Good Reason to Live

[MarkYoung]

“every patient who has survived a period of suicidal thoughts or actions reaches a point where they say . . . ‘I’m so glad I’m alive’.”

-- Medical Director and owner of Philmont Guidance Center, over 15 years experience, Daniel G Hartman, MD

This does not describe me.

I have Borderline, Bipolar (the type depending on which psychiatrist you ask), PTSD (some say yes, some said no), Major Depressive Disorder, and Personality Disorder NOS, with Chronic Suicidal ideations complicated further with an unexplained, neurological movement disorder.

As I understand it, people with depression and who have suicidal ideations want to live, they just don't see a way out. As Dr. Hartman says, people who have attempted regret it at some point, usually immediately after. And this coincides with those people I have met in therapy groups and hospitals. But I have had a low will to live for the past decade or so, and I have lost my instinctive drive for life that seems inherent in the human species.

Even if I had the power and riches of Donald Trump, and the body of an athlete, I still would not want to live a long life. If a genie came to me and granted me 3 magical wishes, likewise I would not want to live a long life either. The earth, and this stinking mortal plane of existence is simply not worth it to me, and I am puzzled and envious of those who continually struggle with life's aches and pains.

I have been on over a dozen ineffective medications, I can't have anti-depressants, I have been hospitalized 5 times this summer in 4 different hospitals and been under the care and counseling of more people than I can count on my hands and toes just this year, of different levels of experience, of different backgrounds and races.

So you are probably trying to come up with something to say. But before you do, I have a list of common reasons I have heard and read that either do not apply, or that I have already considered and discounted.

+ Thinking of everyone who will miss me makes things worse. I am draining resources for those few who do care. I am not worth the amount of resources spent on me. This is how justice is met out, and in the long run, the only way I can care for my family back.

+ An escape from temporary pain is not the reason. While some days and many moments are painful, I have enough self-awareness to realize where it comes from, what causes it, and what triggered it in the moment. I can quickly locate and isolate the source. Pain and discomfort, in any form, does make matters worse but it is not the inherent reason.

+ I am suicidal, even without depression being present.

+ My suicide attempts are not based on quick, impulses. My attempts, aborted and otherwise, are part of long-winded planning, plotting, logistics, and hours, or days, of careful consideration and/or research, including contingency plans and thoughts about what would happen if I didn't go through with it or if the attempt failed. Because of this, standard delay and distraction tactics do not work.

+ Don’t pull an argument about what I’ll be missing out on;

I know what’s on the other side for me.

+ The Suicide Help hotlines are useless to me, and will make me feel worse.

+ Do not provide positive assurance while discounting negative probabilities. In fact, when someone usually tries to assure me that things will get better, they get worse.

+ My basis is from a mathematical pattern that forms a logical thought process. Perhaps one of the most difficult aspects of finding good therapy help is that I am a creature who intakes and processes the environment logically, but reacts emotionally. As such, emotional comforts can't be received into my mind because they are illogical. And all of the smartest people I know and talked to are silent, with no usable advice.

+ I have a large support system; more than a hundred people have offered to be there for me, and to be someone to talk to. And it makes me feel worse knowing I have this, and I struggle still.

+ I have a social group of people I can meet and hang out with. I am not sitting alone in a dark room every day.

+ I had once studied psychology, in school and independently recently; true or not, it feels like I already know most of the tips and tricks in the book.

+ Group therapy sessions often make me feel worse.

+ I am a difficult patient case with a problem called Invalidation. There isn't much that is more heart-wrenching to me than listening to the broken record of basic, elementary information that is non-applicable. If you need your car's A/C fixed to drive in the Texas heat, having car mechanics tell you about rolling down your windows, being hydrated, maintaining the car, and saying it is your responsibility to bring it in and make the most out of driving, you would probably be frustrated too. If after talking to a number of car mechanics about your A/C, it feels like they are avoiding the subject and accuse you of not wanting to get the problem fixed. This is Invalidation.

