This is a genuine question, please help where poss and Thank You in advance.
So I say sorry to you but you don't hear it because people or maybe even I, am always saying sorry to you? It means nothing, but in the moment it is all I can offer.
Also sometimes it isn't just that someone apologises because you may not know what they are apologising for (ie you may think Charlie Farlie is apologising for ruining your floor when he's apologising for wasting the milk he spilt, you get the idea).
And say I do apologise to you, will it actually make you feel any better?
- You know like I've just ruined your favourite £300 dress and it cant be fixed and it was the one you were dressed in when your childhood dog died in your arms and has huge emotional value. (you get I'm making this scenerio up, I mean I'm hardly likely to confess to ruining your dress I'm not that daft..lol. besides I forgot to ASK you in the first place if I could borrow it!).
So now I have apologised to you, but maybe I am apologising because I want you to feel better and I acknowledge your hurt (but actually I wasn't wrong or it was a grey area).
Thing is this, sometimes people think it s more important to be right than be happy, so they set aside the end result happiness, in order to be heard and weald the you shouldn't have done that axe.
The bottom line here is I was raised like the character in 'Sorry', " Sorry Mother" every other because I was always in the wrong, just breathing put me in the wrong.
So here I am again though this time not with mum. In all fairness in this scenerio somethings are my fault, Im far from perfect.
But for those who want to exact revenge doesn't a sincere sorry pour oil onto the flames as they feel they haven't got their pound of flesh.
So the question remains how do I apologise to you because, you deserve and apology, because you are worthy. Even if initially I may in the first instance, have been just doing my best. So I wore your dress to a 'charity fund raising event' and then ripped it..lol.
SO here I am willing to say sorry to you....how would you like it said baring in mind this time I may not be able to get away with joviality.
Would you like sorry, or would you prefer I'm sorry I shouldnt have torn your dress, or I am sorry what can I do to make you feel better, or Im sorry what would make you happy, or sorry I cant take back what I have done but how can I help you now?
Or any alternatives you can come up with.
I disagree sorry is the hardest word, it isnt, but being heard, saying it so the other can feel the full impact of your regret and genuine apologies so it can help them is another thing.
I've long since let go of the idea you only apologise for those things for which you are responsible.
For me hanging around in the past for too long only leads to trouble anyway...lol.
XX
SORRRYYYYY!!!
Written by
CarolineLondon
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There is ever really only one true apology and that occurs when said with empathy, respect and understanding for the person you are apologising to.
Sorry rarely make things better, but in these circumstances, it shows you care. Whatever was done or said was wrong/inappropriate/unintended.
Often words need to be matched by deeds, if unwilling to act, then what did you mean?
Saying sorry relies on the other person hearing it, knowing/seeing that you mean it.
Your apology and subsequent action may not undo the damage done, but in knowing what went wrong, in seeing/feeling/understanding the hurt caused, then... whatever you do.
My thoughts on the matter: I think firstly when I say sorry to someone it must depend on the context and the way it's said. A sarcastic 'Sorry' to someone for a minor annoyance or a heartfelt 'Sorry' when I think I've deeply upset someone. It's not really the word itself.
We can also use 'Sorry' because we want the other person to make US feel better about something we've said or done and maybe we just have to accept that we will have to feel bad about it for a while.
I think we DO know when someone means what they're saying and if you're actually worrying about it, it would seem that yes, you do mean it, and yes, the other person will believe you mean it.
Hope you had a nice outing today
I've just had to write a (expletive deleted) peer assessment........ give me strength. xx
Thanks Mandy that was very helpful, really. I agree that people mostly know when you are being sincere, but sometimes they don't.
In a practical way, would you as a therapist advise banging them on the head after if you feel it hasnt sunk in, so as to hammer the point home if you know what I mean?
I do applaud you studying to be a 'fisher of brains' Amanda, one because I think its a good thing but two if I have ANY brain questions I no longer have to get a book out, I can just ask you
Genuis, dont know why you didnt think of it sooner.
