Did anyone else find the Linden Method confusing?

A few eeks ago I found out about the Linden Method and after some emails from Charles Linden (you can sign up for those) decided to try it. I had no idea what to expect, as it wasn't told in the emails.

After paying I got internet access and found out about the diversion and the 9 Pillars. I was so scared, the website said you could do it as fast or as slow as you want, but if you implement the 9 Pillars, then you would have to do everything yourself. I was so stressed out. Then i found out that you can do it at your own pace. I called support and a lady there said that since I am living in a nursing home (psychiatric ward) for my anxiety, we would have to pace it more. I forgot to ask her name, and thought they would keep records, but that's not the case, so I couldn't talk to the sme lady anymore. I started reading the manual. It dawned on me how many fears I have and I was stressed out again. Also, finding a diversion that you become very passionate about is difficult. When i asked about the time you have to do things that do not fully engage your mind, I was told taht the kind of diversion they mean works on after you stopped doing it. How do you find soemthing like that? I was frantic. I wanted to get it right because I really believed in it. But you don't just find a new hobby, especially if you can;t go out.

So I started keeping myself busy and making little changes in my life (for example, I drink at my computer because I am often afraid of swallowing, but started doing this in the living room. I was then told that I shouldn;t do it for the sake of trying, but as I anted it for a reason. But in the book Charles speaks of facing your fears one by one.

I got so confused and thought that since I am living in a nursing hoem there won't be anyone to practice things with me (always understaffed). I kept going on in my head about finding the right diversion too.

I wasn;t anxious, just very upset and I think that made me forget my fear to some extend, but I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. Seeing my symptoms as just sensations did work, however, so that was positive about it. But I also have the obsessive thought/urge to bite my tongue and I can't see that as such.

My hobby is card making (yes, sounds dull, but then i;m not a spring chicken) and I couldn;t do that anymore because it didn't divert my mind and I kept worying about the Linden Method while doing it. so I knew it wasn't a good diversion. I tried keeping a diary, an activity Charles suggests in the audio about diversion, but was told this wasn't good, even if I just wrote about what I had done and not about how I felt. (??????)

Then I realised I had lost my hobby (the card making) and got so upset that I called my mother to pick me up so we could make cards together. I was so upset a nurse gave me extra medication. My parents live on the 6th floor of an appartment building and I;m afraid of elevators and heights, so it was way to big a step, but I was so upset. I din't dare to go with the elevator but we tried two floors and then accidentally (because someone had called the elevator there) ended up on the 7th floor. I panicked. Then we wnet to my brother's house and I was so upset I got angry with my sister in law.

I called support after I got home and they said I was in a crisis and maybe it was because I also have personality disorder (that might well be the case) and that I should get a refund. And that's it.

But I do want to get better and I am starting menopause and the last time it all got really bad was just after my menstruation stayed away for some time and that is also happening right now so I am afraid it will come back. And I do feel very anxious today. The alst days I just felt depressed and ashamed, because everyone says the Linden Method is simple. I am supposed to have an iq of 140, but I don't know how to implement it, even though I do understand how it is supposed to work.

I think I must be the only one who can't do it.

But I really want to get better

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17 Replies

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  • Sorry, this should have been in questions. I also think it doesn't make much sense, it's ahrd to descibe everything and my feelings and thoughts.

  • Hi Sterre,

    I found the Linden method website very odd. It would be great if there was an easy cure for anxiety, but if Linden had discovered one, I felt it would have made the news. Wouldn't he have won a Nobel prize, in fact? Anxiety is a very common and debilitating problem.

    The website also referred to NICE CG113. I wasn't sure what that was, but Google told me that it's the NICE guidelines for treating anxiety. Those guidelines don't seem to refer to the Linden method. Is the reference to CG113 a mistake on Linden's part, or is he assuming that most people won't actually look it up?

    The Advertising Standards Authority don't like Linden's website either:

    asa.org.uk/Rulings/Non-comp...

    So... I don't think you should blame yourself. Probably the Linden method just doesn't work very well, and perhaps for some people it actually makes things worse, as it did with you. Hopefully you can get your refund and make progress with your anxiety in other ways.

    Peter

  • Hi Peter,

    thank you for your reply. I know the method has worked for a lot of people, and even if it didn't work they found it simple. But I couldn't even start because I didn;t understand it! I understand the process that has to take place, but I don't know where to start...