+ Coping mechanisms don’t work.

+ Living day-by-day or ‘in the moment’ is overly exhausting.

+ My inherent problems and their origins are not secrets that I need help unlocking. I can eliminate 3-4 therapy sessions worth of questions and time-crunch them into the first meeting, or even an introductory email. All of the mental health professionals I talk to who listen are either dumbfounded and silent without any way to give feedback even when asked.

+ After living a life dedicated to avoiding debt and loans, this past year my conditions have me suddenly drowning in $38,000~ of debt accumulated in a few months of time. This comes from losing my apartment, and the local crisis team misunderstanding the nature of my address and so they and the mental hospital fined me for my stay of 13 days; and an unwanted ambulance ride. As such, the specialized form of treatment I need are extremely limited; I've had multiple professionals inform me that what I require is not available where I live.

+ My situation is so pathetic, debt collectors leave me alone, and bankruptcy lawyers do not respond to my messages or try to pass me on to someone else.

+ Mental health organizations and professionals play hot potato with me. I've been in a halfway house where a counselor asked me what would happen if I were discharged the following day, after she assured me it wouldn't happen. "I would absolutely try to go kill myself," I said, "and you shouldn't guarantee people like that in this industry for anything." She assured me that the question was just part of the assessment. ... The next day, I was forcibly discharged by the director of the program because of a medical condition, a neurological movement disorder. They were the same ones who called the ambulance, against my wishes. I was brought to a medical hospital, and there the doctors said there was nothing they could do, and they sent me back in the same condition I left. $5,000+ debt for me from that alone.

+ Most importantly having potential doesn't mean anything. Telling me you think I'm talented or worthwhile is inapplicable because the problems I face aren't about that. I'm not worthless because I can't amount to anything; I'm worthless because by fate or divine intervention, I am not allowed to. You can have the most powerful engine in your high performance car to drive through a race, but if every time you start driving, natural disasters, random events, and other external interference outside of your control hamper your ability to physically continue driving, its all for naught.

+ Medication -- Everything I have taken is either detrimental to one of my conditions, or simply loads a heavy amount of side effects with no, noticeable benefit as my body is very sensitive to the desirable effects of medications. The third- and second-to-last psychiatrists told me they were running out of medications to prescribe to me; the latest in her good conscience didn't prescribe anything. Unfortunately, in order to continue services with MHMR they require all patient clients to be taking something.

Moreover, I am fully aware that medication is only a treatment for pain, with mixed and sometimes questionable results. I'm not going to a physician with pain in my stomach and simply asking for relief. In fact, even without depressive pains, I have still been suicidal.

I have hung myself in the bathroom while admitted in a mental hospital, something staff and other patients thought was impossible. It was interrupted by my roommate who woke up and got the staff; he thought I was already dead. Having the life choking out of me was one of the happiest feelings of my life. "I'm doing it. I'm finally leaving, I'm finally going home," I thought. I was incredibly miserable and humiliated when put into 1-on-1 with staff to be watched. Then two days later, the hospital was urging me to discharge as soon as possible, even though I was still a danger to myself. I was just costing them too much money for nothing to gain.

I've had a friend take all of my accumulated medications away because I was considering overdosing, and I have regretted it every day since for the past several weeks.

I am bitter that I am still alive. I am hurt that my suicide attempts have been aborted or failed. I'm stuck here. Looking back on nearly 30 years of life, I wish I had never been born.

[Vrt14]

One of my reasons for living is good food. Do you have a favorite food?

[MarkYoung in reply to Vrt14]

Rice and rice dishes.

But continued sustenance and devouring resources isn't good enough, not for me. Additionally, (again for me personally) it's a pitiful existence to want to continue existing for the sole purpose of receiving resources and self-fulfillment to, in the rut, continue existing.

