HRT Question

[Amazon07]

Hello Ladies

I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and wishing you all a joyous, prosperous and blessed 2024, in good health and happiness!

I wanted to ask a bit of a silly question I guess, but how do I know

1. If I’m on the right kind of HRT

2. How much HRT I need

3. When I’m taking enough?

I recently (about 3-4 weeks ago) started to take 100mg Utrogestan and 25mg Evorel patches, prescribed by my GP. She checked hormone levels and confirmed that I was going through the menopause. I’m 47.

I’ve had no periods since January 2023 and have had issues with irregular periods ever since I stopped breastfeeding (breastfed for 33 months) and I stopped breastfeeding almost exactly 7 years ago. I’ve been struggling with my periods ever since.

I have been suffering with very bad migraines, I’ve had them since I was a child but they got significantly worse over the last 3-4 years and really, really bad since August 2023. It must have been due to my low oestrogen levels as I’ve had only 1 milder migraine yesterday, since I started to take the HRT about 3-4 weeks ago.

The Evorel patch - it has come off before time one 2-3 occasions and I wondered if the patch is the right way for me. Also, as per my questions above, how do I know what the right amount is for me to take? I think 25mg is the lowest dose and that’s what I’m on now, I might need more but how do I know how much? What are the symptoms of taking too much HRT? I’m a bit anxious as my mother’s sister had breast cancer (I don’t know if she was on HRT, I’m not in touch with her).

I guess I have the same questions re the Utrogestan. Do I need more and how do I know how much I’ll need?

Will the HRT help me with hair loss/hair getting kinda dry and frizzy? I’m feeling so much better in myself and my husband says I’m much more relaxed, but still have a long list of ADHD symptoms and issues with executive functioning, I wonder if any of you ladies experienced this and if HRT helped, given that oestrogen and dopamine are interlinked?

Thank you so much in advance for all your help! 🙏🏼💝🙏🏼

[Buddy195 Administrator]

Optimal HRT is very much trial and error and you may need to try different combinations to see what works best for you.

I’ve personally found the gel works better than patches (again you need to experiment with how many pumps to use) & I now take utrogestan nightly instead of x2 tablets for 14 nights per month (as I found this lessoned my anxiety symptoms which flared in peri menopause). However, we are all different; you need to experiment with products & doses to help alleviate your symptoms.

Many members report needing slightly more Levo when taking HRT, but I’ve actually needed less.

Many symptoms of peri menopause and hypothyroidism overlap. It can be tricky to work out what is at play if your thyroid medication isn’t optimal.

Regarding HRT, it may be useful to have a look at Dr Louise Newson’s free Balance App, as I find it really useful for comparing HRT medications & having up to date research articles. There is also an ability to post questions.

healthunlocked.com/redirect...

[Amazon07 in reply to Buddy195]

Thank you so much!! And thank you for the link to the App, I really appreciate it, I’ve downloaded it!

I take 100mg Utrogestan every night, my GP didn’t tell me to have any breaks.

I guess I’m just not sure what kind of symptoms/signs to look out for, that’d indicate that I’m taking enough/not enough/too much HRT?

I take T3 for the hypothyroidism, and I’m so distracted/unfocused/forgetful that I often forget to take one of the 3 doses that I usually used to take every day. Even if I set an alarm, if I don’t take the T3 when the alarm goes off, within 30 seconds I get distracted and I forget all about it! It’s so frustrating! 🤦🏻‍♀️

I guess with the patch at least it’s on for 3.5 days so I don’t have to remember taking it daily! 🙈🙈

I wish the focus and forgetfulness would improve! 🤪

[Buddy195 Administrator in reply to Amazon07]

I would go slowly when adding oestrogen (either as a gel or patch) so you don’t miss your ‘sweet spot’ where you feel well. When I tried to add more oestrogen than I needed, I got a flare of spots, period-like pain & felt very emotional. There are many useful articles on the Newson site. There is also a tracker, to help you monitor your symptoms.

[Amazon07 in reply to Buddy195]

Thank you very much! Just seen this. So would the next step be to go up to 50mg Evorel for a month (or longer??) and see how I feel?

With the T3, how do I know I’m taking enough? Paul Robinson always said to me that when you are on T3, blood tests are meaningless and you need to go with his you feel. But with Hypothyroid symptoms and menopause symptoms overlapping, how do I know what’s what?

Mainly it’s the muzziheadedness, memory issues (MUCH worse since menopause!!) and hair loss (again, worse since menopause…) that are bothering me, as well as the lack of ability to focus and be productive (again, worse since menopause, and I’m struggling with executive functioning too, a LOT more) and the migraines, which have improved since starting HRT.