  • Hi I googled this as well. I am not sure it is a scam but I do think if you only believe 1 tenth of what you read on any site that will be about right. How many people personally do you know that it's worked for? I read the reviews and I think most of these if not all are probably made up. The web is full of stories of miracle cures...I agree that you should return it and try and get your money back. If curing anxiety was as easy as he claims then everyone would be doing it.

  • Hi Sterre

    Sorry to hear about your health problems. I also have anxiety although not to such a serious extent. If i am distracted then I have no problem functioning however when i think about my fear i feel weak, dizzy and sick. Its a terrible feeling! I know many anxiety forums say, your anxiety will not kill you and thats basically what i tell myself. Anxiety is a mental condition and our brains are so strong they can create sicknesses that do not exist.

    The Linden Method is quite confusing. I read the book and his story and found it very uplifting because he overcame such heavy medication and was able to live a normal life which means we can do it.

    You briefly spoke of medication. Im not sure how much research you have done on this but anti anxiety medication can cause paradoxical side effects which can induce criminal behaviour and in turn, more anxiety! I cant even begin to tell you how to stop worrying because it feels like our minds create their own thoughts and go on their own mission but you may just need to sit down and breath for a few minutes.

    Tell yourself, you are not crazy because its the fact that we are aware of these symptoms of anxiety that make us sane! You can get through this.

    I would suggest you try to speak to someone you trust about slowly reducing your medication (unless you are medication for something like bipolar or any medical condition that could induce suicidal thoughts etc). Even if its only by a quarter of a tablet at a time. Even if you only reduce it every month, do it slowly.

    I work full time, i am currently studying the most challenging honours degree i've ever heard of and im married with a house and responsibilities. I also am extremely religious and attend church twice a week. Sometimes i feel like maybe im experiencing a burnout after several years of pushing the limits but i know i am capable of overcoming it.

    Sometimes i feel numb. I lie in bed in the morning and think i dont know if i can get out of bed and get dressed for work. The thing is, although sometimes i feel overcome by this fear, it has never stopped me from doing anything! I believe that medication nowadays is so strong that its causing many imbalances in our bodies that make us feel like this. Only last week i suddenly broke down crying for no reason and had this feeling of hopelessness.

    One of the points of the Linden Method was just breathing and saying "peace" and that panicked feeling disappears slowly. Even holding your breath until your heart skips a beat and then slowly breathing in and out, this will stop a panic attack immediately because adrenaline will fill your body and go into alert mode which overwhelms the subconscious mind.

    I think the hobby thing is a very difficult thing to do if you work full time because most of the anxiety i experience is at work!! I find googling symptoms or how to overcome anxiety only makes it worse!

    I have read about Cognitive behavioural therapy. This is apparently very effective in training your brain to think right. Most people probably need a therapist to help them start the therapy but some could do it themselves. Sometimes when i get these negative thoughts i try to imagine the thought in my head and i then kick it down and push it into a dark corner, because thats my way of not allowing the thought to beat me. You can also say to yourself, i wont let this thought bring me down, i am going to face it head on because what is the worst that can happen?

    I dont stop going out because of my fears because i know thats just giving into the fear and allowing it to beat me. It may be helpful to also write down everything that you have in life that you are grateful for, even if it is life itself. There is so much good on earth that overcomes all the bad! Those are the things in life we fight for everyday because they are worth fighting for.

    The most important thing is not to sit down and dwell on the bad, even if it means watching tv, reading books, sitting outside looking at the birds etc. Im not sure if you are religious at all but quite often people become conflicted about death and it can consume them because they wonder, what will happen when we die, where will we go, will it be painful? Basically as a Christian i believe that there is an afterlife and a place where we will see our friends and family when we die, but to be honest even if that doesnt exist, it wont make a difference because I am happy to live a religious life and whether or not it exists I will be dead anyway.

    The important thing is that you stay positive, is there a psychologist or therapist you can speak to there? If not then you need to seriously sit down with your mom or someone else you trust and say i want to help myself get through this, please find me someone i can talk to.

    Dont feel bad, you can do it but you have to stay positive and keep that goal in your head of where you want to be. Even if this process of therapy takes you a year or 2, the important thing is you get through it and you dont give up. You will have set backs and days where you feel good and days where you feel bad.