It does still leave the question of four men on a building site who read the Guardian at £1.20 every day and have a van that needs 2 litres of petrol to get them 10 miles where, 3 seasons in a row they have won the local darts game at the Dog and Duck with scores of 25, 15, 9, and 43, how much money have they saved in one year?...lol.oh I forgot and of course one has a limp and the other is diabetic.
Is it a pronounced limp or is it just pronounced 'limp'? That aside I can be of no help whatsoever to your algebraic or any other nationality's conundrum. ..............Sorry ... (See above for intended meaning)
Can I just ask (for the sake of psychodynamic theory) ........ is your reply a defence mechanism?
I set you homework of 'Research the use of defence mechanisms in relation to psychodynamic theory' Or the alternative 'Have a cup of tea (Assam), a cream bun(courtesy of Hannah) and listen to a good old contemporary folk song (courtesy of Bob) .......you choose
Okay now a Psychodynamic Theory sounds like something you need antibiotics for?
What, what, defence mechanism, avoidance tactic me?! By the way do you like my new clowns out fit I have the big shoes and everything!
Mandy I'm going to start new movement, I think I might make it Chinese they have lots of religions and stuff don't they. Our mantra will be "in the face of diversity and problems, lift up your long skirts and run away :-)"
Are you therapising me ...you wasskle.
I have no idea what I do from one minute to the next young Amanda. Love the Limping though....hillarious....on the stage with you! After 12 months you can get a clown outfit like mine if you save up
I think you're going to be a cracking therapist if anyone can keep up...lol.
That peer assessment I do hope you put 'could do better!'...lol.
Caroline raises her self to the full 5ft4" straightens her clown suit, pats down her hair and in her best authoritative voice points and says " Amanda started it "....ha ha
X
There used to be an annual called Mandy, I never got one or read it, but I thought Mandy was such a chic name :-). She's the one with the brains Hannah, just like you.
Caroline I have read your post and tried to understand the best I can as you say it is a serious question; something you are really struggling with.
So here is my understanding from what you have written.
You were raised having to apologise for a lot of things as mum needed to be in the right, am I right? (I can certainly relate to that!).
Now it is another situation you are sorry for; possibly boyfriend, I don't know. Now I am sure you are not an angel and that you play your part in some things Caroline; but you want to know how to say sorry. Firstly do you really need to say sorry for this thing whatever it is? Have you done something you genuinely regret for whatever reason or are you just worried that someone is not there or may be angry with you? These are different things.
I am aware I've put my own interpretation on this as there isn't much to go on. I'm really glad you just got asked out as hopefully it's changed your focus and you've had enjoyable day.
If you've done something you genuinely regret because you feel it was wrong it is best to say something like "I'm sorry I ........" and then maybe say why you are sorry (was it how you were feeling at the time; did you snap at someone? Did you do something nasty in which case say "I'm sorry but I did a nasty thing and now I regret it".
How that person takes it is up to them but it is important to be true to yourself and to be honest.
For example I rarely have to apologise to people as in all honesty I am very "good" and go out of my way not to upset people. But I remember on one occasion I had pretended I wasn't "seeing" someone because I had wanted it to settle before I told people. Later on I admitted this to someone and said "I am sorry I did not tell you I was seeing someone. As a friend I was not being completely honest with you but the reason why I did this was because I was not entirely happy in this situation and in some ways I must have wanted to hide it".
I knew I had done something wrong as I had lied by omission. I had friends not knowing that something was happening for me, which is sort of a lie. Sometimes as you know there is one aspect of me which I hide. If it turned out this had upset someone then I would have to apologise and say why as sometimes I feel once again I am lying by omission but not doing it to hurt anyone, just because I am scared of people's reactions to me. I guess as well it is not a golden rule that i have to tell everyone everything about me; this has been said to me; that I do have the right to choose what to say and so I bear that in mind.