Thank you! 🙏🏼💝

[Buddy195 Administrator in reply to Amazon07]

I think you would benefit from using the tracker on the Newson app to monitor your symptoms closely if you decide to increase to 50mg Evorel patch (….but first ensure you are taking your thyroid meds consistently)

[Amazon07 in reply to Buddy195]

Thank you so much, that’s really helpful!! I’ll do that! 🌻🙏🏼💝

[Hidden in reply to Amazon07]

I took various hrt meds for over 30 years, having haemorrhaged walking up the beach while on holiday in Spain in my early 40's! I developed hypothyroidism in 2000 and have been on thyroid meds since. Latterly, I had to stop the HRT cold turkey in December 21 when I was diagnosed with a very early breast cancer-showed on the elective mammo as small white dots- so had a menopause ++!! I was on Progestrone 100 and 1 oestrogen pump a day at the time, at 76. I was very well, it gave me all the energy I needed to run my B&B, and I looked 15 years younger too! Fast forward to now, and I feel 85! I am seriously thinking about restarting the hrt, as it's quality of life at 78 now, my skin is so dry, no eyebrows, wrinkles, aching knees, etc, even though I take collagen, vit C, hyaloronic acid, and other supplements. I'm amazed your Gp even tested hormone levels, as I have asked for that and been told there is no point-but if the aromatose inhibitor to prevent cancer recurrance by reducing oestrogen production is being taken, then it is important to know what level it is!

[Amazon07 in reply to Hidden]

Oh bless you, you had quite a journey!! I really hope you feel better soon!! 🙏🏼💝

They tested my sex hormone levels to check if I’m going through the menopause, I think it’s standard practice to do that? It makes sense to test before they’d prescribe HRT for the first time, right?

I hope you feel great again soon!! I wish you good health! 🙏🏼💝✨🌺

[Hidden in reply to Amazon07]

Well, no, (it was late 80's) and at the time I was so distressed about the whole thing I just accepted the meds so I didn't have a recurrance and was on various combinations until I had to stop!

[Amazon07 in reply to Hidden]

Bless you, I can understand you felt distressed!

I really hope you feel better soon!! Sending hugs xoxox

[fiftyone in reply to Buddy195]

I can't give medical advice but I have used the Everol patches(big square patches) and they are awful. don't stick properly and come off. I used them while my usual patch, Estriodot, were out of stock. The Estriodot are much smaller, and stick really well.

[Amazon07 in reply to fiftyone]

My Evorel 25mg is small, it’s about 1ins x 1/2 ins rectangle, and if I press it on and leave my hand on it pressing for 10-15 seconds, it seems to stay on really well.

How big is Estriodot and is that the same oestrogen patch, just different brand? Thank you 🙏🏼🌺

[fiftyone in reply to Amazon07]

don't know dimensions. would say evorel is at least 1inch square, while estriodot is smaller and rectangular.

[Amazon07 in reply to fiftyone]

Yes, that sounds about right for my Evorel! Is the Estrodiot also body identical? Thank you! 🌺

[SarahJane1471 in reply to Amazon07]

Yes. Estradot is the same. Much smaller and sticks better. I now use the gel as you can alter the dose as you need.

Dr Louise Newson does loads on the net/podcast/etc she is the a goddess in my eyes and I will stay on HRT til the day I die!!!!

[Amazon07 in reply to SarahJane1471]

Thank you!! When you say ‘alter the dose as you need’, do you mean day-to-day or do you mean that you gradually go up or down a bit? With the gel, how do you know how much is in a ‘little bit of extra’ gel?? Maybe I’m overthinking it but I’d struggle to know how much more is a ‘little more’? Xx

[SarahJane1471 in reply to Amazon07]

Yes I do believe you are over thinking this 🤷‍♀️. I can only tell you from my experience.

7 yrs on HRT. Started on 25 patch on Estradot ( specific brand on prescription) .i don’t need progesterone as I have no womb. I did a tonne of research before I started. You do not need blood tests before starting as your hormones change everyday once you are in menopause. After a year I was on 100 patch. Then changed to gel as it suits my daily routine and I can add an extra pump when I like if I feel a bit wobbly. (my dose should be 4 pumps). A friend of mine uses 6!. For me I rub shoulder to wrist on both arms until it goes tacky to touch, clean my teeth and then it is dry enough to put my clothes on. Some women split the gel morning and night. Some love the patches some love the spray. You just keep adjusting the dose upwards until your symptoms disappear 🤷‍♀️. When you know, you know 😉

[Amazon07 in reply to SarahJane1471]

That’s actually really helpful and makes sense!! I didn’t realise your hormones changed every day - but yes, that makes perfect sense too!! I really get what you’re saying now, that was so helpful, thank you!

