heart via a blood pressure machine, and my smart watch.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Words harm. I do not worry about my cholesterol at all. I did loads of research on it. What we have been told about cholesterol is a lie. We need it to make hormones and for our nerves, joints, and brain. The older we get we need it. I read France has a mean test cholesterol of 12 in their older population. They have the least heart attacks and strokes. 
GP won't test for thyroid anti-bodies
TSH and GP!....SIGH.....
50mcg Levo and GP refusing to increase dose
Disheartening doctor’s visit
GP visit