    May i ask how old are you?

  • DO NOT FOLLOW THE LINDEN METHOD - IT RUINED MY LIFE. CHARLES HAS NO EXPERIENCE OF THINGS WHICH HE RECOMMENDS AS HOLY GRAIL OF BEING WELL AGAIN AND THOSE THINGS ARE VERY POWERFUL TO BRING TO YOUR KNEES AND DISTROY WHAT YOU HAVE BECOME AFTER YEARS O HARD WORK. IT WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR DIGNITY, YOUR REPUTATION.

    GO TO NEARBY COUNSELOR INSTEAD THEY WILL GUIDE YOU ACCORDING TO YOU. THE SOLUTION FOR THIS DISORDER IS KNOWN TO EVERYONE AND THE COUNCELOR WILL MODIFY IT ACCORDING TO YOUR NEED

  • This is a poor reply, what if the linden method was perfect for someone like it was for me? Sorry that it never worked for you but its very untrue what you say about it, it saved my life....

  • Perhaps you find it easier to concentrate than all those who've found it impossible to implement - maybe you're also not suffering PTSD - which also involves a lot of grief and enormous sense of loss of safety and one's whole family - and even more importantly maybe you're not totally alone without siblings, partner or parents at this time - when someone has lost so very much they're left feeling like they'e been abandoned at sea without a life raft! Just be thankful your problem was not a serious as so many others' obviously is!

  • Wow, cant belive im actualy hearing this? I purchased the lindon method years ago, i went from not being able to leave the house to working, joining a gym, buying a house in 3 months, it is the key to beating axiety, i understand it hard for some people to "grasp" the idioligy of how it works, but ones you do it makes compleate and utter sence, your axiety is a "habbit" you have leart and continue to practice eveyday, the lindon method teaches you to unlearn this habbit, learn hown to reprogram your brain to stop reacting to life situations with high anxiety and react normaly and understand your anxious because your choosing to react this way, you are in control of your brain, not the anxiety, you are choosing to react and think the way you do because you have done it for so long you are doing is subconsiously , you need to throw away anything you have lernt about axiety and listen to the lindon method like a bible to a christian, if done and understood/followed correctly it cannot fail, hope you all get well soon xx

  • I have read about this a few times now but wasn't sure about it it does seem to have good reviews oh I don't know what to do

  • once again if you've not undergone grief work and therapy for child abuse etc and abandoned by all and sundry then maybe logic and addressing the practicalities comes easier without feeling overwhelmed by intense grief and loss - Grasping an ideology is one thing but trying to unlearn that you've lost your whole family, your sense of purpose, the best years of one's life. If one's never been told one was loved as a child and felt rootless and homeless than unfortunately that's not the kind of thing that can then be UNLEARNED!!! It's a FACT as one wellknown philosopher once said ' A life unexplored is a life that's not worth the living of' In order not to create damage on another one has to recognise where we've come from and what we experienced including the pain and abuses.

  • Reeceredd,

    I'm glad it worked for you.

    I think I wrote in my original post what I didn't understand.

    Since reading your reply I want to do it again, but I still think I can't. I also got very upset when I tried the DARE method some time ago, because I felt I was doing it all wrong and I wasn't doing enough. I always get obsessed and overthink things.

    Now I want to start the Linden Moethod again, but I really don't know how and I think I should first consult my psychologist about it, who is on vacation for over 3 weeks.

    I can't talk to anyone else because they don't understand. He doesn't understand it either, by the way.

    I'm still trying the DARE method, but I'm not practising everyday. I am getting more anxious anyway lately. So even the things I already did are now more difficult and a practice in themselves.

    I am very tired now and tried to get some sleep, put the last couple of months peri-menopause has me feeling tired all the time, but then when I lie down I get this restless feeling in my belly and I can't sleep.

    My mind is one big mess right now and there is no-one to talk to, the only nurse on duty is someone I can't talk with.

    I feel stupid and weak and very tired and restless and my mind is so busy and I'm so confused and this makes me get intrusive thoughts of biting my tongue, which scare me.

    I really don't know what to do anymore.

    I want to die because I know I won't get better and to end all the feelings, but I know I can't do it.

