3rd transfer UNlucky - time to do something different?

[Patches86]

Another BFN today. This journey is the most unfair.

I wanted to see whether anyone who has also continued to have failed cycles has done anything differently? My consultant keeps saying it’s down to luck and as I have unexplained infertility they don’t recommend any other tests. “Just keep transferring (I have 2 C grade frosties left) then do another fresh.”

I’ve seen loads of people on here talk about ERA/ALICE/EMMA tests, NK tests, karyotype tests, PG testing. Should I be pushing for any of these or any other test? I’m already on Clexane and Aspirin (due to an assumed MFHR gene mutation) and thyroxine.

Also, I wondered if anyone switched consultants to get a second opinion and how that worked out?

Thank you. Sending love and baby dust to all x

[Angels2us]

So sorry, I am on my 7 th attempt tested today but it’s 5 days early so I am not giving up I had changed Clinc 3 times , and my doctor is saying the same as yours it’s a number game xxxxx

[Patches86 in reply to Angels2us]

Thank you! I’ll be crossing fingers for you for a good result on your OTD 🙏🏼🤞

[Angels2us in reply to Patches86]

Thank you xx

[Maryc32]

Hi patches. So sorry to hear this. I’m in the same boat. I did try a endo scratch for my fourth transfer. While I miscarried a few days later I did briefly become pregnant so I don’t know if it helped. I’m a fan of trying everything once. I’ve still got two c Frosties left but keeping them in the bank and going for a fresh retrieval in a few months xx

[Maryc32 in reply to Maryc32]

Oh actually forgot to mention my clinic said they’d do a fresh transfer but recommended PGS on any they’re freezing

[Patches86 in reply to Maryc32]

I’m sorry you’ve gone through such a horrible time and have to wait 3 months to try again. I know the pain of waiting - it’s excruciating. Why did you decide to do a fresh before using your last 2 frosties? Your post made me think maybe I should do the same.... I have very little hope of the C grades working given the “good quality” ones haven’t worked so far, and maybe PG testing is the key I’m missing?

[Maryc32 in reply to Patches86]

Well psychologically I don’t want to run out of embryos. I feel it would be a blow to have none at any point so I’d rather top up before I run out if that makes sense? (I seem to get through them quite quickly 😭😭) also the clinic recommended it if we wanted two children. She said as I’m mid 30s if these two worked and I had none left after the pregnancy they wouldn’t do an egg collection for 18 months (I’m unsure if these are the rules across the board or just my clinic) so it was better to get the embryos out now. We couldn’t decide between PGS or fresh so doing a bit of both.

The waiting is sh*t. This week I’m passing the miles stones of two years since my first miscarriage and four years of trying. It’s never ending x

[Patches86 in reply to Maryc32]

Having the security of knowing you have some embryos makes complete sense. I very well may follow the same path as you. I know when we’ve chatted previously we seem to have similar past stories too! Hopefully our luck changes in the future x

[Maryc32 in reply to Patches86]

Thank you I hope our luck changes soon too! Let me know what you decide to go with xx

[Hidden]

Im so sorry Patches. Its such a long and at times hopeless journey. I hope that this too shall pass 😔

I think im in the same position. It breaks my heart to see other girls here mentioning thyroid issues. Thats my only thing discovered so far as well apart from unexplained. I keep thinking is that the problem but then we have it under control right?! And others fall pregnant with high ths so very confusing!

Further testing is for me is trying to find the issue although im not sure where it will lead.

- After 3 transfers what i did was do a full thyroid check alongside the important vitamins (ferritin, vit d , b12, folate? Discovered a few deficiencies and am working on it. Also discovered i have autoimmune thyroiditis (hashimoto) so really important i keep immune systems healthy.

- i did a hysteroscopy as this was never done on the nhs. Didnt find irregularities.

- did blood clotting (but you are already on blood thinners.

- did not do era etc as although i read alot of good things abt it here the doctors ive seen dont believe in it.

- i did nk cells test (dont know results yet) only because i read somewhere that autoimmune illnesses are connected to nk cell activity. If that comes positive im not sure if my clinic would change protocol as they dont offer intralipid or support steroids.

Soooo.. personally im carrying on with last transfer (i do think its luck/ quality of embryo) and hopefully one will stick?

