ADT + Creatine?

[KMY28]

I'm on Orgovyx and Nubeqa, and we all know these ADT drugs reduce muscle mass and lead to muscle loss. Besides frequent resistance training, has anyone supplemented with creatine powder? Any benefit or side effects or counter-reactions?

[mrscruffy]

I use Creatine, BCCA's and Ostarine with a high protein diet and a workout program of heavy lifting. Stopped muscle loss and built muscle

[cnjaz in reply to mrscruffy]

Hi

I am lifting myself 5 days a week and taking about 120 mg - 150 mg of protein a day. How much Protein are you taking per day. Also how much Creatine too?

[mrscruffy in reply to cnjaz]

Protein intake is the same. I take 1 scoop daily

[cnjaz in reply to mrscruffy]

Thank you I will add creatine myself too!

[Radars in reply to cnjaz]

I have locally advanced prostate cancer, after treatment in 2016 my testosterone has never recovered and now I have osteoporosis osteosarcopenia, creatine might be a bit dodgy.

[London441]

Supplements can make a small difference but they only work as hard as you do. Concentrate on the quality and intensity of your lifts primarily, it’s vastly more important than what you add to it.

[KMY28 in reply to London441]

Definitely! Looking to supplement, not replace, all the hard work.

[London441 in reply to KMY28]

There’s always exogenous testosterone…kidding😀

[Dont08759]

so two years ago after a year on Lupron, my MO grabbed my pot belly and told me “Your not going to die from prostate cancer, your going to die from a heart attack!” I had noticed my weight never changed as my muscle mass slowly became my pot belly! I learned how to play pickleball and try to play 2 hours a day in hopes of preventing future muscle mass loss. I had not considered a protein supplement…

[jdm3]

Creatine is great and a lot of people I know, including my wife, take it. I decided not to take it because creatine will increase insulin growth factor - 1 (IGF-1), which has been linked (correlation or causation?) to the proliferation of prostate cancer. So, be careful.

My approach with supplements is "first do no harm." As good as creatine might be, there is a possibilty that it could be bad for people with PCa. Or, maybe not. I agree with London441 that you should focus on the quality and intensity of your workouts. Get a trainer, lift heavy, do high intensity intervals once a week, etc....

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[KMY28 in reply to jdm3]

yes that's my concern/curiosity. I've cut dairy to reduce IGF-1 so don't want to re-introduce it with anything.

[jdm3 in reply to KMY28]

Yeah. I cut dairy too. Mainly to reduce inflammation, but IGF-1 too. I refer to myself as a whole-foods-plant-based-diet guy who eats the occasional BBQ ribs and ice cream. Gotta live a little 🙂. But dairy is inflammatory and inflammation leads to disease, so very limited meat and dairy consumption is a good idea. Ditto for sugar, but gotta have the pie with the ice cream .

[dhccpa]

I supplement off and on with 5-10 per day. If I use none, my creatinine drops below normal. I take until the level gets back to normal range.

[Seasid in reply to dhccpa]

Hobierat24 hours ago

dhccpa, creatinine is a waste product that is filtered out of the body, while the creatine is used as a source of energy for the muscles. I'm not aware of a general blood test for creatine

For you.

[dhccpa in reply to Seasid]

Yes, but consuming creatine seems to raise my creatinine levels.

[Seasid in reply to dhccpa]

That is true.

[Mrtewills]

I regularly take creatine, along with Now Pea protein and PB fit. I lift 5 days a week doing a lot of Myo Reps, with only 1 heavy day per week as well. I walked 10-13k steps/day broken up through the day. The only thing I will say it is, with all good come bad.. while creatine works, you can't really avoid gaining a little extra weight. Just stay at it.

[KMY28 in reply to Mrtewills]

Agree. High intensity yoga 3 days a week plus resistance training of some sort every day, and aiing for 10k+ steps every day. Just wondering if Creatine has more of a + or - effect.

