I've been taking Betaine HCL + pepsin and gastric enzymes for a while now and it has worked well. My acid reflux has virtually disappeared.
So over the weekend, I found myself with a wicked craving for crispy duck. So the lovely and obliging Mr GB took me out for a Chinese at which point, I prompty yummed up a quarter of gorgeous crispy duck, some pancakes, onion and cucumber and a big old glob of plum sauce... followed by a naugthy portion of banana fritter and some ice cream... hmmm.
Or so I thought.
...becasue I forgot to take my Betaine HCL pills to the restaurant. By the time we got home, it was some time later and I got distracted making tea and feeding my cat a bit of leftover duck I had saved for him and again forgot to take them. By the time I went to bed, I figured it was too late and so I plunged into my duvet, happy as a well-fed GB can be.
Oh my God...
A few hours later, I thought I was dying. In fact, it's three days later and I am still sick. I've tried everything: lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, bicarb, antacids - even taking HCL several hours after a heavy meal (you can apparently do this in an extreme emergency) and out of desperation an Omaprozole I had floating round in my medicine cabinet. Nothing has helped.
As fate would have it, I had a follow up visit to my GP (I have super low vitamin D levels, but that's another story). He prodded me a bit and now I'm being sent for an ultrasound.
My GP has finally concluded that I might have a stomach/ digestive problem. *queue the sound of angels singing* He said that I appear to be in billary distress.
So I was wondering:
Does anyone know more about the fact that HCL use will eventually "retrain" the stomach to produce acid and when that happens, you should stop taking the medication? I read this somewhere, but I don't know how true it is.
Does anyone else suffer from billary reflux? From what I can tell, it's a bugger to treat.
I had my gallbladder out 12 years ago and since then I've had billous attacks from time to time. Does taking Betaine HCL help/ make billary reflux worse?
I genuinely can't tell anymore. All I know is that I feel like I have swallowed a bucket of lava and my liver is about to open my ribcage like a gate in order crawl off and leave me.
Damn you crispy duck with pancakes *shakes feeble fist*
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Gravata_Bblu
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It sounds like me until i found out i mayhave ibs and my gp gave me the fodmap diet to follow which include be gluten free. I hope you find your way to recovery soon
Hello Gravata Bblu,
Hypothyroidism contributes to hypochlorhydria and can cause the gallbladder to become sluggish and congested which hinders the livers ability to detoxify which in turn hinders the T4-T3 conversion. I don't know what happens in the absence of a gallbladder.
Your lovely Chinese duck ( which I absolutely love) is a very fatty meat.
I know you have had your gall bladder out so perhaps you shouldn't be eating fatty stuff .? ? .. I don't know as have my gallbladder.
A healthy functioning gallbladder, bile flow, pancreatic function, and hormone balance all are required for a healthy functioning liver and system overall.
Proper fat digestion relies on healthy bile production from the liver. The liver filters toxins (bacteria, viruses, drugs, and other foreign substances the body doesn't want) and sends them out via the bile which is made in the liver by liver cells. A healthy liver produces about a quart to a quart and a half of bile daily.
Many people suffering hypothyroidism have unexplained unexplained liver biochemical test abnormalities until hormone replacement meds are balanced.
Bile also acts as a key factor in the absorption process of fat-soluble vitamins such as A, D, E and K.
Since 20% of the thyroid hormone, thyroxine or T4 is converted into its usable counterpart, T3 in the gut, it is important to get gut issues sorted.
Although hypothyroidism can contribute to low stomach acid, low stomach acid can also contribute to hypothyroidism. Datis Kharrazian states .....[.... The digestive dysfunctions stemming from low stomach acid likewise set the stage for autoimmune disease, chronic stress, and poor absorption of nutrients, all of which can lead to hypothyroidism. ...].. ...
It is thought that using Betaine will encourage the gut to start producing its own stomach acid once conditions are favourable but this can takes some time ( if ever). I think Betaine HCI should always be used alongside biliary support and digestive enzymes.
Most biliary support comes with Vit C which I can't take .. so supplement Taurine which is an amino acid known to aid biliary function.
I don't know about supplementing biliary support in the absence of a gallbladder or about biliary reflux .... Perhaps you should be looking into supporting the liver. ? .
Hopefully others will comment who are in your same situation.
Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
My GP is still adamant that I don't have hypothyroid, becasue despite the fact that I have tested positive for antibodies, my TSH is "normal".
You are of course completely right: Don't eat heavy fatty meals... although it was a one-off treat, and I thought I'd get away with it.
As I understand matters, the stomach has two major valves. One at the top where it connects with the aesophogus which lets chewed food in and one at the bottom, called the pyloric valve which lets food out into the small intestine.
If the top valve doesn't work, then you get heartburn/ GERD. Betaine HCL and pepsin help to settle and strengthen the top valve.
Normally these two valves work in sync with one another - but in the case of billary reflux the pyloric valve doesn't work properly, so the contents of the intestine leaks back into the stomach, causing all kinds of upset to the stomach lining. So you're literally gagging on your own pre-poop. Lovely!
The gallbladder acts as a reservoir for the stomach. It stores bile and when your stomach senses big business in the form of a heavy meal is on the way, the brain sends a message to the gallbladder to dump more bile into the stomach to help digest the food.
In the case of no gallbladder, you have lost that little reservoir. Your liver just drip-feeds bile into your stomach 24/7.
Without a gallbladder, you basically have bile dripping into your digestive system all the time. In most cases, this is fine. In about 30% - 40% of cases, it causes irritation of the stomach, billary reflux, and vitamin deficiencies (so I have now discovered). I also read a study somewhere that 98% of subclinical Hashimotos cases have billary issues.
If you are positive for Hashimotos,some GP's will prescribe when your TSH reaches >5.0.
TSH is highest in the morning before eating. When you next have your thyroid hormones blood tested, ensure to get an early morning appointment and fast.
I have had the Blue Horizon tests - those came back with a TSH of 4.2 and positive for both TPO and TGAb. TPO was High.
My GP didn't want to know. He said it was all normal. I went to a private endo who refused to look at the test and was basically a massice ass. He said I had less than 1 in 10,000,000 chance of developing Hashimotos.
So, we are locked in a bit of a Mecican Standoff.
I kicked up a huge fuss at the doctors' and so now I am a 'special case' who is dealt with my the senior GP. At least he listens to me and so I am trying to steer him towards the right diagnosis as diplomatically as I can. It's going to take time, unfortunately.
Doctors often show complacency over testing thyroid antibodies because there is no additional offered treatment. It is up to ourselves to become educated and endeavour to reduce high levels through optimal thyroid hormone replacement meds, a gluten free diet and various supplements.
Well done for kicking up a huge fuss. It takes effort when we feel so ill but sometimes needed with thyroid issues.
You have been unfortunate to have an idiot GP and endo.! ! ..
If you wish to you can email louise.warvill@thyroiduk.org.uk for a list of sympathetic endos/doctors that members have had positive experiences with. Be aware that most are private and may involve travel.
Flower.
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Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.
i would take my health into my own hands and realize that you have autoimmune disease, which is quite serious and the cause is Gut issues, according to functional medicine.
I certainly have taken my health into my hands. You have no idea how hard I've fought. I am self-medicating to a large extent as I have pernicious anemia as well. The only thing I am not taking is thyroid meds - simply because I am not confident that I can manage it by myself from the get-go. I am hoping that with supplementation and lifestyle management I might be able to send myself into remission. I'm giving it a try for now.
I think my gut issue is simply a mechanical complication to gallbladder surgery I had. It's quite common and in the long term, has the possibility of causing all these problems.
There is nothing they can do about it now. My gallbladder is gone* and so I need to learn to live with the consequences of it.
Normally it's fine. I just had a bit of a blow-out and so I paid the price.
*I was advised have my gallbladder removed it because becasue I had large gallstones which could have potentially shifted and damaged my billary ducts. This is a potentially life threatening situation and so I didn't really have a choice.
I have no doubt your gallbladder malfunctioned due to low thyroid or autoimmune issues, its very common. A bad Gut and food sensitivities, is THE CAUSE of Autoimmune disease, according to research by functional medicine. The point is and no one seems to get it!!! Is that you MUST address the Gut and Address the immune system. i have joined Dr. Isabella Wentz's email list on how to find the root cause of hashimotos and and put it into remission, this works for other autoimmune disease as well, like pernicious anemia. Maybe you should look into functional medicine, because mainstream has nothing to offer...but surgery and drugs.