Maybe another way to put it, I don't want to be here, on this earth, so that I can personally enjoy it for myself. Working and getting money (taking resources) to then expend them for food, and then eat the good food so work and get money to then expend what I earn to eat food, etc.

[Hidden]

Hi that is a very long post. Is there anything we can help you with? x

[MarkYoung in reply to Hidden]

I've typed up reasons people tell others who are experiencing a suicidal crisis or contemplation. I have then taken those reasons and explained why they do not apply or work for me.

I'm desperately looking for someone to provide a new reason for me to continue living, or else debunk what I've provided, while keeping into consideration my experience.

For example, if someone tells me, "You shouldn't kill yourself because there's medications that can help you feel better!" that reason is invalid as explained in my post.

[tofler]

It looks like you've covered pretty much everything there .... but despite all of that lot, you're still alive. Maybe you're looking in the wrong direction? Something, somewhere within you wants to be alive, otherwise you wouldn't still be here after 30 years of all that.

[MarkYoung in reply to tofler]

Laziness. That and a guaranteed way out. It's what keeps me alive. Only 1 in 25 suicide attempts are successful, and I'd rather be completely gone without scarring people. My roommate at the hospital where I hung myself was a veteran of prison life and his mentality was rough and toughened enough to handle it.

Every once in a while, something comes up that makes me want to wait until that part/portion is over with first.

[Sarah1111111 in reply to MarkYoung]

So shall we assume that these reasons have the potential to keep you alive another 30years? If so then perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way. Perhaps rather than trying to think of reasons why to stay alive, maybe we assume that despite not wanting to you will do so. Then I guess it's a matter of asking , what is it that you could do in that time that will fill your days and perhaps not make life quite as awful as it feels right now. What is there in life which makes it feel not as bad as other times? Is there an activity or past time? You mention things come up from time to time -what are they? If so I guess maybe you could then just work on increasing the amount of time you spend doing that to try and make life a little worse than it feels at the moment??

Perhaps accepting we won't be happy but just trying to make the best of what we do have is all we can ever do?

[MarkYoung in reply to Sarah1111111]

That would be a good point if this massive load of depression I have was that long of a preexisting condition. Being Bipolar, I have cycled through bouts of depression, which have gotten more intense and frequent. As a child, through my teens, and very early adult life, I was beaming optimist. Depression was usually just a hiccup.

But much of last year, they were bearable. I could work through them. I understood when they were coming and I could put a cork on it.

My days are extremely full and overflowing with projects, that's not a problem. I'm an artist / cartoonist; I have a running comic, a Tumblr page, and a Facebook; I've accumulated over 6,000 friends and followers through my work, commissions, and stories. I run a forum with over 5,000 grateful members. I just got done spending an hour responding to members about some issues that have arisen because they think I'm approachable. If I post something about feeling depressed or sad, I get an overwhelming number of messages from people asking if I am ok, if I need someone to talk to, etc. I've lived my whole life as a useless, unknown nobody and then this. But still, I have a long way to go in retrospect to content creators, but I digress.

Yet, despite this, I am ashamed to say that I still feel this way. A lot of people would miss me if I ended my life. I must be some kind of severely broken case. I consider myself worthless and unable to make up the cost of my expenses. But everyone is really better off if I never were.

-

I typed so much. Main point is, life isn't worth constantly trying to be on the lookout for the next thing, the next hopeful. It's too draining to keep constantly busy and distracted... for too little, insignificant reward. The overwhelming negative is a hideous, monstrosity of a forest fire; the feel-good positives around are just buckets of water.

I struggle to maintain certain events for people, future expectations. Whether partners in a class project or someone relying on a ride for a major event where I'm going to be a speaker at a panel workshop ... the things that come up that make me put off my own concentrated self-made end are sacrifices I struggle with. If any of those things fall apart, my depression is poised to overtake me much quicker.

I've got to reassure the worth and value of my own existence, and this is pretty much all I got.