Do you use the Lanzetto gel or a different brand? Thank you very much for explaining everything so patiently, I really appreciate it! 🙏🏼💝

[SarahJane1471 in reply to Amazon07]

Estrogel

[SarahJane1471 in reply to Amazon07]

I felt better within a week of starting HRT

[Amazon07 in reply to SarahJane1471]

I felt better within a week too!! So glad I started it!! Thank you re Estrogel! 🙏🏼💝

[SarahJane1471 in reply to Amazon07]

TBH if I were you I would stick to the patches for now. You could try I little experiment and put 2 of your 25 patches on and see if it makes you feel better. If it does call your GP and tell them to increase your dose 🤷‍♀️

[Amazon07 in reply to SarahJane1471]

Thank you!! 🙏🏼💝

[fiftyone in reply to Amazon07]

apologies for the delay. As below. Estriodot is a thin film of transparent sticky material, like EvoDrel, but not as bulky. Daintier and stickier.

[Amazon07 in reply to fiftyone]

Thank you 🙏🏼 xx

[Sandalsforever in reply to Buddy195]

if you have only been on HRT for 3-4 weeks you really need to stay on that amount for 3-4 months, your body needs to adjust to the hormones and since you are feeling better it may take a while to reach that optimal level in your body. It took me 6 months for my body to adjust and most all of my symptoms went away.

Also, with breast cancer in your family you want to consider taking the minimum and see how it goes.

Dr Newsom’s website is great - read up on it - very up to date and informative info on HRT.

[Amazon07 in reply to Sandalsforever]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate your help! I’ll have a look on Dr N’s website and on the App too! 🙏🏼💝

[Buddy195 Administrator in reply to Sandalsforever]

I think you meant to reply to Amazon07 not myself

[Sandalsforever in reply to Buddy195]

Yes, I did

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Must admit when I started on Evorel 50 patches after 6 months with no real improvement (before T3) I experimented and ended up sticking 2 and half on to find my sweet spot... I then switched to Lenzetto as it is so much easier to adjust the dose and feel your way... also added in testosterone at this point

So I'd suggest swapping to a gel or a spray, I know I've missed a dose or dropped too low when I get the return of anxiety, doubts and headaches.. seem to remember your GP rather pushed patches on you so I'd push for a change if they keep falling off

Progesterone dose tends to be 100mg unless you are on a high dose of oestrogen, they aren't bothered about checking the level which seems odd when you are trying to balance things 🤷‍♀️ so after 5 years on HRT I did a Randox test a few weeks ago to check my levels and see that they are on the low side so I now take 100mg orally every night and every other night 1 vaginally which has been working well...I'm actually prescribed 200mg but if I take that much it makes me quite punch drunk! 😵

Interesting you mention ADHD as it came up in my research into DHEA that it is common for ADHD people to have low DHEA... I've added some in as mine was low and I'm on a more even keel

Since I've sorted out my thyroid dosing, HRT, vits and mins in the last year my previously thin and fast shedding hair has grown back to the point I get the hairdresser to layer it and thin it out!! 🤗

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

Oh my goodness, please tell me how you did that with your hair!!!! I’m really struggling with it!!! It’s so devastating to see it all falling out and getting so thin! I feel like I look like a rat! 🙈😭😭

What vitamins and minerals are you taking? I’m taking tons of expensive and good quality stuff to no avail! How do you know how much T3 to take? How many doses do you take/day and how do you remember to take them? I’m really struggling with brain fog and forgetfulness ATM!

How can I check DHEA levels and where can I get DHEA from?

I was given Evorel 25mg, when you did your experiment, how did you know that you found your sweet spot and that 2.5 will not cause any issues? I’m just bricking it a bit re cancer as my Mum’s sister had it and I have a 9 year old, whom I love more than anything in the world, so I want to be here for her and be healthy.

I initially suggested my GP the Lenzetto like you recommended, but she was reluctant and gave me the Evorel. How did you convince your GP?

Thank you so much for all your help, I really, really appreciate it!! I want to get well so much, I need to gather all the advice and help so I know what to do! I feel so braindead and the hair is so upsetting! 😩😭

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

I can't pinpoint what turned things around for my hair as when I found this Forum I added all of the supplements and bought some T3 all at the same time 🙃 as I was so desperate... I do remember adding in Full Spectrum Amino Acids had a good effect but that might have been a combination of improved iron, B vits and T3 kicking it 🤷‍♀️ I still take them though as I don't tend to get enough protein in my diet...