So I hope this has helped Caroline. Hope you had good day in the end? If I got wrong end of the stick please explain some more; though I think you don't mention it directly because it is too difficult or too personal to write on here ; which is ok by the way and you are protecting yourself by not disclosing everything on a public forum. It is important to protect yourself which you are doing.
What a great reply Gemma, thank you. Yes I like the idea of apologising and then clarifying what Im apologising for to show I mean it
Yeah blimey if I had a penny for all the times I had to apologise as a kid, Id be rich by now and that definitely was to keep the peace. My Mum was completely off her rocker when I was young, the slightest thing and she'd go off like a rocket. If she couldnt find something to directly blame me for, she would do it by picking on my character, or if she didnt have to look after me (as a kid) she could do many more things...etc. So you could never ever win...lol.
Odd occasion she would apologise but it was so rare I couldn't accept it, it seem completely insincere stacked up against the milllions of times she punished me for things Id done or not done depending what she wanted at the time. I reminded her of Dad because I looked like him and she just saw red, it had little or nothing to do with me (but of course as a kid you dont know that).
Anyway I dont care, shes mellowed now shes older and she cant get away with so much anymore...lol. So maybe thats why I struggle with apologies.
Great advice Gemma as ever, thank you my friend XX
say sorry if you mean it. nd appologise for your wrongs, but there is nothing you can do if the appolgy is not accepted. at least you have made the effort.
Hannah you braineyak, I didnt go into details because I didnt want to muddy the waters. I wanted to get to the root of a good apology.
I know what I think is a good apology but I maybe wrong and I wanted to check and research it
Yes I do have to apologise for occasions when I have jumped to conclusions and got things wrong. I have said harsh things, but honestly felt I was driven too it. That said I am not above heart felt apologies, ill put my hands up. And even if in some instances I didnt do anything wrong Im willing to say Im sorry for hurting the other persons feelings, thats fair.
It's okay Hannah I shan't do anything under duress, I'd like to say I wish I had expressed myself differently or some cases not given a toss.
Problem is as Im sure many know on here, when you have been raised in an atmosphere where you arent told or shown how to cope with your emotions as a child, your reactions can be a tad dramatic. When often you were lied too and too young to understand that, your own abilities as a fully formed adult take longer and its a round about root to get to what most people find second nature ie not jumping to wrong conclusions and not getting overly upset.
I shan't go on but one thing I struggle with is my mother has a mind like a steal trap, she used to apply that mind to me as a child mercilessly. So if there was a question about my having done something wrong and the answer was 'Yes' or 'No', she would twist things so either way Id be wrong. She'd set little traps, hard to explain now as I tend not to revisit my memories and have let a lot go, but Id fall into these conniving traps and bingo punishment arrived without ceremony. A rule that stood today may be removed and substitute for a completely new rule the next day.
When you're a product of someones deliberate plots and plans you struggle with a sense of self, then you don't know how to react to anything your just treading water all the time. So as an adult, I am kind and caring, I am tactful but if continually pushed I don't react well, where as someone from a stable home might just brush off such an annoyance or express them selves earlier before things build up.
Basically I was taught my thoughts, ideas and emotions were completely invalid as a child and young adult. So now as an adult I have to question myself over most things (which is okay) Im just aware some people don't have to do that...it is what it is.
A therapist did say to me once if the goal posts changed sometimes on a daily basis how could you know right from wrong? Simple you couldn't.
Anyway all old hat now....Im all about improving on myself, for myself. I need to apologise because its the right thing to do and it will also do me some good because I choose to of my own free will not because anyone is making me
Also I know what it is to be deeply hurt and I have hurt the other person all be it unintentional so I am ready to apologise, but it has taken me time to get to this point.
I cant react like people from peaceful loving homes, it simply isnt my experience.
Thank you sooo much Hannah and sorry for the loooong reply. Have you come over all Dizzy! You sit down I pop the kettle on.
Thanks for sending such lovely replies you have such a great way with people Hannah.