[Sarah1111111 in reply to MarkYoung]

I think you are right, its about finding your worth and value of existence. From what you write it sounds as if you are like me and seek validation from others . This is hard as it means we are always unsure of our worth, and can be deeply affected by what others say to us - good or bad. The trouble with this approach is it only goes so far. I'm afraid i don't have any answers (otherwise i could fix myself too!) but it appears as if the answer is around finding worth in ourselves as people even if we fail to be as productive/ helpful to society at the level we feel we should.

You say you are severely broken case because despite knowing others would miss you etc etc you still want to end it all. i would argue this makes you normal. I know when I planned to end it all I was acutely aware of the impact it would have on others, but despite that I did not want to live - it was sort of like i didn't care (only I did) that stopping my pain and anguish was just more important because i was so tired of living. Sorry for waffling on about myself but just thought i would share in case it was of any help at all - if not feel free to disregard my message and no offence will be taken!

[MarkYoung]

I wish I had your enthusiasm. Unfortunately, thinking about my friends and family is part of the driving factor that makes me want to end my own life; for their sake. I'm not able to fulfill my resource cost or investment of emotional requirements, and I'm already starting out in debt in the negative value with how my life has transpired.

[Hidden]

This is definitely the first time a post have left me speechless

[Hidden]

So I'll just say hello and welcome

[Hidden]

I think if you spent the energy on justifying why you don't want to live on trying to find ways to live and be positive you would be in a much better position. You are only concentrating on the negative and not the positive. Maybe another way is to accept that you are very depressed and to see it as part of your personality and you are not going to be able to change it? If you can accept it instead of fighting it then it might be easier on you.

It seems you have gone the full medical route and haven't found anything which helped so maybe try the self help one? Have you ever gone into mindfullness, meditation, and yoga etc? I think you have got to want to find a way to live before you can. x

[MarkYoung in reply to Hidden]

Responses like this, unfortunately, are part of what I understand to be "invalidation". Even if they were meant to be helpful, they drive me to severe depression because of the implications being made which in turn makes the situation feel even more hopeless. It feels like I'm being told that I am wrong, and not trying hard enough when by the mere fact I'm here is part of throwing my whole effort in trying to find suggested help.

- Mindfulness and meditation is exactly what drove me into this state. I'm not unaware of where these thoughts come from, how they came to be, and they haven't always existed. Psychoanalysis and just having someone to talk to isn't helpful because I have, for lack of better words, transcended that level of help. Part of why I can cram 5-6 therapy sessions worth of questions and info into the first.

- I used to be a beaming optimist, as a child, teen, and in my early adult years. But that optimism has been beaten out of me to a state of neutral realism for many years. And as of almost exactly a year ago, I have since given up and I am now a pessimist.

- There are positives, I can always find those. The problem is that not only are they subjectively relative, they are inapplicable or irrelevant towards my reasoning. The main problem is that the negatives outweigh those positives as far as I can see.

- The flaw of "positive psychology" is, unfortunately, there are some people with very real, very bad situations, and trying to press positivity in their faces does the opposite of what is needed.

- I've been hospitalized 5 times, I've talked to more counselors and therapists than I can count on my hands and feet, all this year alone.

- Nothing makes me feel more broken than mental health professionals or others basically describing me as "not doing it right" or "not applying", and most importantly the worst one of all, "you have to want to feel better."

Not to be rude I really don't, but I spent all day in mental anguish, and I failed to finish some college assignments because I read your comment, and I've been mentally preparing to type this response. I know it's very long, but I already addressed all these points in my original post.

Life is not worth fighting this depressive state so tiresomely and constantly. If this is the way it's going to be, I'd like to be gone before the end of the year.

[Hidden in reply to MarkYoung]

I apologise if my reply upset you as that was very far from my intention. I presume you joined the site and posted to ask for advice and support. This is why most people join after all.