DHEA tends to be tested alongside cortisol so I'd had blood serum results in with Medicheck testing in the past which were in range but then I did the cortisol saliva test which showed it as low 73 (106 -300) so I ordered some from iHerb without any issues 😏

As for your GP I think patches are cheaper...! I don't really see how she can turn down your request to try other options... just be firm 🤗

I don't know too much about the cancer risk it rather depends if it was an oestrogen related one that your Aunt had? The way I look at it is I'm not increasing my hormone levels to anything ridiculous, just stopping them plummeting to really unhealthy levels which cause so many other health issues...

I take just enough to remove the symptoms and I know this as if I miss a dose or two they all come back ☹️

As for T3 dosing, I tried splitting but found one dose in the morning works better for me even than taking a higher dose split throughout the day which caused slumps 😅 so that stopped the awful remembering game which I was rubbish at too!

The sticking more patches on game I just increased until I felt better so that would equate to 125 but now I'm on Lenzetto 3 squirts which actually works out at less than the patches but it depends how well you absorb the different versions... also testosterone acts as a back up source of oestrogen if needed the body can convert it 😵

Lenzetto uses a body identical form of oestrogen (estradiol 17 beta) which differs slightly from the patches.... I think I'm right in saying

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you!!

Where did you get the Full Spectrum Amino Acids from please?

I haven’t had my iron and folate checked in ages! Not sure if my GP had it checked in November! I’ll ask when I see her the week after next!

Gosh, now you reminded me! I bought a cortisol test from Medicheck about 2 years ago, and I still haven’t used it! I’m going to make sure I’ll take my T3 regularly and religiously for a few weeks and I’ll then get the cortisol done! Please could I message you and ask you if I find that I need it, which DHEA you got from iHerb? Thank you 🙏🏼💝

Thank you re Lenzetto, I’ll do that!

Re my Aunt’s cancer, I asked my Mum and she wasn’t even sure if it was hormonal. She didn’t think so. My aunt is not a very nice person unfortunately, and she can get very controlling and manipulative, so after much trying, I opted to not have a relationship with her. My Mum does as much as possible but she gets very strange when asked questions, so we are not sure about her cancer. She’s a very bitter person and blames all her problems on other people, so I think that’s what has caused her cancer.

You’re right, essentially all we are doing is replacing the oestrogen what we used to have, so it should be good!

What symptoms do you get if you are taking too much oestrogen or not enough oestrogen? Thank you so much! 🙏🏼💗🌷

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

I've stuck with these ones as they seem to do the trick

Always happy to chat 🙂

Amino Acids

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

Just swapped to this one

This was the most useful cortisol / DHEA test as shows the 'free' rather than 'total' you get from blood serum tests... regeneruslabs.com/products/...

Micronized

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you so much!!

I’ll do the Medicheck first as I already bought that like two years ago 🤦🏻‍♀️🙈🤪

Please could you post the link for the DHEA? Thank you so much!!

Wanted to ask re Testosterone too. My GP didn’t test that, but I might be low as I don’t have much sex drive. I’d rather have a cup of tea 🫖😆🤣🤣

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

Cripes this is a busy post!! 😆 Struggling to keep up

uk.iherb.com/pr/davinci-lab...

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

It is very busy indeed!! 🙈🤪

Did you get the 10mg DHEA or the 25mg one? Thank you xx

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

10mg as micronized it has better absorption than the standard DHEA, I'd rather go low, slow and steady... I'm thinking 3x but I'd have to go rummage

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

....

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you so much!! Both of those are micronised on iHerb, but to be fair I wasn’t sure what that meant, until you sent the info! Thank you! It makes sense to go up slowly! So if I do the cortisol/DHEA test and my DHEA is low, should I introduce 10mg DHEA/day and see how I feel? When/how do I take DHEA and how long should I observe myself to see if I need more? Thank you 🙏🏼

I think I’ll read this thread a few times to take it all in!! So much amazing and helpful information! Thank you! 🙏🏼💝🌺🌸

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

I don't really know enough about it, I started on 15mg Life Extensions and researched a bit more before ordering the micronized... I'm going to retest my levels after 6 months 🤷‍♀️🤞

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

Seem to remember you asked about testosterone? They won't be keen to test that until you have been on oestrogen for at least 6 months as it could improve if no longer being used to create oestrogen

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you!! I’ll try to remember that!! Xx

[janeroar in reply to TiggerMe]

Hi Eeyore could you post the link to the amino acids for some reason can’t find these ones when doing a simple search.

Also could you say more about how you feel they’ve helped you? Looking for final pieces missing in the jigsaw 😊

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to janeroar]

Searching "Total Amino" seems to work better than "Full Spectrum"

amazon.co.uk/Vitamins-Spect...

