Sleep Question: (Directed to Seniors)

[linuxusr]

Hello Everyone,

This question is directed to seniors, the older the better! (I am 71.5). As I look back on my life over the decades, whenever I became sleepy during the day, that sleepiness was gradual.

Starting about one-half year ago came an abrupt, noticeable and, for me, disturbing change. As we grow older our bodies change. But we have no owner's manual! It's almost impossible to say if a change is due to aging or something else. But we can compare notes, and that's where I need your help.

The new change that I'm talking about that disturbs me is that, during the day, I may become suddenly sleepy, something immediate, almost like a wave, that practically compels me to lie down. This frightens me. Yet, when I do sleep and wake up, I feel better. So this makes me think that the problem was being tired that manifested itself in a new way. If rest didn't help, then I'd probably visit the GP ASAP.

Meanwhile, FYI, I try to maintain a disciplined sleep schedule: I go to bed at the same time every night; I wake up at the same time every morning; I sleep for 9.5 hours per night; I nap no more than two times per day and only for 30 minutes (light sleep only). If you fall into a deep sleep during the day (Stage III, slow wave sleep) it can disrupt your night sleep. Plus, I'm improving my diet and exercising during the day.

So, to recap, does anyone else, seniors in particular, experience this sudden sleepiness onslaught and what's your view on it? Much appreciated. (My psychiatrist has prescribed a fairly extensive bloodwork panel but I don't have those results yet).

[b1b1b1]

Try drinking a cup of coffee or taking a walk or doing some exercises. If you sleep 9 1/2 hours a night you should not need two naps per day during your 70s. See what your blood tests show and keep in mind that excessive tiredness can also be a symptom of depression.

[linuxusr in reply to b1b1b1]

Thank you. Yes, I must await my blood tests result. I'm aware of the connection between depression and sleepiness but I am mostly anxious. However, it could be that I do have some depression that I'm not fully aware of. I am exercising and sometimes that does give me energy. Coffee later than the morning would not be a good idea . . . preventing me from sleeping when I really do need to sleep.

[BabeC in reply to linuxusr]

Hello. Sleep patterns can change through our lifetime. Through all the years, I've had sleep issues (since I was a kid) - cannot get to sleep & then, either sleep 5 hrs or 10 hrs. Exercise helped at times. I was never a napper as it seemed to make a bigger mess of my sleep. Napping is fairly normal as we age. We are less active, thus less stimulation. When you worked full time, did you get this same sleepiness during the day? Do you do anything to help you stay awake during the day? Getting sleepy after a meal is not unusual. As soon as we eat the majority of our oxygenated blood supply is diverted to our GI system. That's why we don't eat and exercise at the same time. A slow gentle walk after you eat is a good idea because it keeps you stimulated while you are digesting. But that's the real reason you don't eat before you go to swim. As we get older and are less active our body metabolism adjusts to a different level of calorie burning therefore energy. Unless you don't like taking naps there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking naps during the day lots of people do it. Always a good idea to get a Baseline blood work done. Perhaps your iron is low, not uncommon as we age. And easy enough to fix.

[linuxusr in reply to BabeC]

Wow, BabeC, your detailed comments are much appreciated. Indeed, I notice that in the U.K. that there is a long history, which you find reflected in literature, of people taking a walk after a meal to "aid the digestion." That's excellent advice for countering the tiredness we experience on account of a diverted blood flow. And, yes, I must get my lab results, which my psychiatrist has ordered, to rule out (or in) any physical deficits. And you are also right that sleepiness kinds of goes with the territory of being less active as we age. Meanwhile, I am trying to dot every i and cross every t: limiting myself to two naps of no more than 30 minutes (to avoid Stage 3, slow wave sleep); keeping to the same wakeup and bedtime schedule--for example, if I become very sleepy before my bedtime, I wait it out--; exercising daily, eating nutritiously, etc. Thanks again for your advice and comments.

[BabeC in reply to linuxusr]

Hi again. It really sounds like you are doing everything to help yourself. I, personally, believe the Lord gives us nap times as we age, because in earlier times, no nap time available, except on your lunch break. Be well & don't worry ~!😊

[linuxusr in reply to BabeC]

Many thanks! "Don't worry!" -- That's a tough one!

[BabeC in reply to linuxusr]

Worrying is a decision & a learned response to the world - de=program yourself. Look up: rockbottomhope.org/inspirat...

This helps - you are NOT helpless !!!👍

[Cheetahone]

Hi linuxusr,

I use iOS on my Mac lol.

I’m 68 and do get tired suddenly after I eat. My GP did bloodwork and found that I’m low on iron so she prescribed iron supplements. They have helped.

I also must say that I am vegan 🌱 so I eat healthy and it also helps my depression and anxiety.

Good for you for sleeping regularly, eating healthy and exercising. All ways to live better and longer.