You have no gall bladder whuch means that there is no extra shot of bile available to help you digest fatty foods..... But you ate a crispy duck and then never took any betaine.... So the fatty meat was not broken up in your stomach. It was left to slip into your intestine , where, it was left to decompose by rotting.... Ok. How long do you think it will take a piece of fatty meat to decompose?
Then, you took omaprazole which would have got rid of any acid you had which might be helping. the digestion!
Your poor poor digestive system. Afraid you may have to wait this one out. And make absolutely sure that you dont forget the betaine again..... It does seem to be true that it helps your stomach to make its own acid again.... After about 4 years my husband is finding he doesn't have to rely so much on them. How long have you been taking betaine and how many do you take with each meal?
The biliary reflux means that the bile from the small intestine moves backwards into the stomach because the valve has failed to stop it..... Your problem must be that now the gall bladder no longer stores the bile made by the liver. there is no big flood of bile when food needs digesting, instead there is a constantl drip into the gut, whether its needed or not.... So there is too much bile in the gut with nothing to do if there is no food to digest, but not enough bile to digest fatty food which has not been broken down by the stomach.
Seems to me, you need to keep on with the betaine to break stuff down in your stomach, and eat regularly to give the constant stream of bile something to work on....
Sorry this is a bit of a ramble.. Just trying to show you how the system appears to work... and why combining omeprazole with betaine is a bad idea. Hopefully everything will settle down after a few days as the duck passes through......
Ah! I just wrote the reply above, but i must have been writing whilst you too were adding your reply. GB. Yes, the way you describe it shows you understand how the system works......... So.... Hopefully you can ride this one out.
Has your doctor bothered to check the free t3 and t4? Without knowing what they are he cannot discount hypothyroidism..... Suggest you do private testing.
You are correct. Things seemed to have settled down this morning.
I read that African Red Bush Tea is good for the stomach. It also contains loads of minerals ( iron, calcium, potassium, copper, fluoride, manganese, zinc, magnesium and alpha hydroxy acid. It also contains antioxidants like aspalathin and nothofagin, and the extremely potent and versatile phenolic compounds.). It also contains calcium, manganese, a little fluoride and an agent that activates vitamin K.
I started drinking some last night and this morning I am much better. I will keep sipping the red bush, black with no milk and sugar until the storm passes.
Here is a link to a study that shows that people with no gallbladder often have a magnesium deficiency.
I also suspect that this dysfunction might also be the cause of my B12 deficiency and potentially many of my hypothyroid symptoms.
Surely your TSH is almost at the point where they admit you are hypo? What range is your GP's lab using?
Thanks for posting, I learned a lot.. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/126... - small but interesting study, linking into hypercholestolaemia or however it is spelled.
just looking for a ref for your 98 per cent figure.
Oh, Aspmama, you have no idea how many times I've been round the mulberry busy with my GP on this issue. Basically, he doesn't want to know until I hit a TSH of 10 and that's that.
At the moment, I am working on convincing him by erosion. We are eliminating every possible cause until he has no other option but to agree with me. It's stupid, it's a waste of time and money, but that's the way we're going.
The same guys did another study and think those over 60 with bile stones should be screened for hypo...
in reply to
They muse... "Treatment of subclinical hypothyroidism is recommended if it is associated with changes in the cholesterol level, cardiovascular effects, or neuromuscular symptoms. Short-term studies have demonstrated that a positive effect on these symptoms may be achieved with early replacement treatment with l-thyroxine (23, 24). Thus, also patients with subclinical hypothyroidism and CBD stones might benefit form the T4 replacement therapy in general. The role of such therapy in preventing recurrent stone formation has not yet been studied."
Just eaten two slices of new baked orange polenta cake. Rushing for the betaine now.
If your gut is on fire from either having taken too much HCL or not enough or eaten really large meal... one instant relief is to drink water with as much Baking soda as you can take. This would be something like a teaspoon in an 8 oz glass of water.
...the only problem with drinking it all the time is that it has lots of sodium in it and if you have Edema (excess fluid) in your lower legs, then this will add to that. The good thing is your stomach on fire will be gone!!!
If you are taking apple cider vinegar, betaine HCL then do not take anti acids, bi-carbonates, Omeprazole. That's completely stopping the acid from helping you digest, and create bile. It's like stepping on the gas and brake pedals at the same time.
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