I struggle to get enough protein due to various food intolerances and these seem to bridge that gap 🤗

[janeroar in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you. I eat a lot of protein so I’m likely to be ok? How would I know if these would help?

[Amazon07 in reply to janeroar]

That’s a really good question!! I eat a lot of protein too. I got these aminos because I guess every day foods maybe doesn’t contain all essential ones?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to janeroar]

Possibly not for you then

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to janeroar]

It's so hard to know what any of us absorb whether from food or supplement but my Albumin levels were rock bottom... I just try to plug my obvious gaps in my diet

[Serendipitious in reply to TiggerMe]

Eeyore100,

I wondered why you decided on amino acids and not say BCAAs? I'm keen to try these for my hair too.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Serendipitious]

From memory, when I researched the full spectrum seemed like a rounded approach as they provide all the essential amino acids, more specific BCAAs seemed to promote muscle growth 🤷‍♀️

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

That’s what I found too in my research! Xx

[Serendipitious in reply to TiggerMe]

Thanks I’ll order and give them a go

[Amazon07 in reply to Serendipitious]

BCAAs are just 3 amino acids, valine, leucine and isoleucine. The one TiggerMe recommends has all 20 amino acids. Xx

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

Too much oestrogen starts to mess with my thyroid levels as it can increase Thyroid Binding Globulin so all the usual hypo things start to creep back in... it's a bit of a balancing act but you get a feel for it 🤗

[Popscicle in reply to TiggerMe]

It’s safe d that only oral oestrogen increases thyroid binding globulin and lowers available thyroi

[Popscicle in reply to TiggerMe]

Sorry - last message went wrong! Only oral oestrogen increases thyroid binding globulin and therefore reduces available thyroxine. However anecdotally, people sometimes say with transdermal hrt they feel they need to increase their thyroid meds.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Popscicle]

Yep, it's finding the balance... at one point I doubled up my oestrogen to see what happened and gradually it makes things worse rather than better!

Like you say oral oestrogen is worse in this respect but pushing oestrogen high is going to have a knock on effect with TBG

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

The other thing to remember is that Sex Hormone Binding Globulin helps to regulate hormone levels and by binding to them they aren't 'free'

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

“The other thing to remember is that Sex Hormone Binding Globulin helps to regulate hormone levels and by binding to them they aren't 'free'”

That went straight over my head!! 🙈🙈🙈 Please could you explain it? Thank you xx

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

🤣It's all over my head... It is just like Thyroid Binding Globulin in that it acts in a way to stop excesses of free hormones circulating... so if you were to bathe in hormones these things would trigger to regulate them

[Popscicle in reply to TiggerMe]

All transdermal oestrogen is plant made and bio-identicle not just the spray. Different people prefer different preparations and I would suggest not changing from patches yet unless they really don’t stick. You’ve got to give each method a chance. It’s advised that you warm the area where you want to stick the patch with a hairdryer for 10 secs then apply the patch & keep a warm hand on it for a few seconds.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Popscicle]

Bio identical are unregulated (estradiol E2, estriol E3, estrone E1) and body identical (17 beta estradiol are different forms of oestrogen, I only have experience of Lenzetto and patches not the gel ( I only tried the gel once as the sliminess is not for me 🤢) like you say finding your dose and timings is the important thing, patches work well for some but are less adjustable... like you say trial and error is the only way

[Popscicle in reply to TiggerMe]

I think it’s the other way round. I’m sure it’s body-identicle hormones that are not regulated. You Hv to get them privately whereas bio-identicle are available on the nhs.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Popscicle]

I get lenzetto and utrogestan from GP they won't supply bio identical, you would have to buy them ones like Wellsprings Health offer

[Popscicle in reply to TiggerMe]

I know utrogestan is bio-identicle and I’m pretty sure tho not certain that lenzetto is too.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Popscicle]

Body identical

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

So body identical is better? Like what we get, the Utrogestan and Evorel/Lenzetto for you? So we are getting what’s best for us? Thank you 🙏🏼💝🌷

[Popscicle in reply to Amazon07]

Body identicle are registered with the Medicines Agency and are available on the nhs. The are plant based and identicle to your own hormones so the body recognises them. Bio identicles are bespoke natural hormones designed for each individual woman based on salivary hormones. They are not recognised by the Medicines Agency and thought to be potentially unsafe due lack of clinical trials and untested dosages.