Take care and hope you feel better.

[linuxusr in reply to Cheetahone]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. As least you know that after you eat, you get suddenly tired, that you make the connection. I just remembered that my psychoanalyst (M.D.) told me that after eating that blood flow to the gut increases and decreases to the brain which could explain that. What scares me is the suddeness when I don't know the reason. It could be that I'm "just tired," but I perceive this as an attack on my mind, my body taking over, etc. Well, I guess that's not surprising as my principal disturbance is mind-body dissassociation, where my mind and body are disconnected.

[RS1974]

Yes I get that sudden sleepiness. Im 50 and in pre menopausal. The last year I only sleep 5 hrs a night and nap during the day.

[marsbarr in reply to RS1974]

Been there,doing that

[linuxusr in reply to marsbarr]

?? I don't understand.

[marsbarr in reply to linuxusr]

I am experiencing this. I get sleepy after eating

[gettingsomewhere in reply to marsbarr]

I googled this and in some cases blood sugar levels can cause sleepiness. Worth checking out. When I'm tired anyway too many carbs can cause drowsiness.

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

Hmm. Blood sugar levels? Thanks. I'll check this out. And, yes, sleepiness after eating seems to be the case--maybe after exercise too.

[linuxusr in reply to RS1974]

Thank you for this. Do you feel that this sudden sleepiness is due to changes as we age? I never remember experiencing this when I was younger. That's why it's frightening.

[RS1974 in reply to linuxusr]

Yes I think it's because we're aging. It is scary

[linuxusr in reply to RS1974]

Scary? You said that again! Where's the darn owner's manual?

[RS1974 in reply to linuxusr]

Yes I wish we did have owner's manual for aging, and especially the damn hot flashes

[linuxusr in reply to RS1974]

Well, I think a lot is known about "hot flashes." Do you want me to investigate or leave it alone?

[RS1974 in reply to linuxusr]

Sure investigate it. Thank you 😊

[linuxusr in reply to RS1974]

Hello RS1974. It took me a bit to get back to you but I did not forget about you. In the following, I asked ChatGPT to use only science/health based resources available in the U.K. --

Hot flushes, also known as hot flashes, are a common symptom experienced by women undergoing menopause. They manifest as sudden feelings of intense heat, often accompanied by sweating and a rapid heartbeat. These sensations typically begin in the face, neck, or chest and can spread throughout the body. According to the NHS, hot flushes can occur several times a day or just once or twice a week, varying significantly among individuals.

NHS.UK

The exact cause of hot flushes isn't fully understood, but they're believed to be linked to changes in hormone levels affecting the body's temperature control. During menopause, declining oestrogen levels can disrupt the hypothalamus, the part of the brain responsible for regulating body temperature, leading to these sudden heat sensations. While hot flushes can be uncomfortable and sometimes distressing, they are not dangerous. Most women experience them for several years before they gradually decrease in frequency and intensity.

NHS.UK

There are several strategies to manage hot flushes effectively. Lifestyle modifications can play a significant role; the NHS suggests wearing light clothing, keeping rooms cool, reducing stress, and avoiding known triggers such as spicy foods, caffeine, and alcohol. Regular exercise and maintaining a healthy weight may also help alleviate symptoms.

NHS.UK

For those seeking medical interventions, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) is considered the most effective treatment for relieving menopausal symptoms, including hot flushes. HRT works by replenishing the declining hormone levels in the body, thereby reducing the frequency and severity of hot flushes. However, HRT may not be suitable for everyone, and it's essential to discuss the benefits and risks with a healthcare professional.

NHS.UK

Non-hormonal treatments are also available. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) has been shown to help some women manage hot flushes by altering their perception and response to these symptoms. Additionally, certain medications, such as clonidine, gabapentin, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), may be prescribed to help reduce hot flushes, especially for those who cannot or prefer not to use HRT. It's important to consult with a healthcare provider to determine the most appropriate treatment based on individual health needs and preferences.

NHS.UK

Hope this helps!

[RS1974 in reply to linuxusr]

Thank you so much sweetie

[hypercat54 in reply to RS1974]

In the UK we call them hot flushes. I remember playing darts in a pub one night in the middle of February with snow on the ground and I got a bad one. I stood outside in a t-shirt fanning myself with a beer mat

[RS1974 in reply to hypercat54]

😆 lol I got them in All seasons. They're annoying.

[linuxusr in reply to hypercat54]

Hi hypercat54! Here's some information I dug up for RS1974. I used ChatGPT and asked that it limit itself to science/health resources available on the Web and in the U.K. ---

Hot flushes, also known as hot flashes, are a common symptom experienced by women undergoing menopause. They manifest as sudden feelings of intense heat, often accompanied by sweating and a rapid heartbeat. These sensations typically begin in the face, neck, or chest and can spread throughout the body. According to the NHS, hot flushes can occur several times a day or just once or twice a week, varying significantly among individuals.