[Hobierat]

dhccpa, creatinine is a waste product that is filtered out of the body, while the creatine is used as a source of energy for the muscles. I'm not aware of a general blood test for creatine

[Hobierat]

As we get older our body doesn't produce or convert naturally- occurring creatine ( three amino acids) found in meat and fish as efficiently as when we were young hence the supplementing. After hearing this two years ago I added creatine to my workouts. We octogenarians need all the help we can get. Last month I added HMB which is another amino acid which is supposed to prevent muscle breakdown while supporting recovery. The good thing is these two supplements now come together as a powder and includes D3.

[Mgtd]

As a young person I understand your desire to maintain muscle mass and strength for various reasons. I also recognize that at your age you may not have the time flexibility to do as much training to overcome some of the ADT side effects.

Besides the muscle loss the other major aspects of your therapy is weight gain and cardiovascular damage. What are you doing to control that. Changed diet, reduced calorie intake, etc ???

You also did not mention what aerobic exercise you do. How often, what intensity, etc.

Resistance training with and without supplements is only one part of a balanced program.

[KMY28 in reply to Mgtd]

Super heart healthy diet (vegetarian with chicken and fish proteins, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol). Also consulting with my cardiologist. Daily exercise and training.

[Mgtd in reply to KMY28]

Not much else you can do! Keep up the great work! With all that the creatinine will probably have little impact and save you a couple of bucks.

[No_stone_unturned]

I’m currently on the same treatment as you and take both creatine and protein daily. I find it makes a difference along with diet and exercise. There’s no substitution for testosterone, but I find this does seem to help.

Results

[KMY28 in reply to No_stone_unturned]

Great! Just wondering if anyone has had a negative effect from creatine or know if there is one. Of course I will consult with my docs but curious about real world experience.

[No_stone_unturned in reply to KMY28]

I do not have any negative effects from it.

[j-o-h-n]

Besides the comments/posts here, if you do a search for creatine in our H.U. history you will find tons of post for and against creatine usage. At 52 and before my RPD the only muscle I was concerned with was the love one. Of course we all want to look like an Adonis but we also want to make it to at least 90 years old.

I only take meds and do not take supplements and believe that you shouldn't mess with mother nature. With my lowly advice the only thing I can add is that "it's your call regarding the use of supplements" So it's Heads or Tails?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[GardenReno]

Hi, based on posts in another group I started using creatine several weeks ago. I have advanced stage 4 prostate cancer and have been on ADT 3 years. No side effects for me and seems to be helping with improving muscle mass. I do 10 minutes of weights most mornings and arm muscles and pecs definitely more solid. Cheers Ian

[KMY28]

Thanks Ian.

[Mrtewills]

My PSA has stayed at .01 regardless of creatine or protein. As for benefits, I believe it's a personal choice. Just too many yays/nays in support of its use. Same with protein powder. But with zero testosterone, I cannot eat the same to maintain muscle as I did before. So, I have chose to take the 5mg per day. I do notice a fuller muscle. But that is what creatine done.

[AmericanPharoah]

Think about using a buffered version. Kre Alkalyn.

[KMY28 in reply to AmericanPharoah]

Say more pls.

[AmericanPharoah]

From what I understand, buffered Creatine doesn’t increase creatanine levels.

[AlmostnoHope]

Lift,lift, and keep lifting.

[LongTimeRunning]

There is a clinical trial that is examining creatine supplementation along with resistance training in men who are being treated for prostate cancer. I think it is out of Utah. I'm assuming they don't think creatine affects prostate cancer.

Note that creatine is one of the most studied supplements and is being increasingly recommended to elderly people as it seems to prevent cognitive decline.

[OldGolden]

Here is what my experience has been. I’m 71 and heavy weight lifting 6 days a week. I’m on Erleada and Orgovyx for what will be 6 months in 3 weeks. My PSA is less than .02 and my total testosterone is less than 10. When I started ADT I was using creatine daily with my protein shake and still do. I’ve still been able to make modest gains. I will also add that I’ve seen studies that show that creatine can help reduce muscle loss. I’m surprised but ….