[Popscicle in reply to Popscicle]

Oh and yes evorel and utrogestran are body identicle.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Amazon07]

Yep

[Amazon07 in reply to TiggerMe]

I used Wellsprings Serentity cream (progesterone) for years to try to regulate my periods after stopping breastfeeding, and I had zero results 🙈😖

[Popscicle in reply to Amazon07]

The body cannot absorb progesterone from a cream as the particles are too big.

[Amazon07 in reply to Popscicle]

Yes, that definitely seems to be true, TiggerMe said that to me before, on another post. I used it transvaginally but it still did nothing! So is Wellsprings Serenity just a pricey scam then?? I used it for years and did nothing for me (apart from lightening by bank account by hundreds of £££) 🙈😖🤦🏻‍♀️

[Popscicle in reply to Amazon07]

Basically yes!

[Amazon07 in reply to Popscicle]

Arghhh so frustrating!! Do you think the people who say they are getting help from Wellsprings, are getting the placebo effect?? I wonder how many of them actually had their hormone levels tested!!

[Popscicle in reply to Amazon07]

Yes! Any benefit is placebo but we mustn’t rubbish placebo effects because hope and belief are very helpful.

[Amazon07 in reply to Popscicle]

That’s really good advice, thank you!! I did that with my last patch, just warmed it with my hand and pressed the patch of for 10 seconds, and it stayed on really well! 🙏🏼🌟

[Popscicle in reply to TiggerMe]

Eeyore I must apologise. It is me who has got them the wrong way round. It is body-identicle hormones that are regulated and available on the nhs not bio-identicle. You were right.

[Amazon07 in reply to Popscicle]

So Utrogestan and Evorel are body identical?

Which is better, body identical or bio identical? 🤔

Thank you ☺️🌸

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Popscicle]

It is all so darn confusing isn't it 😵 🤗

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Popscicle]

I'll often post something up and then on re-reading realise I've got myself in a twist... thankful for the Edit option 😅

[Buddy195 Administrator]

I fully appreciate your eagerness and desire to ‘feel well’ Amazon07, but one thing I’ve learned from experience is to only make one change at once as it’s likely you will get in a muddle working out which supplement/ thyroid medication increase/ HRT adjustment is beneficial. I’ve now become a tortoise instead of a hare!

[Amazon07 in reply to Buddy195]

Makes sense!!! I’m willing to take it slowly, just no idea where to start!

I’ll need to make sure I take my T3 as I used to, and see how I feel, but like you rightly say, menopause symptoms and hypothyroid symptoms can overlap so it’s hard to distinguish what’s what!

How would you recommend that I start?

Thank you very much! 🙏🏼

[Buddy195 Administrator in reply to Amazon07]

I would first ensure you take your thyroid medication consistently/ continue to supplement any key thyroid vitamins that are not optimal. I would refrain from adjusting your current HRT until you have a couple of weeks of consistent thyroid dosing. Then perhaps try 50mg Evorel.

[Amazon07 in reply to Buddy195]

OK thank you!

Pretty good with taking the vitamins and minerals, just need more magnesium.

Do you know if I can take vitamins and minerals when I take the Utrogestan? It says to take it on an empty stomach and not eat for 2 hours before taking Utrogestan and 1 hour after. Just not sure if taking supplements would be a issue??

Yep! Need to find a way to take every dose of my T3 every day! No idea how, but I’ll work something out!

What vitamin levels should I check to see if they are optimal, for my thyroid? Can I get this done by my GP or is there’s private test you could recommend?

Thank you so much! 🙏🏼💗

[Buddy195 Administrator in reply to Amazon07]

Check ferritin, folate, B12 and vit D levels (these are the key thyroid vitamins) and share results prior to making any adjustments.

Medichecks currently have 20% off tests, so may be worth investigating their advanced thyroid test healthunlocked.com/redirect...

[Amazon07 in reply to Buddy195]

Thank you so much!!! 🙏🏼💝🌺

[Popscicle in reply to Amazon07]

Re vitamins - are you aware that the most important vitamins are folate, B12, ferritin and vit d? Your levels need to be optimal not just in range. These help the thyroid hormones to work at their best.

[Amazon07 in reply to Popscicle]

Thank you!! Yes, I was aware, I’m taking all these every day. My GP checked some of my levels but not sure which ones, I’ll get my results and have a look! Optimal is the top 1/3 of the range, right? Thank you ☺️🙏🏼💝

[Popscicle in reply to Amazon07]

No! Optimal is however much hrt you need to get rid of symptoms. There is an upper limit which the gp can prescribe but if you’re someone who requires an even higher dose (not that common) this is usually done by a menopause clinic.

Once you’re over 45 there is no point in measuring your hormones because your levels will be going up and down. The only reason you ever measure levels is to see how well or not you are absorbing from whatever method you’re using.