Maybe you are expecting too much of an online site like this? No one has to reply to anyone here but fortunately they do and without them there would not be a site. None of the moderators or admins are paid and do this because they care and want to try and help others.

Everyone who responds gives genuine and honest replies and while there is a huge amount of help and support here it is inherently limited due to it's nature.

Please remember that all of us are here for our own issues as well and respond accordingly when you receive a reply. Thank you. Lil

[MarkYoung in reply to Hidden]

I'm not getting any help in the mental health industry, so I'm trying anywhere I can in hopes that maybe, someone, somewhere, says something that acknowledges what I say/write, but provides a new, logically sound tidbit I can chew on and get somewhere from there.

At least, that is what has happened in a scant few instances in the past for me.

[Hidden in reply to MarkYoung]

Agora1

[Agora1 in reply to Hidden]

I'm in...

[Xene]

What's on the other side for you?

[MarkYoung in reply to Xene]

A wonderful break from this physical, putrid reality in the third dimension we call 'earth'.

[Xene in reply to MarkYoung]

Thank you for replying. You sound a bit like an alien and want to go back home to whatever dimension you came from? It's not easy to exist on a day to day basis both mentally and physically but we fight on! I won't say anymore as I do not wish to invalidate you but I hope you find the logic you are seeking.

[Hidden]

What about falling in love? I don't much about it but based on the books i have read it always sounds like a great reason to stay alive. Being in love is suppose to be one of the most amazing feeling..... ok that's all i got

[MarkYoung]

Hidden

I'm sorry, I know you really meant well but you're right. The unconditional, amazing relationship I had, with my precious one and only girlfriend was the first time in my adult life that I had a reason to care for trying to live as long as possible. I drove 300 miles to my first date to see her and the happiest day of my life was that one, long night; we didn't even kiss but it was so very wonderful. I told her, "You're real... I can't believe you're real!"

That wasn't a give-take relationship; that was a give-give. I knew, so long as I had her, it didn't matter how bad things got. She said that if living in a wet, cardboard box was what it took to be with me, she'd do it. I would give up the whole world for her, and I was willing to sacrifice (and nearly did) my togetherness with her so that she could be happy, even if I'd never see her again.

But that relationship ended 351 days and 6 hours ago. Having her ripped away, something neither of us wanted, to circumstances outside of my control, was the most painful experience in my life. And... and right now, I am crying almost as badly as I did the night I lost her.

-

I'd rather be dead than continue living without her. It seems like the only reason I was allowed to get into that relationship was so that I could learn and understand exactly what it was I was missing, only to have it torn away from me, like all the other good, life-changing opportunities.

[Hidden in reply to MarkYoung]

That's another thing i have read love is amazing and all but like all good things there's a price to pay. It's a great thing you met her and both of you felt the same way towards eachother but the future is uncertain if you found a love that deep once you might find it again....... that's a pretty good reason to want to be here.

[MarkYoung]

I nearly jumped off a bridge yesterday. I don't feel any different now then I did typing this up.

[Agora1]

Mark, what's happening. I just happen to see your posts. Want to talk?

[Agora1]

Mark, let me know that you are safe. I'm a friend of Callmedanielle and I care x

[MarkYoung in reply to Agora1]

I'm still here, unfortunate as it is.

I managed to secure a place to live with a friend in an apartment and some hopeful DBT counseling. I finally stopped counting the days of my depression at 493~ or so days last spring. I'm past the darkness and, for now, don't consider seeking ways to end myself.

But I'm still infecting the earth with my presence, and I'm just back to my state of mind where I don't want to live, but I'll keep on doing it under current circumstances.

[Hidden in reply to MarkYoung]

I relate to some of the thoughts and feelings you have posted. The way you express yourself, how open, real and raw you are is so rare in this world. Knowing that by expressing your experiences and thoughts helps others to reflect on their own journey with mental health is a very important thing.