Hello, just asking for some views. I'm male and mid 40's. I've been off work with stress/depression/anxiety for about a month. Its not the first time but it is mostly circumstantial although I do notice a pattern that makes me think I suffer slightly-moderately S.A.D. The circumstances this time are mainly a relationship break up over Xmas that I'm having a tough time coming to terms with. At the same time I've had mounting money problems then my son lost his job. Soon after this my best friend tried to take his own life. All of these things obviously have contributed to my current state. I'd begun on buproprion at the beginning of December, as after researching decided it's the only anti depressant I was prepared to take. Others I've tried have given me unwanted side effects and buproprion (tho only licenced as an anti smoking aid in the UK, it is widely used in other countries for depression and was prescribed to me 'off licence' by my gp) is widely reported to have very few side effects. After the breakdown of my relationship and the other things mentioned above, I've been extremely low and have been on temporary extra meds (diazepam and temazepam) to get me thru the times I'm feeling at my worst. I've constantly told my doctor that I'm not prepared to begin on any other long term anti depressants as I believe that my feelings are mostly due to circumstance. I'm heartbroken and have real worries. These things are not going to change by being medicated. Today he's prescribed me sertraline and I felt pressured into agreeing, although by the time I was home I'd pretty much decided I will not be taking it and after a little research no way in the world will I be taking it. I'm not really sure what advice / views I'm asking for here. Apart from maybe does anyone else feel that long term medication isn't the answer to circumstantial depression caused by things like extreme grief? All I feel I can do know is not go back to my doctor, go back to work when my ticket runs out and basically suck up the pain I'm feeling and hope I'm coping better by then.
I know a lot of people need and are happy(er) to be on long term medication but unless they're absolutely necessary I'm beginning to think they're no better than street drugs or alcohol. They all alter your brain chemistry, they all have side effects, they are all addictive, they're all difficult to stop taking.
So for depression caused by grief or loss etc are anti depressants really a good idea?
Apologies for the length and slightly 'ranty' context to my post but the more I learn about anti depressants the more I dislike them and I'm angry that doctors are happy and quick to put people on something they'll become hooked on and have trouble coming off. I used to smoke marijauna to self medicate and stopping that was much easier than coming off prescribed meds. Was probably more effective too.
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Hi Kev sorry to hear you having a bad time.I don't think I'm the right person to advise you but wanted to say I agree with you about taking anti depressants for grief etc. I've never taken any medication in my life and got through the tough times with exercise, eating well and vitamins etc. I do have a phobia about taking drugs so that's why I probably go the other way. However, I absolutley see the need for them and why some people have to take them. If you want my opinion I would go back to work when your sick note runs out and see how you go. You can always go back and see your Doc if things don't improve. You have had a very stressful time of it lately so give yourself time. Sorry this may not have been much use. Oh and I agree with you about S.A.D. I always feel better when it's light and sunny. Took my dog out today for a massive walk and although it was cold the sun was out and I feel much better today!
Hi there and welcome, firstly I agree with you that your Depression seems to be reactive, who among us woukd not be down and depressed after a breakup. That's
Natural. To look for a pill to help this woukd be pointless, time will help and talking
Things over with friends. You will learn from the breakup as we do, we learn why
Things went wrong and how we can change this if anything needs changing.
Now I don't agree with your views on antidepressants, they probably woukd not be
Right for you, as you are probably stressed and hurt and upset whuch is not the
Same as Depression, so for you to say antidepressants are bad, well that's not
True. They are essential for some people , they get people back n the pitch but like
Any crisis there is no magic bullet or cure for Depression. Be careful of stating that
Antidepressants are addictive, this is untrue. The diazepam and tamazapn you are taking are highly addictive so be very careful not to stay on them, they are only usually
Prescribed for very short term use , up to two weeks.
I hope you begin to feel better soon, but time will help, please look after yourself
Eat well and try and do something nice for yourself every day. You are still young and
When you get back n your feet, you can meet someone else in the future, so try
To focus on getting well. Just take it day by day and you will make progress.
I'm reading books on mindfulness and trying to take the message on board. I've had cbt before and didn't find it helpful I'm afraid. I am still exercising as I mention in the post I posted just a few minutes ago. It helps to a degree but I often wonder if I'm doing it to punish myself for my 'unworthyness', even tho that wasn't the issue because I'm not unfit (if that sounds boastful and it really isn't how I mean it!)