[Hidden in reply to Amazon07]

Quote- " I can't pinpoint what turned things around for my hair as when I found this Forum I added all of the supplements and bought some T3"-

where did you 'buy' the t3- here in the UK I had to see an Endo privately and persuade him to let me trial a 3 month course of 5mcg!

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

I'm guessing this was meant to be aimed at me?... I bought it from abroad but have since seen an NHS Endo and they now prescribe

[Popscicle]

Did you Hv any symptoms before starting hrt? How much you need to take is governed by symptoms. If you still have symptoms like brain fog, fatigue, hot flushes, mood changes, anxiety, joint pain etc you would need to increase your dose. Check symptoms on Louise Newson’s balance app.

How you take hrt is up to you but transdermal (patches, spray or gel) has minimal side effects compared to oral.

Utrogestan is a natural progesterone made from plants. You can take it orally or vaginally (fewer side effects). If before starting hrt you still had periods you take 2 x 100mg once a day for 14 days. If you’ve had more than 12m of no periods you take 1 x 100mg every day. The role of progesterone is to protect the uterus lining as oestrogen makes it grow. Without the progesterone there is a risk it could become cancerous.

Evorel 25mg is a very low starting dose. Normally you start on 50mg patches and work from there.

It’s advised to give it 3m to fully kick in before you try changing doses or to a gel or spray but in your case if you feel unsettled or irritable of any symptoms right now it would be reasonable to discuss trying a 50mg patch with your gp now (because you’re on such a low dose). Really the 25mg patches are there to add to 50mg patches if someone needs a 75mg dose.

[Amazon07 in reply to Popscicle]

Thank you so much, that’s incredibly helpful!! I’ll ask my GP to double up my oestrogen patches, I’ll see her in 2 weeks today. I had no periods for 11 months when I started HRT. I had a lot of symptoms, and I feel a little bit better since starting HRT, but still feel very foggy headed, memory is rubbish, fatigued, executive functioning is rubbish, feel angry/emotional at times, experiencing hair loss, there’s a list of things 😖 but feel a bit better since starting HRT. I’ll check symptoms on the Balance App! Thank you! 🙏🏼💝

[CoeliacMum1]

Being a good 10 years older and still perimenopausal and on HRT 3-4yrs this is such an individual thing and I would say very early days if only been on approx a month.

My HRT experience has been a bit of a rollercoaster I’ve been on sequential (cyclical) and continuous twice, doses up and down and been referred to gynaecologists as had bleeds but I had for quite some time before the HRT. I had mini gyno op with biopsies and polyps removed and coil fitted… I have adenomyosis it was found I’m waiting for my gyno MRI results. I have hypothyroidism-Hashimoto’s too.

Hair wise noticeably more loss with coil for me and lower mood but it’s early days but bleeding less, which hopefully now will optimise my iron and folate etc as struggle to maintain optimal levels… supplements are awful.

I liked Utrogestan but wasn’t enough for me as most likely have oestrogen dominance or not detoxifying well…I have oestrogel gel but depending on how much you require it can be messier if you need to apply a lot of pumps a bit of an inconvenience waiting to dry in that case but I take minimum so it’s ok for me.

I’ve not had to alter my Levothyroxine dose at all.

The Dr Louise Newson Balance website & app are best for advice print off take/send to your GP if you're concerned regarding any side effects mention everything but you should have a check up after 3-6 months and your dose might be altered accordingly.

If you’ve had no period for a year they usually start you on continuous regimen I went to early on that then back to Sequential then still problems back to continuous with higher dose but still problems… seem to be settling with coil now and just finding my correct oestrogen dose, I may go up a pump but keeping low for time being.

We are all so very different regarding our hormones and like mentioned it’s very much trial and error and a very individual thing if worried about the breast cancer bit there’s lots of information explaining where that unfortunate incorrect old study worried everyone and lots of literature saying actual opposite but do read that for yourself . A good book is Oestrogen matters by Dr Avrum Bluming here is link to a podcast.

Oestrogen Matters – Dr Avrum Bluming & Dr Louise Newson - balance menopause balance-menopause.com/menop...