Sometimes I wonder, I cant help it what it must be like to grow in a normalish home and definitely without dyslexia...then I move along quickly...lol.
As ever you are right, I shall get a mega phone and say I am sorry if he cant hear me after that well then a) He's deaf! or b) I need to turn the megaphone up louder!
Sorry you had to keep the peace thats sucks, still didn't stop you growing up into a wonderful woman. Oh and please dont EVER shut up! You always manage to say in 10 words what it takes me a page and an arf to express..ha ha.
Caroline I am just so glad that you have written what you did in your replies to me and Hannah as it is somehow comforting for me to have someone else articulate such similar things to what I've experienced. Hope that doesn't sound too selfish?
I'm ok, not too bad at the moment and it's lovely of you to ask, thank you. It feels a bit strange to be "coping" and I never take anything for granted, but yes I am at the moment.
Yes we are both moving forward now though Caroline and all those things are in the past as you say. Time for a nice cup of tea and peaceful times.
Well Done Gemma, Im so proud of you, you are going through so much and showing real strength!
I dont wish your mum dead, of course not but maybe now she is you will come into your own, like a slowly opening flower. I wish you sooo much Love and Happiness Gem, Im rooting for you and thank for being my friend XX
To be honest Hannah I felt extremely anxious about putting what I did (that I was doing a bit better).
I almost feel that by making that statement it is almost akin to not having a conscience (but I can see it isn't); so I have left it up and trying to deal with the anxiety of actually saying that.
Some of it goes back to expectations; (eg If I had said to mum I was doing better then she'd have immediately jumped to the idea that eg I could run my own consultancy next week or something; whereas I just want to say, I am a little better; I am not suicidal all the time at the moment. I don't KNOW how long that will last (last time I was "bad" was about a month ago)
Also it leads me to feel guilt over if I do continue to improve is it wrong that i'm still on benefits? Problem is I can do one or two things but have all sorts of problems which are ridiculous really but nevertheless real to me like if I have to get up for something needing to wake up 4 hours before and prepare. If I have "early start" eg 9.30 am I may stay awake all night incase I don't wake up on time and then I'm exhausted and difficult mood all day and I have to be extra careful with myself as this is when I can get those strong feelings of not coping and so on.
But I've been brave and left it up.
My mind is constantly "thinking thinking thinking".
Actually a brown envelope HAS literally just dropped through my post box. Thought it was benefits review and that this could be the end of everything; I could be chucked out of where I'm living if I don't get these benefits as my accomodation is related to having support needs ; but it isn't that; not just yet anyway. Anyone who is on benefits will understand the difficulties of it. You in a way CAN'T get any better because they will chuck you off the benefits but then you worry you could not cope on an equal footing with other people. Would soon sink if I had too much to cope with.
Have I ruined my statement ? Hope not and hope you all understand. I do voluntary work wherever I can and am not lazy; the advantages of that is that if I am ill I don't have to go which is why I try and make it mainly group things, so I do do my best to contribute in my own way.
Can I suggest something, you feel that you maybe in trouble further down the line with this benefits malarky. Could you in someway head it off at the pass.
So first off it may not happen. Second kind of prepare for it so it eases your mind, what I mean is research people who have had similar problems and got round it. People who worked with their disability, for want of another word, rather than against it. It's something I intend to do when my course is over.
So either by ringing someone like 'Mind' and saying you dont feel you could cope in a 9-5 job how could you go about exploring your options. And/or looking up people online with severe, maybe health or mental illness problems who work and how they achieved that (not that Im saying your problems are severe as in you have mobility issues).
My point is this if you can see that both physically disabled and maybe brain damaged people can make a life, well then your brain can accept that you can too. There isn't one way of living life. I like you shudder at the thought of 9-5 in anything other than something I love to do and I hate office politics.
Can I tell you a tale as i think real experience is important (rather than something I read).