NHS.UK

The exact cause of hot flushes isn't fully understood, but they're believed to be linked to changes in hormone levels affecting the body's temperature control. During menopause, declining oestrogen levels can disrupt the hypothalamus, the part of the brain responsible for regulating body temperature, leading to these sudden heat sensations. While hot flushes can be uncomfortable and sometimes distressing, they are not dangerous. Most women experience them for several years before they gradually decrease in frequency and intensity.

NHS.UK

There are several strategies to manage hot flushes effectively. Lifestyle modifications can play a significant role; the NHS suggests wearing light clothing, keeping rooms cool, reducing stress, and avoiding known triggers such as spicy foods, caffeine, and alcohol. Regular exercise and maintaining a healthy weight may also help alleviate symptoms.

NHS.UK

For those seeking medical interventions, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) is considered the most effective treatment for relieving menopausal symptoms, including hot flushes. HRT works by replenishing the declining hormone levels in the body, thereby reducing the frequency and severity of hot flushes. However, HRT may not be suitable for everyone, and it's essential to discuss the benefits and risks with a healthcare professional.

NHS.UK

Non-hormonal treatments are also available. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) has been shown to help some women manage hot flushes by altering their perception and response to these symptoms. Additionally, certain medications, such as clonidine, gabapentin, or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), may be prescribed to help reduce hot flushes, especially for those who cannot or prefer not to use HRT. It's important to consult with a healthcare provider to determine the most appropriate treatment based on individual health needs and preferences.

NHS.UK

Hope this helps.

[hypercat54 in reply to RS1974]

The best relief I ever got was being at home and ripping my clothes off and got into a cold shower. Marvellous!

[linuxusr in reply to hypercat54]

Well, that's interesting! As I've been investigating remedies for anxiety in addition to medication and therapy, I discovered different techniques to stimulate the vagus nerve. Stimulating the vagus nerve engages the parasympathetic branch of the ANS (Autonomic Nervous System) which is responsible for rest and digestion and counters the "fear/flight" response, the other branch of the ANS.

Well, guess what? Another way to stimulate the vagus nerve is via COLD WATER as in your shower! You can also do it my drinking cold water or placing ice behind your neck. Here in the Dominican Republic there is no hot water (except for tourists). So every time I take a shower, where the water is very cold, I also come out refreshed, relaxed, and calm. This is vagus nerve stimulation.

[gettingsomewhere in reply to linuxusr]

Hi the Wim Hof method goes into this more fully FYI.

In a cold climate having a cold shower first thing isn't so appealing however I do let it run cold until that first gasp! Apparently 30 seconds is enough.

This is an interesting post and delving into lots of things. Keep us posted when you get your lab results!

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

Thanks for introducing me to the Wim Hof method! Yes, whether in or out, the U.K. is a bit cold. I will keep you posted, gettingsomewhere! Thank you.

[gettingsomewhere]

I hope you get some answers to explain these recent changes.

There maybe many factors at play especially if you're on medication. Sounds like you are looking into everything which is good.

My husband is almost 73 and often naps during the day especially if we've had a busy schedule with the grandkids etc. But he can keep himself awake if needed.

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

Thank you for this. If you don't mind me asking, how many times does he nap during the day? Can he nap too many times such that is night sleep is disrupted? Mostly, I want to know if others, such as your husband, experience this sudden, nearly overwhelming tiredness that scares me.

[gettingsomewhere in reply to linuxusr]

Hi again. He often comes over sleepy in the afternoon 3 ish and if the opportunity arises he will have a kip. Its usually only at this time of day. He deliberately has only a light lunch of fruit because he says it interferes with activity/ energy levels. He isn't on medication for anything and is physically & mentally in good shape.

He starts yawning, gets comfy then nods off but if he needs to stay awake then he'll revive himself quickly. He's not like you describe.

If he naps he'll go to bed later, but usually our bedtime is around 11.30pm.

I like to keep to a sleep routine, I'm the one who has insomnia at times, but I set the alarm if home for 7.30am regardless of what sort of night I've had. I can manage with little sleep and try not to get uptight about it as I've learnt it doesn't help.

Today he got up at 8.30 and is now gardening and doing other jobs. I can't really guess if he'll need a nap later on.

This has been normal for him for some years now since he retired..

I hope this helps a little.

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

Yes, it does help, and I appreciate your willingness to share. You are correct: Maintaining a normal sleep routine is critical.

[gettingsomewhere in reply to linuxusr]

How do you sleep at night? Do you feel refreshed when you wake up in the morning? I know sleep apnea can interfere with the quality of one's sleep which may lead to feeling tired during the day. Just a thought.

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

I don't have sleep apnea. I always feel refreshed when I wake up. If I don't, I sleep some more. That is why it is so surprising to me that I have sudden sleepiness when I've rested well at night.