[Amazon07 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

Thank you so much for telling me about your journey and all the helpful advice! I really appreciate it! Thank you very much for the link to the podcast and the book too, I’ll get it! I really hope you’ll find the balance soon and feel well! 🙏🏼✨🌺

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Sorry! Corrected 🤗

[Knackeredandcross]

the general consensus with HRT is to take the lowest dose necessary to assuage your symptoms though as you’re post menopausal your body will be producing barely any estrogen at all so that does seem like a low dose. Most people start on 50. You will be on continuous progesterone as you’ve had no periods for a year and I personally find that works better for me as the fluctuations used to cause me all kinds of problems. I started on the patches like you but found after further blood tests that I wasn’t absorbing the estrogen from them very well and switched to a gel. A further blood test revealed this was absorbing so much better. One of the main symptoms of both hypo and meno is the brain fog so it’s difficult to know which or both could be the culprit. If you’ve been on 25 for more than the 3 months it takes for a dose to settle I would be inclined to try a 50 for 3 months and see if the brain fog improves. I think you need to focus on dealing with either your HRT or t3 and not both at the same time. Otherwise you won’t know what is making the difference when you adjust doses. It’s a hard time to figure out what’s what, I wish you lots of luck x

[Amazon07 in reply to Knackeredandcross]

Thank you so much!!! I have a feeling that low oestrogen is and has been the reason for my decline over the years, since I stopped breastfeeding 7 years ago! I was very stable on my T3 before I got pregnant and while I breastfed. My symptoms started after my girl stopped breastfeeding and gradually got worse. The last 2-3 years I’ve really struggled. I think I’ll focus on making sure I always remember to take my T3, I take my supplements and I’ll see how the HRT helps, but will stick to the Oestrogen dose for 3 months before changing, unless GP says otherwise. 💝🙏🏼🌸

[Knackeredandcross in reply to Amazon07]

Yes, definitely stick with it for 12 weeks. That’s when it will take full effect so you know if you are still having problems then you can try upping your dose. If they can do a blood test at that point they should be able to gauge how much your estrogen has increased on the patch so you’ll have a better idea about increasing dose/changing delivery method. Also I set an alarm on my phone for my tablets which has been super helpful x

[Amazon07 in reply to Knackeredandcross]

Thank you!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼

I’ve tried setting an alarm but I can’t do it when I’m at work (work in a school 2 days/week and phones are not allowed) plus if I’m in the middle of something when the alarm goes off and I don’t take it straight away, 30 seconds later I’d have forgotten it already!

I’ve a locket necklace so today I put my T3 in there and I took it when my watch buzzed with the reminder. I’ll see if this method works! This way the meds are always handy and I can shove it in when the alert goes off! 🙈🙈🤪🤪🤣🤣

[Insomania]

It’s an interesting hormone cocktail being on HRT and thyroid replacement.

I went on HRT patches two years ago. I’m not sure I really needed it but I did to ‘rule out’ my vast array of symptoms being peri-menaupause. I did feel a noticeable mood uplift so I continued with it.

I started NDT Armour five months ago, I’m slowly getting up to the optimim dose.

One of my peri-m symptoms was breast pain days 14-28 of cycle (from progesterone). So painful. HRT didn’t help this symptom but interestingly since being on Armour, I no longer get breast pain.

In the last few months I’ve started getting hot flushes when Armour dose needs to increase.

It feels like Armour is helping to balance my hormones across the board but I likely need a HRT increase too.

[Catnutt]

Hi i just wanted to give you my experience of taking HRT along with Thyroid medication. Im presently on 125 mcg of Thyroid medication and have had a long uphill battle with my menopause with all sorts of crazy symptoms ranging from really bad migraines to indigestion to fatigue and just feeling totally under the weather and washed out. Im 59 but did not start my menopause till i was 55 so a bit of a late starter. I went to the Dr's with all my symptoms and they put me on a tablet form of HRT which gave me really heavy periods so they upped the dose (thinking that would help) which made my underactive Thyroid condition even worse so they put me on a different HRT which is a combined HRT of Oestrogen and Progesterone but a really low dose which is just right for me now even tho i have tried several different combinations. The HRT im on at present is called Kliovance. Be aware that HRT is a hormone and so is the medication for your Thyroid condition and if the HRT your taking is to strong then it will over ride the Thyroid medication - you need to find the right balance! Happy New Year

[CoeliacMum1 in reply to Catnutt]

I’m aware that oral hrt (oestrogen) has more detrimental problems for our thyroid (thyroid binding gobulins) than transdermal but obviously still an individual thing on how we absorb the Estradiol (hrt) which is the best form of oestrogen. giving the heart brain protection.

We have different forms of oestrogen's at various stages of life and basically we should be using and then getting rid of the others we don’t want to be recirculating these. We make , use and detoxify the natural occurring oestrogen’s they can come from our fat cells and adrenals … often these are our problems causing oestrogen dominance and not always the hrt form, we can look after our liver to help this detoxification… there’s a gene that can cause many of us to be poor detoxifiers along with lifestyle factors.

[Amazon07 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

My friend swears by coffee enemas for liver detox! I tried it a few times and I felt great afterwards! X