As you know I am dyslexic now in fairness to other dyslexics my condition is mild. Some people suffer words literally jumping off the page in a jumbled mess, like trying to read a page with 3D glasses on. It also brings co-ordination problems, memory issues all sorts. So often dyslexics get bullied at school (again not one of my problems thankfully) and suffer self esteem issues, maybe come away unable to read or write.
So I went to a dyslexic conference, a young man who looked 12 ...lol. somewhere in his 20's explained because he did so badly at school he left at 14! Now Gemma unlike you he had the full support of his family, but he did say he had social issues couldn't relate to people, was often bullied so had self esteem issues etc.
One day he stumbled on making chocolates, found he loved it and did course after course. He entered competitions and won some! He found he had a real talent, he started a business alone, small scale and his family encouraged him.
The point being he didn't have to work much with other people, only suppliers. Eventually the business grew and his confidence grew, still alone, he approached 3 super markets and one showed an interest, so he managed to get the what he needed to push that forward, in the way of business advice and taking on a small number of (hand picked by him) staff.
Now I've shortened his tale but what Im trying to say is people don't always work with others in a situation where they have to cope with other personalities. Your confidence and abilities grow with practice and time, so you may achieve in a few months or years time what you cannot today.
Try not to feel limited Gemma, don't rush yourself or put pressure on, just have fun with this when you feel like it. Allow yourself just for one afternoon to think if you could have the perfect job, the perfect life what would it be in, what would it look like, what would you enjoy, how would it feel.
Increasingly I'm starting to think if I am going to make it, Im going to need 2 or 3 part time jobs (or income streams) so I don't get bored!
Lastly a number of charities have nice people working for them, they are open to people with mental health issues working for them. As you say you volunteer, how would you feel if you got paid for that job?
Sit with someone you trust (or just yourself) and workout how much would you need to survive, how much would you have to earn? If you could earn half that could you get working tax credit for the rest until you can build up. Maybe if you saw you only needed say £300 a month, still with benefits as you could probably claim Housing benefit etc, just not need job seekers allowance you may be able to build your confidence slowly, still work very much part time and ease yourself into more work because you want to not because you have to.
This may seem daunting but I hope not, Im merely trying to inspire and Im not saying do this right now. Do it when you are ready. All I am saying is maybe you don't need to be scared of the future, just maybe you have many more options than you realise.
You have this time now Gemma to think what would make you happy? You are very creative so would you love to be a writer? Well being a writer is hardwork but you can get paid for blogging, you can earn money writing reviews for new products, even for testing new products. Maybe you're good at proof reading which you may be able to do in the comfort of your own home. Maybe you could make your money from lots of little jobs rather than one big job.
Believe me you are not alone, once my course finishes I have to take on board my own advice
I merely want to open your mind to the possibility, make you feel empowered and encourage you. Please dont feel pressured by my suggestions. Ultimately I want you to feel peace of mind and not fear of the post/letters dropping on your mat!
Ah thank you Caroline. Yes I am sort of preparing myself and looking into stuff. I do have a real problem in that with my physical health issues the pain very quickly can become unbearable if I don't do the constant stretching and if I try and do "normal" stuff like sitting at a desk or table. I don't think it would ever be believed how much pain I am in ; and though I would cope say for a few hours then I would pay for it probably for two to three weeks and that is when my mood can get very dire because the pain just feels unbearable. So there's two issues; the mental health one and the physical one. But yes I'm trying to think creatively around it; it would have to be something very part time and highly paid ! because of the very few hours I could do.
I did work once and it was very part time. It was a long time ago but I had my big break down after trying very part time in that job; I was getting the disabled tax credits that you mentioned but because I had to give up the job (i am embarassed to say how part time it was so I won't) then i had a big problem with my benefits as I had been there more than two years so they assumed I was "ok" and could not just give up the job without penalty. Long story , i had massive breakdown and some of the things which I got stressed about in the breakdown eg shopping I had not been stressed about before; then after the breakdown which was now more than 20 years ago I still get panic attacks in shops; but i am getting better; I can seem ok but then when I have to concentrate eg on finding something like I did today it's like I can't concentrate and I keep losing things and making mistakes.