[Alpakka123 in reply to linuxusr]

Gettingsomewhere suggested what I was going to.I'm not a senior, but I am unfortunately a walking sleep disorder.

My next question after sleep apnea would be do you wake up feeling refreshed. You answered that you do, which I'm very glad to hear.

The only other thing I can think of for your situation is narcolepsy, but since you can fight these attacks of wanting to sleep, I am at a loss of what to suggest here. Have you spoken with a ENT or a sleep specialist? If not, it might be an idea to do so .

[linuxusr in reply to Alpakka123]

Thank you. What is narcolepsy and is that within the province of the ENT? Here in the Dominican Republic, sleep specialists do not exist. However, my psychiatrist has ordered labs--and many members have have helpfully suggested critical labs--so I'm now awaiting those results. Thanks again.

[Alpakka123 in reply to linuxusr]

You're welcome! I'm glad you're awaiting lab results. Here's a webpage I found that talks about ENTs and sleep specialists:

neurolaunch.com/ent-and-sle...

And here's one about narcolepsy:

mayoclinic.org/diseases-con...

[gettingsomewhere in reply to linuxusr]

Can you come round ie wake yourself up once you feel this overwhelming tiredness or do you have to nap? Does this make any difference I wonder?

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

This is what I try and do: It is critical to maintain a normal sleep schedule, so I go to bed and wake up at the same time every day. I don't permit myself to nap more than twice per day and only for 30 minutes. If I have taken my two naps and it is not yet my bedtime and I am suddenly sleepy, I force myself to stay awake. If I don't do that, I will go to bed earlier and earlier and earlier. Last night, for example, when I was suddenly sleepy and forced myself to stay awake, the tiredness passed . . .

[gettingsomewhere in reply to linuxusr]

Hmmm I can see why you're mystified as this is a recent change for you.I'd be interested in knowing what you find out if you're happy to share of course.

My sleep pattern is a bit of a curiosity to me as well but I live with my episodes of insomnia and just get on with it. I don't nap during the day no matter how tired I often feel.

Best of luck!

[linuxusr in reply to gettingsomewhere]

Thanks. Yeah, it's mostly a mystery. But since I wake up refreshed, I conclude that the problem is being tired and not some underlying medical problem; nevertheless, my psychiatrist has ordered tests.

[Franklin68 in reply to linuxusr]

What you describe is not something I’ve heard about to much. That has to be scary, it just coming over you all of a sudden.

it sounds like you’re starting in the right place with your GP and to possibly eliminate anything there.

Have you been able to find anything about your condition through research?

[linuxusr in reply to Franklin68]

Not yet. It seems that it's plain old tiredness given that I am completely refreshed after I nap. The difference is the suddeness with which it comes . . .

[Franklin68]

curious if what your experiencing shows up on your search.

[Pearl67]

Sounds like me when my thyroid numbers are off. Some other thyroid friends and I call it, “pregnant-tired,” because it feels like that type of exhaustion!

I would look at D3, B12, thyroid and iron for bloodwork, then, pay attention to what you eat or drink prior to these episodes. Perhaps your blood shifts more after certain meals, snacks or beverages?

Good luck and keep us posted😉

[linuxusr in reply to Pearl67]

Thank you, Pearl67. You could very well be right. I think that "the jury will have to be out" until I get these lab results. And thanks for suggesting that I post back.

[tiggra]

I dont think you will know what to do until your bloodwork comes back; but if they don't find any bad results on your bloodwork, then you can get more of an idea if this is a psychological thing or a thing you can't necessarily stop. You might have to do a stimulating activity of somekind to ward this off. I think it's great that you are able to have a regular sleep schedule. I used to get those tired feelings you describe at around 3 p.m. everyday when I was still working, whether I had plenty of sleep or not. I would change my routine and do a task that would allow me to get up and move around. I do now that I'm retired have some episodes like that. If I'm too tired I set an alarm and take a 1 or 2 hr nap, as I don't do regular napping. You sound like a wise man, so I believe you will find a way to handle this situation. Take care and post on this site how you're doing.

[linuxusr in reply to tiggra]

tiggra, thank you so much. Yes, I agree, I need these lab results to confirm that there is not some underlying physical problem. It could very well be that this experience of sudden tiredness is just a new way that I respond to tiredness that is a function of aging. After all, I the fact that I always wake up refreshed suggests that I am "suffering" from plain old tiredness that is expressing itself in a new way. But, as you say, until I get those lab results, "the jury is out." It's not surprising that you become sleepy in the afternoon regardless of whether you slept well. We all, including mammals and many other organisms, experience a circadian dip in the afternoon and another one mid-morning. I even notice that in the afternoon, when I experience my sleepiness, that it's ditto for my cats and birds. This is why many Latin American countries maintain siestas in the afternoon.