I do think when choosing my next clinic i will ask wether they do offer immune protocol x x x x hang in there lovely.

[Patches86 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you Mimi, this is all really helpful. I’ve written these down to chat to my consultant about. Please let me know how you get on with your NK results. Can I ask what the process of that involved? When in your cycle did you do that? Can it be done in a cycle where you do a transfer?

[Hidden in reply to Patches86]

Hi love. Like any biopsy you will be asked to be on barrier contraception that month as ethically they dont want to disturb any early pregnancy (even though we are ‘infertile’). The biopsy is then done the last week if your period when your lining is thick. I did it on day 26. Test is sent then to the us. I was told it takes 4-6 weeks. I did it via private consultant. X x x

[Core]

So sorry to hear this, I am on my 8th transfer and our clinic have always said it’s a numbers game, if this one doesn’t work through I think we will be looking at ERA before transferring any more xx

[Patches86 in reply to Core]

You are a true warrior! 8th transfer gives me some hope to keep going. Have you done any previous tests or did you just keep transferring when your clinic said it’s a numbers game? What made you decide to do ERA next as opposed to some of the other tests (NK cells, PG testing etc)?

[Core in reply to Patches86]

No no previous tests although have tried a scratch, steroids and heparin, got pregnant with the scratch and heparin but miscarried shortly after.

The test I’m having is an endometrial biopsy and I think as well as ERA they look at nk cells. I wasn’t so keen on the PGS just because they would have to thaw the embryos to test them and then refreeze them and I wasn’t too sure on the Science xx

[Hope_1234]

Im so sorry to hear this.. 😪

I've had 2 failed so far and awaiting results of this transfer (test day is sat)

If this fails I plan to do NK Cells testing and also ERA test (to make sure the embryo is being transferred at the correct time)

Also have you had your progesterone levels checked before your transfer

My heart breaks for you. I know how hard it is 💔 xxx

[Patches86 in reply to Hope_1234]

Thank you, Hope. I’ll be thinking of you for Saturday, the last few days leading up to OTD are agonizing I know! I did have my progesterone checked on transfer date in my previous cycle and it was around 50 which the clinic were happy with (that was whilst on cyclogest twice a day). It seems NK cells and ERA might be the next step that a lot of people on this forum take. It’s so strange to me that my clinic don’t recommend these to me and keep playing the numbers card!

[Hope_1234 in reply to Patches86]

Thank you 😊

Aww your progesterone levels are good

I would definitely look into ERA (it may be something small you need to change, like a few extra hours on progesterone. If it comes back as receptive atleast you can rule it out)

My clinic have an implantion clinic in London bridge for the ERA and NK cells testing I think they charge around £1500 for both which doesn't seem to bad. I can email you the details if you want ?xx

[Patches86 in reply to Hope_1234]

Thanks, Hope. I’m going to ask my clinic about this as they do offer it too, they just haven’t suggested it for me specifically. I’ll get back to you should I need those deets! Much appreciated 🙏🏼

[Millbanks]

Hi lovely, so sorry to hear about your BFN - it's truly awful isn't it. I had an ERA test done after 3 BFNs and it showed that I need an extra 24 hours progesterone before transfer. I'm not saying that is is the answer, but it definitely helps to know we have something to change for our next FET. So it might be worth checking it out? xx

[Patches86 in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks, Mill. That’s sounds like maybe the difference you need. I’m def going to look into doing this test too. Why doesn’t the HFEA green light this test, do you know? I’m sorry to hear about all your waiting too. Sometimes our bodies just don’t play along and it’s so frustrating being out of our control!

[Millbanks in reply to Patches86]

I’m not sure, it’s a relatively new test so perhaps it’s not been control tested enough for them to rate it. I know some clinics don’t believe in it but my consultant seems to have had lots of good results from it so I’m hopeful... xx

[LCharlton]

Have you checked your partner's sperm DNA fragmentation? Xx

[Patches86 in reply to LCharlton]

We haven’t no, only because sperm count has always been normal and doing IVF fertilization rate was good apparently. Do you think it’s something worth looking into even in this case?

[LCharlton in reply to Patches86]

It does sound like it's probably fine, but you never know and if you're thinking of doing extra tests for you it could be worth double checking since you don't know what your issue is. It's true that in our case with high DNA fragmentation our fertilisation rate is usually under 40% though.