And yeah again as in my other post I'm doing my best to be sensible with the use of temazepam and diazepam. I know from previous experience (where I was prescribed quite a high dose for pain relief after tearing some ligaments) that coming off them can leave you quite low.
I am interested in your post because of the 'unworthyness' bit. Did your breakup involve accusations by your ex about you, or do you just blame yourself. What I found hard to cope with were accusations my ex threw at me, which actually related far more to his actions than mine. For example, he cheated on me and lied about that, and then tried to stop me moving on. He messed with my head, and tried to ruin me. At the end he accused me of doing these things to him. Although my logical mind knows he was wrong, the words still stuck and I struggle to move on from them. I wonder if in fact he really believed these things or if he was deliberately trying to offload the guilt, or just plain make me look bad (since he was saying this in print around the time of the divorce but never to my face). Whatever his reasons the words resound in my head and tend to crowd out happy thoughts.
Hi, firstly really sorry to hear that you were treated so horribly. Having your head messed with is one of the worst kinds of abuse.
My recent ex actually didn't make any accusations of that kind. One of the only things she accused me of was putting her on a pedestal that she felt a pressure (or something to that effect) I possibly did but I never asked for much. I didn't expect her not to have flaws or anything, I just choose to concentrate on what I loved about her.
I think my feelings of unworthyness are quite deeply ingrained and come from my first long term relationship from when I was 16 to 29, in which I was cheated on several times and generally treated pretty badly. The trouble is when you're treated badly you eventually believe that's what you deserve. A similarity we have is that when she finally left (and I look back now with great relief and only wish she'd gone way sooner!) she hated it when I got over her and moved on. 6 months after the split I met a really lovely girl and the ex hated it. Despite all she'd done to me she couldn't bear the fact I had someone new. She was jealous that my new partner was beautiful, kind and loving. All the things she wasn't. She was spiteful and lied about things. Lied about stupid stuff like that my mother had tricked her out of a fair share of the house. Things that just never happened. By now I was a stronger person and that new relationship was lovely for 6 years. Rebuilt a lot of my self esteem (not all of it obviously. I still carry a lot of that) We eventually broke up but I'm so glad I met her. She was a wonderful step mum to my son (another thing my ex couldn't take and tried unsuccessfully to ruin) She was so good for me at I time I really needed someone like that. The break was sad but now 10 years on we're still friends.
God, sorry I'm waffling out my whole life story on here today!
So although not of my recent break up I totally understand how horrible that is for you and how hard it is to not let those hurtful words crowd out your good thoughts. But always remember that you know the truth. You can look yourself in the mirror with a clear conscience. Something he can't. Really sorry to ramble on so much! Take care x
With my ex, his last wife had cheated on him and left him, but divorced him claiming his unreasonable behaviour, which must have been hurtful to his self image, and I think he was trying to somehow work out his issues on me and make me out to be the bad person so that he could rescue his self image through me. He did not realise he had picked someone who was so used to bad behaviour I did not react as he expected, and I just found ways to cope with it. Therefore he felt forced to escalate things. He was a narcissist and they cannot stand anyone walking away from them, but it is perfectly fine for them to be the one walking away, but they still want to look good in public. I should have known though as it was so important for him to character assassinate his ex, claiming she was up to all sorts of rubbish. In retrospect I think none of it was true.
Moral of my story. Never jump into a relationship. Take your time. If they diss their ex they will probably do the same to you.
Thats interesting to me from the perspective of another relationship I was in. My 3rd longest relationship (4yrs) was with a girl who character assasinated all of her ex's. I was always a little skeptical of some of the horror stories but choose to ignore my doubts. A year after a sad but amicable break up due to us wanting different things from life, she is with someone else and I found out that I have been added to that list of horror ex's. The new man was (as I once was) her 'knight in shining armour' saving her from the abusive ex('s) of her past. I really should have listened to those nagging doubts about her slightly duplicitous nature.
I think we all have behaviour patterns. Mine seems to be to not recognise when my boundaries are being bust, and let it get worse. Too needy I suppose. My exes both exploited this, which I think might be understandable but not excusable. I do know I need to set more limits with my partners, but also try to pick a man who does not take advantage, but is a decent person from the start. What would you change about yourself or your choice of women?
