Sorry I've been so 'vocal' here the past few days, but I'm just now finally thinking I might be onto something here thanks to everyone's suggestions. And with that, comes more questions!
When Dr Weekes et al, say to just accept the anxious thoughts and don't try to fight them, but just get on with your daily activities and let the thoughts just 'sit there', how can you tell if that's what you're doing vs just busying yourself as a means to avoid? What would an example of avoiding look like vs just getting busy and letting the thoughts be there? Today, for example, I didn't feel like it, but did some kitchen prep work for a meal that needed done, and the nagging feelings were there. I tried to say to my thoughts/feelings, either a version of 'sit down and have coffee while I work' or the other example from Beevee, 'kiss my ass, I have things to do'! But both seem to be on the far end from each other. One is more 'accepting' and the other seems to be 'get out of here' the more I thought about it, which didn't seem to fall along the lines of 'accepting'. So are both of these examples ok to say to yourself when you're trying to just let the thoughts float and not consume? Thanks as always!
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fromzerotopanic
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I'm doing the DARE app which basically uses the same theory.
I've seen the results. I do my best to let the feelings come and remind myself to not resist or fight them cause yeah it's been my experience that if I try to resist the longer it stays and the most anxious I get to the point I panic. If I just approached it differently, realize that these are thoughts and feelings, that won't hurt me. I can trust in my body, I will be okay.
Yeah in my Dare app they have a mental meditation to start the day and it also takes on an more an aggressive approach. In one meditation it says to imagine yourself and a prison and to look at yourself in a mirror. And to tell yourself you are no longer going to live in this prison. That you have had enough and you are leaving you're leaving all this behind. And there was another meditation that says to visualize you taking anxiety in as whatever imagination you want to put on your anxiety like make it a cartoon character or something basically silly that doesn't frighten you. But in the meditation you envision yourself inviting your anxiety in being the the best host you can be and telling anxiety I'm glad you came thanks for stopping by but I'm going to be going and doing me. You can stay here chill out but I have a life to live. So I say both perspectives are needed. Some days yeah you need to be a little compassionate and kindness to your anxiety. Anxiety is not inherently evil. It's a necessary thing. I mean we do need the flight or fight response. And other times yeah you need the motivation you need the kick in the butt so that's where the aggressive to tell anxiety where it can stick it. And I found that those work for me. The theory works for me
Thanks for the info on the dare app! I just downloaded it myself today and have really benefited from the videos I’ve watched so far! I mentioned those who followed Clair Weekes et al since I’ve seen more comment on filling her than Dare, but Dare seems to follow her philosophy and I just seemed to connect to Dare, so am looking close there. I’m glad to get your good review on their App! And thanks for your guidance on how to handle “allowing “ the thoughts to be there. I did
My beliefs... from my specialized therapist is that each emotion is there for a reason. We need to get to the core of what it is telling us. Keeping busy is not the answer if you can't look at your anxiety and see what it's purpose is.
I listened to a great meditation about anxiety the other night. It talked about just what anxiety had done for me in my life. It's a predatory alarm for something that might be coming up. Yes the " might be" is based on past experience. I only know this because I look into my body for the answers to why I react the way I do, What I've learned is it's not a "head controlled thing" it's a dig inside to find the root.
I mentioned the "You can kiss my ass" attitude towards anxiety which is fine (or leaving that prison) when in a bullish mood but that wont always be the case. There will be times when mood will be low and you may not feel like doing anything. These are the times when acceptance really comes into play. For example, you can't face going to work because you are feeling so anxious...but you still go, resigning yourself to the fact that you might be in for a rough ride.
In reference to avoiding or busying yourself, the following example might help. When my anxiety developed, I had no idea what was happening to me and floundered for some time. A friend lent me a Dr Claire Weekes book which I read. Even then, I didnt understand how the contents of this book could relate to my situation so struggled on a bit more. Parts of the book spiked my anxiety even more! It took time for the message to sink in and for me to understand that the contents were very much relatable! It then took a bit more time to understand the 4 principles of recovery; facing, accepting, flisting past and letting time pass. Any how, I digress slightly but want to explain that recovery is a process, a process whereby the sufferer is given a fishing rod to catch a fish but then must learn how to catch the fish themselves! They learn through trial and error. It's the same with recovery from anxiety. You will spend time questioning the meaning of acceptance, like you are now and especially if you are feeling very anxious! I went through that stage too and completely normal. Accept that you might not understand acceptance to begin with!
Back to my example. I took up cycling and swimming. Not necessarily to get fit but because i didnt feel anxious after each session. I felt relaxed with no anxious thoughts or feelings so did more miles because of how it made me feel afterwards. It was only when I started learning about anxiety that I was using this exercise to make me think and feel differently. I was trying to avoid, suppress or deliberately divert my attention away from the thoughts and feelings generated by my anxiety. As Dr Weekes'message started to click with me, I realised that my attitude was all wrong as far as my recovery from anxiety went. I carried on doing exercise but did it in the knowledge that it wouldn't bring about permanent cure and that cure lay in allowing myself to feel my anxiety and let it be there for as long as it liked and not do anything to try and change how I was feeling. That is acceptance. Being ok about not feeling ok and carrying on, regardless.