  • It sounds like maybe you too suffer Post Traumatic Stress after some kind of traumatic episode either resurrected from childhood or something in adulthood - domestic violence - being hit in childhood you name it - but also if one is stuck on medication there's very little hope of even grasping anything because too much of that causes lack of concentration, amnesia and confusion -I should know I naively trusted medics from age 24 and stupidly believed benzodiazepines, sleepers and antidepressants were something I needed in order to live my life - instead of which it merely allowed my then husband to get the best of me - repeatedly womanise and sporadically hit me - while I kept on saying sorry - thinking I deserved his repeated putdowns - It was when I finally took myself OFF ALL MEDICATION - on my own that I finally saw the truth - who I was with and the face I'd endured for 22yrs - and I had to leave IMMEDIATELY - the best thing I ever did - at least I could cry in luxury without being punished for it giving me even more pain - Listen to your heart, your gut feeling and start believing IN YOU - Writing one's own history is probably the most healing and self affirming thing we can do for ourselves - and perhaps get onto the 1 in 4 website for those of us who've felt so unloved as children - we only end up in these places because we felt abandoned and forgotten and told we're stupid, thick or whatever - We have to know we all deserve love but above all to love oneself and that Inner Child that felt forgotten and worthless xx ((Hugs))

  • Sorry to hear about your situation. I too purchased the linden method in desperation after stumbling across it on Facebook.

    I am not impressed by it whatsoever and have not not got any help from it, to the point where I phoned up for a refund yesterday and I will be continuing with my meds and starting CBT.

    I would not recommend it to anyone with social anxiety, it's very misleading and as has been said potentially dangerous.

  • I should have known better, but in desperation I supported a friend in signing up to an anxiety retreat run by Charles Linden on the outskirts of London.

    The warning signs are there;

    - There are multiple cookie cutter websites with the same information all leading to the same aim (your money) - anxietyrecoveryretreat.co.uk / thelindenmethod.co.uk/retreats2 / lindenmethodanxietyrecovery.com/anxietyretreat / anxietyrecoveryretreat.com / charles-linden.com/anxiety-... etc etc (all funnel you to call Jo Goodchild)

    - A dubious celebrity endorsement.

    - Miracle results almost guaranteed.

    Turns out, that due to anxiety, the friend couldn't actually leave the house to make the retreat. A team who offer to "cure" this would surely understand and offer to transfer to a later date? No. If she wanted to come to another session they'd be delighted for her to attend if she paid again.

    Positive discussion and the placebo effect will surely have an impact on some, but this is akin to someone claiming to heal your ailments by placing their hands on you and saying "Amen".

    Looks like a scam, sounds like a scam, run by people who don't care about existing customers.

  • What I find somewhat suspect is all absence of any fee structure absolutely NO INFO ON COSTS - That's not good it's opaque and virtually hooks you in - all very well showing a virtual tour of the house etc but that doesn't show you what you're in for - one needs to get the gist of what's on offer not butler service and a 5 star spa facility - Anyone who is suffering Post Traumatic Stress Disorder through trauma from physical, mental abuse - plus childbirth and domestic strife, surgical mistakes, death you name it - and if taking medication on top of all of that - it's not possible to use any technique - it's what is underneath that needs to be dredged up and looked at and examined and then worked through with validation from a really good therapist - it's grief and a sense of loss that we have to deal with - even being beaten up leaves one with the grief of a loss of that sense of safety x ((Hug))

  • I've dealt with my own history, written my own life events and read Alice Miller the world renowned author of Drama of The Gifted Child which shows how childhood suffering, being ignored, forgotten, hit or abandoned leads to serious lack of self worth - it takes a lifetime to recreate the kind of foundation for oneself - that children already loved, and safe never needed because it was already there from the beginning. I had nobody and nowhere felt safe - it's taken a lifetime to try and recover - but miracle cures like mirages and to promise that is not fair and very misleading. We all have to take control of our own lives and not succumb to medics doling out medication that covers up what we need to look at, deal with and grieve over before eventually we might have the strength to come to terms with - It takes time, lots of courage and a great many tears but its worth looking at it and realising that we deserved better and it wasn't our fault - we all deserve to be feel loved and safe as children and it's a parent's duty to do that for the child - we didn't ask to be born - nor to have pain inflicted by poor parenting. (((HUGs)))

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