I'm not sure I have a pattern, strangely. With the most recent and hardest break up ex, towards the end I had become the 'needy' one and that was new to me. I've always tried to not let past experiences alter my belief in the 'next' woman. For example, after my first long term relationship where i was cheated on and treated badly i think it would have become easy for me to become untrusting or the jealous type and i didn't. Didnt allow her to make me lose faith in other women. I like giving someone my trust, it feels like the right thing to do. Since that first relationship I'm confident I haven't been cheated on by any one else (oh there was one that slept with another girl, but...well thats a complicated one because tho it was painful to be cheated on again I forgave her as I knew she had issues about her sexuality and obviously that experience was something I couldnt give her...loooong story! lol ) So I'm not really sure what I'd change. I'd like to be able to tell if a woman is materialistic or not. I think some woman have been attracted to me because i'm quite sensitive, honest, open and affectionate but that has worn off because i'm not rich and dont have a flash job. I'm always hearing that those qualities are what women want only to find out that actually, no they mean less than an expensive holiday or a big house. (sorry if that sounds bitter! I'm sure not all women are like that! )
And no it certainly isn't excusable to have your vulnerabilities exploited. Someone who truly loves you won't do that.
Please stay just the way you are. It is good to hear you are not bitter and twisted by your experiences.The money issue is an interesting thing though. We all value a good standard of living, although what that means varies greatly between us. Do you make it very clear from day one that you do not have money? If not, then it could be that you give out the impression of greater financial worth than you really have, merely by default. It also might be that you care more about it than you realise, and it is affecting your self-image and leading to depression, and hey, maybe you too deserve a nice holiday and a few treats. Don't fall into the trap of feeling you are not worth it. Why not focus on getting your career back on track, but for yourself, and leave women aside for a while?
Ah thanks. No i'm always totally honest about my situation. I never pretend to be anything I'm not. I'm not a total skin flint or anything lol. I own my own house and have enough to treat my partner to nights out and meals etc. And i can usually save enough up for the odd weekend away and stuff. But jetting off abroad is probably not gonna happen. I am now trying to look into finding a job i'd find satisfying. I've stuck with the same crappy job for all this time because as my sons main parent it was always important that i had regular and half decent wages coming in.
...and also you're probably right about it affecting my self esteem. Not so much the 'not being rich' but the crappy soul destroying job. I know that I could have done more. Without trying to sound big headed I'm not a thicko but the job I do requires no brain work.
So when a woman ever implied you could have done more it must have hurt, because it touched a nerve. However you did what you did for the sake of your son, so be proud about it.
Anyway, from now on you are more free to choose, and I hope you find something more enjoyable.
Do you find your family have negative views on your job? If so you might be so used to their outlook that you find yourself drawn to women that think the same. Like women who seek out men who abuse them in the same way their fathers abused them, we can often perpetuate a situation out of familiarity and staying in our comfort zone. If you personally have an issue with your job then yes go ahead and change it, but if you think it worth the sacrifice in order to be there for your child then look for a partner who values parenting over personal wealth and job title.
I know my family understand why I've stuck at the job but I also know they know I could have done better. My son is 21 now and working himself so a bit of the pressure is off and I can begin to look for something more fulfilling. It's hard tho at my age with virtually no experience of anything else.
Thanks ladies, appreciate your input. Sorry Hannah, I didn't mean to sound like was completely 'anti' for everyone. For example, my friend who attempted to take his own life has recently changed his meds to sertraline and I'm glad he's on them and hoping this one helps him. Other friends and family use various anti depressants and as long as they're working for them, I'm glad. However I do worry about the trouble people have coming off them and I think people are mostly prescribed them without being told that coming off them can be an unpleasant experience.
Once again thanks very much to both of you for your kind words and advice. I am trying to look after myself. Ive used the gym a lot for when the grief/anxiety give way to slightly 'angrier' feelings (Im not actually someone who often expresses anger, well except maybe internally, so I think I use the gym in some kind of self punishment type way sometimes, I'm not entirely sure but I'm told it's good for the mind as well as the body so I think going is healthy...) and I'm using the diazepam and temazepam as sparingly as I feel I can. Mostly going all day without but sometimes using them at night when Im feeling absolutely wretched.
The logical part of my mind knows this feeling of heartbreak will ease eventually but at times the less logical part of my mind is way noisier!