Really appreciate you thinking of me though and trying to help me reach solutions.
Yep that's all properly tricky. Thanks for being clear though, I can see why you'd be apprehensive.
If you did get to the stage were you felt you could work, say one day in a cafe like you do now but get paid for it and then maybe one day writing a blog each week and get paid for that. A 3rd revenue stream might be something like... I met a lady once who teaches chair exercises to the elderly! I know it seems a bit bonkers, but it would mean you'd get some exercise too if you learnt how to do it. And like me because of my mum you'd be great with the elderly. Im not saying those are the answers but maybe something similar.
I dont want you to work because I think you should have a job, please don't think that. I only want you to have some peace of mind and maybe get to do something you enjoy to expand your life in a good way? To bring you joy.
You shouldn't have to earn too much to get help as well, check. I know you've done this before but check anyway maybe you don't need highly paid jobs (which can come with more stress). Maybe 2/3 small jobs would make enough and give you enough variety so you dont get stressed or bored.
You know what Gemma sometimes your such a dark horse it wouldn't surprise me in the least if in the end you turned out to be a talented sales person i could totally see that...lol. And it you can really sell well now thats a really money making talent!
Anyway I feel like Im pressing you and thats the last thing I want to do.
I hope you sleep well and sending you lots of good thoughts for tomorrow. And lets hope something get sorted around your physical pain some day soon, thats not fun at all!
Thanks again Gemma for sharing and helping me along the way.
Caroline that is really lovely. That exercise in a chair ; what a good idea! I do have to watch it putting myself in a "supportive" role (as I would end up in with the elderly); the thing is I CAN do it very part-time maybe but it drains me when I need help myself so I do have to limit what I do. I could be doing something in a way at the expense of myself if I wasn't too careful. But in theory its a good idea and I guess I need to learn how to be more robust in drawing the boundaries with supporting people.
The cafe is in reality a half day as I don't start till mid morning and finish early afternoon but in general I do manage this though I have to work up to it and prepare myself and then there's all the winding down after. I'm such a worryguts!!
Thanks though Caroline. I do plan a lot and prepare a lot so I know of the potential difficulties with benefits and try and prepare myself pyschologically and practically though in reality I don't think I could do anywhere near the hours I need to do but we will see.
I had a major misunderstand once with my ex landlady of my local pub who thought I had been slagging off her son. Anyway the next time I was in she had a right go at me and I was puzzled coz I couldn't think what I had said. After a couple of days I remembered - I had been feeling very annoyed with myself for not enjoying myself in there and I called myself a f........ a...... She thought I had been referring to her son. I told her I understood how she had come to that conclusion and told her what had really happened.
She said 'I don't believe you but we will let it drop now'. She only wanted an apology which she got - and the truth. But the funny thing is I felt good about it because I had told the truth so in that sense the ball was in her court. The fact she didn't believe me was irrelevant.
So if I apologise now I always state the truth and I qualify it with a reason why ie I apologise for
shouting but I had a headache at the time or something like that.
I have had people apologise to me before and with the exception of 1 I have always accepted them coz they have been sincere. The one I refused to accept was a guy at work and a few of us with him were having some office banter. He suddenly turned to me and told me to f.... o.. twice! I told my manager and he was forced to apologise except he didn't. He said he had had a headache and it was my fault he swore at me! I then told the boss I had refused the apology and why but I wasn't taking it any futher. He was an a.......
How did you know about my rough knees???? Don't tell anyone else! But you know the old saying ....... rough knees - clean floors. I rest my case - well my rather heavy handbag. Been busy at college, crochet club and canine capers otherwise I would have retorted earlier - you didn't realise I was also double-jointed..... ha! I remain, mysteriously yours etc etc xx
See that person across the road with a hankie on their head knotted in four corners, rolled up trousers, a check shirt and flask of tea buy the deck chair and a pair of binoculars in their hand?.... Well that's not me ..ha ha.