There was, however, a lovely bonus for me in that I had never been physically fitter! Nowadays, I dont do so much strenuous exercise as I prefer to spend time walking my cockerpoo dog! Hes not very good at cycling.
Excellent examples, Beevee, thank you! it's going to be a tough road, but I see it's going to take much time to learn 'how to fish'! And I can see there will be many curve balls along the way. Im sure I'll be posting many times in the upcoming weeks, but everyone has been so helpful!
Hi Zero, I don't think it matters in regards to how you go about accepting the anxious thoughts and feelings, it's whatever works for you to start getting it. But as you are beginning to realize, the more you struggle and fight with anxiety, the more it persists. If that approach worked, you wouldn't have anxiety and this website probably wouldn't exist. Beevee's comment about "anxiety kissing my ass" is about no longer caring whether the anxious thoughts or feelings are present and instead getting on with life. When we are stuck in the anxious cycle, we think it will last forever but that's not true and the less you struggle and feed it with anxious thoughts, the quicker it will pass. The reality is that anxiety is a part of you and all of us and trying to reject it is rejecting a part of yourself.
Hadn't looked at that way, that I'm rejecting a part of me! And I have to remember that I've had these flare ups before and though I don't know what happen for them to calm down, they eventually did. So I have to remember the don't last forever, even though they feel that way when in the midst of one!
I understand, when i'm stuck in the anxiety cycle it's easy to feel like it will last forever and forget what's really going on. That's why I like the DARE program and phone app, it's a good easy reference to enable me to get back on track.
I also want to add that recovery is not a linear process and not the same for everybody. Keep asking your good questions and gaining new insights and it will eventually click and start making sense for you.
It's finding that line between pushing the thoughts away (one extreme - avoiding) and engaging with them and following them down the rabbit hole (fighting, trying to work it out). You want to do neither. You want to welcome them but not engage with them.
I would never say "get out of here" that is fighting them, pushing them away. I would prefer "sit down, have a cup of coffee, I'm not going to pay attention to you."
I used various expressions. I would say "Bring it on!" "Give me your worst!" and "Is that all you've got?", but follow it with "I'm not going to give you any attention." So it is inviting them (not avoiding, and showing the thoughts you are not afraid of them) and not engaging with them (not fighting). That is the key.
Hello Carl, thanks for this enlightening post, with concrete examples. It is very tricky at the beginning: am I really accepting of having an ulterior motive of extinguishing anxiety? Did I fall into the anxiety trap again? This morning, my acceptance exercise made my anxiety worse. Is it because I finally let it be as it wants? In mindfulness, we try to observe dispassionately even "large" feelings. I guess I missed the "I'm not going to give you any attention" part. Next time, I'll add that Thanks again and be well!
Yes. it's quite common for anxiety to FEEL worse when we face and accept it. At least in the beginning it often does. I don't think it is actually worse, I think it just feels worse because we are allowing it to be there, and allowing ourselves to feel it properly, maybe for the first time.
We can also deceive ourselves into thinking we are accepting the presence of the anxiety, when really we are hoping it just goes away. That's OK. Just keep practicing acceptance, and you will get to the point where you truly do accept it. Believe it or not, you'll get to the point where you welcome it as an opportunity to practice acceptance. There are many, many levels to acceptance. It isn't a case of "one and done". That's why recovery is a journey, not an instant fix.
Note, that there is a difference between how we treat thoughts and feelings (though sometimes they seem to overlap). Ignore the anxious thoughts, but feel the anxious feelings (and every other type of feeling).
I often observe that what I want with acceptance is to do is to do away with anxiety. I don't quite know how to get out of this yet, but I think I do manage sometimes to really accept, period. I'll keep practicing for sure.
It's nice to hear that acceptance is not a case of one and done and has many levels. I've read somewhere that you can't accept at 75%, it has to be 100% or it is not acceptance. This just seems unattainable in the beginning. And I do believe you when you say I'll welcome anxiety as an opportunity to practice. That has already happened once or twice with lowish anxiety.
Focusing on feelings (however bad) instead of thoughts is something I have used a lot dealing with depression. It makes a world of difference!
Thanks again for your generous input. It makes a real difference for me.
Definitely understand the point about “ am I really accepting or is my mind finding a sneaky way to get rid of it! I always doubt/ second guess (thanks OCD!) so the process gets tricky!
Oh, you are saying it so well "is my mind finding a sneaky way to get rid of it". Just now, I would need to do some acceptance (anxiety flare up) but I suspect I will be sneaky for a little while, lol. Thank you fromzerotopanic
I would also tell my thoughts "you're a pathetic joke" and then pay no more attention to them. This calls anxiety's bluff, and gives your mind the message that you are not going to take anxious thoughts seriously any more.
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