Thanks again Hannah. Yeah I can relate to that. Most anger I feel I turn in on myself. That in turn makes me annoyed further with myself! I definitely over think things and usually manage to blame myself and carry the guilt even for things that are beyond my control. For example, I've raised my son mostly alone since he was 5 as his mother has continually taken less and less interest in his life to the point they now have virtually no relationship. But above my pride that he's grown into a lovely, kind, genuinely good hearted young man I feel guilty that hes never had a loving mum.
And yeah the break up really has knocked my self esteem. Ive never loved someone so much or given so much of myself so it's hard when all you have to give isn't worth enough for someone.
cant really comment much on temporary medication etc. Looks like I'm probably on it til god knows when! X
Hi the point of taking ad's is that you can start feeling better and deal with your issues. You often can't deal with these when too depressed so these will help. There is often no need to be on them long term so don't assume you will be. Therpy is usually better but you can't always deal with in the throes of a depressive attack.
Unless you can pay privately there is usually a long wait for therapy so meds are used in the meantime. There is little more a doctor can do except prescribe these and put you on the list for therapy. When you need to come off them, doing it very slowly is the answer to any addictive effects. It's up to you though - whether you would rather suffer or get some help. x
I completely hear your pain. I'm going through something similar myself and it's that feeling of unworthiness that just screams in my face every single day.
I do think it is circumstantial depression and I completely believe that you will get through it. It's entirely up to you whether or not you choose to take something to help you through the more difficult times (and there are times that are more difficult than others).
For me, I'm trying to surround myself with people that I know love me and won't judge me for whatever I choose to do. I'm slowly getting there. There will be set backs but you have to believe in yourself and believe that you will get through it. It is a cliché, but time really does heal...I hope so anyway.
Do you have people around you that you can talk to? Sometimes relying on the strength of others to pull you through is what you have to do - I've had to learn to swallow my pride and ask for that help.
It's difficult but also trying to do new things and meet new people can help - I don't know where you are based but I imagine a quick Google could help you find something you might be interested in.
Just know that you're not alone and this will pass.
Thank you. I do have people around me. The biggest difficulty I'm finding is in replacing the thoughts of her from my mind. Since I met her she was never off my mind for a second and thats a hard habit to break. Admittedly i completely fell in love with her almost to the point of obsession. Even now I find it hard admitting she had any faults, even in my own head.
I know you're right about the 'cliche' too. I was even reminded by a young friend of how I'd told him that only a few months before and that I was right and needed to take my own advice. Much harder to believe when you're the one going through it though! I think its because when life is painful time drags slowly.
And progress can seem slow. Especially when you get the feeling that other people are begining to think that you should be feeling better 'by now'. Thats maybe a judgement i've made upon myself. I think I am occasionally having better days. Its tricky because on those better days i sometimes find myself almost afraid to admit it, fearing that if the next day is worse again I'm setting myself up for a fall or something.
The thoughts of unworthiness are harsh aren't they? I don't even see the same person in the mirror that I did while I was with her.
Thank you for your advice and kind words, I hope you continue to feel better and shake off the 'unworthiness' thing too. It's a stick we're only beating ourselves with. xx
Hi Kev I too feel I am not the one to offer advice but I have to say I agree with you about taking meds for things that have contributed to how you feel, rather than the doctor suggesting ways of dealing with your feelings. First let me say it is more than understandable that you feel this way given all that has happened but the most important thing is how you deal with it. I have long term physical health problems and there are days when I feel so low but I have learnt to see the signs and when it starts I try very hard to get myself doing, it doesn't always work after all we are all human but what I am trying to say be it not very well is don't be hard on yourself try and see the positives in the negative stuff that has gone on and above all be kind and gentle with yourself and remember time can be a great healer. Try and speak with someone you trust and don't let these feeling consume you. Take good care and I do hope that things start to feel better for you.
Thanks Angus, you do say it all well actually. Yeah I'm taking one day at a time, reading lots on positive thinking (this area is something I really need to work on. Negative thinking has been a long term habit and is hard to break) and I know/hope that slowly things will improve. Thanks again for your kind words and hope you continue to cope well with your own stuff.