I bunked off school today tooo much to do!
Wouldn't it be great if you could incorporate your crochet, puppy school and therapy into one.
I can see it now, "Come in Mrs Smith", "SIT !"..."No not you the puppy"..."Now tell me what the problem is"...while you sit crocheting a scarf. Well I can tell you as a prospective patient a scene like that would instantly foster my confidence in the therapists abilities.
Your welcome, my ideas just run out like toilet roll thats been dropped on a sloping floor...gifted my mum calls me
Toilet roll? Sloping floor? Ahhhhh........ your mum thinks you're a Labrador puppy! What a GOOD psychodynamic therapist I will be - Nothing gets past me...... esp a puppy with a toilet roll! xx
me again. i think when i say sorry i mean sorry, but to include the reason your sorry helps bring out the act that has caused offence. how can you appologise for something you have not done, or are not aware of doing. if you have caused offence but are unaware, then surely the person offended would let you know. i think that in this world today people either dont tell you why the are upset and leave it open, which gets everyone nowhere, or they take offence to an act or thoughtless words that werent meant to offend, and if that is the case is them being offended really something you should appologise for.
if you have done something and seen its impact, and you know you have caused offence then yes i would say an appology is necessary, but if the person has been offended when no harm is meant, is that your fault or theres?
i haave caused upset and offence. i have done my time and paid my dues to society, but to some people this is not enough. they still want there pound of flesh, or they want to see me hurt. i have said sorry so many times, but to some people this is still not enough. so i ask, should i appologise to these people? even after i have appologised, and served my time? or is it now there issue?
Kev I want to apologise because its fair, it's a fair thing to do. Whether I intended to be hurtful or my emotions and big mouth got the better of me, Im unsure.
I don't feel I should serve time or make amends, I just want the other person to feel better and to feel heard, that is my intension.
If I apologise and it isn't heard or accepted if pounds of flesh must be donated well Im not up for that, I want resolution and to move forward.
If the other person is interested in punishing me, well I have a history of that and whether to them or the Universe I have done my time, Im not open to punishment. I don't see it as one can not be received or seen as sincere without the other.
Im not apologising for me, merely my bad handling of the situation and maybe lack of consideration.
It isnt for others to punish you Kev if you slipped up. Im also not so sure about changing your ways, we are who we are and maybe its about trying to alter or be wary of situations that may bring the same results. Im not sure I can change , it maybe too late? But my ability to cope could change, my ability to say earlier if something bothers me rather than let it build up could change or to better express myself might change? And sometimes its not what is said but how we communicate.
Marks assertion, apologise and DONT DO IT AGAIN, made me laugh, because being human I may well do it again ( but my intention would be to do it deferentially and maybe in a better way for all concerned). My mother had an acid tongue and spared me nothing, so I learnt the same. Though my tongue is less acid I have been guilty of speaking my mind and maybe not in a good way, so that could be altered :-).
i agree with what your saying. and mark made some great points. i think most people have. but i have a question about the topic. if you apologies for an error, whether its deliberate or accidental. if someone has taken offence, and you apologise. if your apology didnt seem sincere to the person, or for whatever reason it was not as they wished, would you apologise for your apology? and then if that didnt go well, would you apologise for the second apology? what im saying is we all could spend the rest of our lives apologising to everyone. now where do we stop?
i feel that if i have done something wrong i will apologise, and i will give a reason for the apology. if it is not accepted then what else can i do. i feel thatby making the gesture, as long as its sincere and heartfelt that should be worth it, and the end of the matter, but as we all know, nobody is perfect, and you cant please all the people all the time. so gowith what feels right in yourself. not everyone is going to like it or accept it.
and there endeth the gospil according to kevin lol x
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every other because I was always in the wrong, just breathing put me in the wrong. 
xx
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