Hi Kev Just a little something I forgot to mention and as you mentioned about negative thinking I thought I'd drop you a line and mention it. I too have a tendency to have negative thoughts, so this Christmas I was brought one of the adult colouring books at first I thought yeah right that is going to help (see negative thinking,lol) but I gave it a try and it works plus it really is very relaxing that that is from someone who hates art and crafts. Hope this helps take care.
Kevin a good post in the answers it elicited. It's made me realise I have as much in common with everyone here - because we all have emotional problems - with those we (me especially) spend so much time trying to analyse the ins and outs of everything , and of course in stressful situations it starts affecting our physical and neurological health. I think of 'the mind' as working separately from the brain (neurology) although the mind is located physically in the brain.
I won't go into my life history, I'm 68 now, but yes what's happened in my life has affected me - a brain haemorrhage being the worst 3 yrs ago. However through that and despite my other physical health, one thing I have learnt to accept, is that we can't change the past (so why do we keep reliving it?) - However we can think about what changes we make now and work towards the kind of future we'd like to have. My EX used to say 'worrying achieves nothing, unless we do something about it!
I did - I left him after 45.5 yrs of marriage - why? I wanted to be properly happy for 1st time in my life. Despite living abroad and on my own, I am a lot happier emotionally now than I ever was. Spent my whole life trying to do what I thought was right and toplease others - selfish though it sounds, now it's myself I please, my choices and if I make some wrong ones I can live with that. I've since made several good ones though and that makes me happy? One thing I dont do, other than for 8 mths about 15 yrs ago when still in UK - is take antidepressants, except for a real bout of depression then and took Prozac, which I was able, with Drs consent, to wean myself off towards end of that timescale.
I refuse to take anything now except my Thyroid med, I know that is helping save my life bwcause I have hypothyroidism and have autoimmune problems from that and another condition.
I don't have a problem with AD's but do know it's essential Drs prescribe the right one, bearing in mind any other health issues or meds taken. I check any meds out now on drugs.com and results of blood tests on labtestsonline. I do know if prescribed the wrong AD as I was a year after my BI they messed with my brain even more.
I believe in my own 'gut instincts' when I start going downhill! I hope you get to your happy place, with the right med if necessary and that you and your son have a good and happy future - what will be, will be - if we can make the right decisions and choices.
Thank you. I know that a huge part of the troubles I'm currently experiencing is my inability to stop over analysing the past and being extremely self critical. I know that it's my own thoughts that make me feel bad and I am trying really hard to change the way I always think everything through to the most negative outcome. It's a hard habit to break as I think I've probably done it my whole adult life. The annoying thing is I know im doing this to myself. It's almost like I want to hurt myself with upsetting feelings and images. I think I've made a little progress of late and am handling things a bit better but it's always there. I don't want this sorted by medication I want to sort this. Medication in the past has only served to help me ignore and not deal with my own thought process. Sure it's stopped me hurting and I understand why some of us need that. I probably have done and some would probably say I do now. But as in my original post I feel the reason I'm so low is 95% circumstantial. Just a day or 2 ago I realised something quite revealing to me but actually quite obvious. It's just something that's hard to admit to and even harder to say. I'm lonely. My partner left me an I was instantly confronteded with a new level of loneliness. No amount of friends or ideas can fill that void. The results of this new found loneliness feel like depression but I don't think it's an illness, it's a human condition. And as it's not an illness it isn't long term medication that I need. Probably, like everyone tells me, I just need time.
With regards to your point about pleasing yourself being a priority. This is something I need to work on. It doesn't sound selfish when it's said by someone else. Yet I feel selfish if I try to do that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some martyr like selfless do gooder. But I only get real satisfaction from making someone else happy. Until recently I was certain that one of the few things every person had in common was this.- I believed the greatest feeling we ever get is from selflessly making someone else happy. Was sure that was true, even of people who didn't realise it. But I talked about this one day with my ex gf and was shocked that she didn't actually believe that was true. Wasn't that she didn't understand the pleasure of being selfless but honestly made the point that she didn't think it was above everything else. And I can see that now in lots of people and almost feel like I've been living with false expectations my whole life. I need now to work out what does make me happy that doesn't include making others happy. So far I'm struggling because all I can think of that selfishly has ever made me happy are quite unhealthy, getting drunk or taking drugs. I'm sorry I'm probably rambling completely off topic here. I'm feeling really emotional today and should probably have waited til later before replying, but thanks for taking the time to respond kindly.
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