Muscle building on ADT?

[Geo99]

I just started radiation along with orgovyx and zitiga. Anyone know if you can build muscle while on these meds? I don't know if building muscle is even possible with no testosterone?

[mrscruffy]

I have been super successful using a SARM called Ostarine. It further suppresses Testosterone and builds muscle. Do some research on it, big in the body building community

[Geo99 in reply to mrscruffy]

Thanks, interesting.

[chickgreen in reply to mrscruffy]

That is interesting - what, if any, effects does it have on PCa cells?

[mrscruffy in reply to chickgreen]

No effect on Pca cells that I have ever read. What it does do is suppress T. My PSA was beginning to rise started SARMS and went right back down. Gave me another year of low PSA

[chickgreen in reply to mrscruffy]

I take it then that you are not on Lupron or one of the other medications?

[mrscruffy in reply to chickgreen]

I am on Lupron and Zytiga, will be switching soon to Lynparza. Ostarine is not in any way a cure but more of an assistant to my current meds. That is just a bonus as my goal is to build muscle and stamina. I am currently off cycle, I have lost about 10 lbs on my lifts and stamina is affected. It fires right back up when I go back on cycle

[chickgreen in reply to mrscruffy]

A cycle is 12 weeks in, 4 off? Do you have a brand you really like?

[mrscruffy in reply to chickgreen]

I do 6 on and 4 off, HDL tends to drop at 6 weeks so I cut it there, 4 weeks and back to normal. Tested blood monthly per advice of trainer. Everyone is different. There re a few poor products out there. Asked my trainer and she recommended SARMS Global and that is who I use. Sourced from Canada, purchasing is weird. You buy from one company, pay another company and delivered by a third company

[Skippy3]

I'm on Eligard (leuprolide acetate) same as Lupron every 6 months and 1000 mg Zytiga (aberaterone acetate) plus 5mg prednisone 5mg every day. My psa is 0.04 and my testosterone is less than 10, probably zero. It's been over 2 years since my diagnosis. I recently got a DEXA scan that showed some weak bones. My hip indicated it was at the osteopenia level. I quick like a bunny got on a weight lifting program. Soon after I went on a preplanned and paid for snow ski trip and was scared to death. No broken bones but it was exhausting. I went to the gym yesterday and rowed for 1/2 hour then started lifting. I have been increasing my weights little by little. I am imagining my muscles getting bigger. That makes me feel better. In any case, you don't really have a choice. You should do it to strengthen bone mass or at least, keep it where it is. I also try to bike 10 miles (16 km) 3 times a week to ward off heart and circulation problems. The last couple weeks I've been bad but the many house chores should count for something. I turn 68 Wednesday this week.🙂

[Geo99 in reply to Skippy3]

Thanks.

[mrscruffy in reply to Skippy3]

I did body measurements and took body pictures before I started my program at the request of my trainer I have made substantial gain and look and feel great, my wife likes my more youthful body and my attitude after the gym

[Skippy3 in reply to mrscruffy]

Excellent. That shows that building muscle is possible. I feel better and I’ve been lifting more. I just have to keep doing it. No youthful comments from my wife yet. My daughter is on me to consume more protein. How many days a week do you work out?

[mrscruffy in reply to Skippy3]

I lift heavy 5 days a week working in rest days when I become sore. I also take Creatine and BCCA'S. I consume lots of protein and calories as they go hand and hand, I then cut calories after 10lbs of weight gain. Kind of tricky at first but it works. Consistency is key. I am on vacation but resort has nice gym so I still workout. Good luck to you

[Derf4223]

I use about 20 mg creatine before resistance exercises. That is a higher daily dose than the package shows. My MO has no problem with it. Information on creatine with PCA is varied -- but I think gaining a bit of muscle is worth the risks vs sarcopenia. Either way, maintaining muscle is a very uphill matter in and of itself while on ADT/Abi/etc. Resistance exercise done right is said to release a chemical that slows down PCa recurrence. Like a whole lot of other aspects of living with PCa, our choices are never tradeoff-free.

[Geo99 in reply to Derf4223]

Thanks

[Gym-rat]

I gained about 6% increase in muscle mass and 26% decrease in body fat (DEXA scan results) during my first 6 months on ADT. This involved serious changes to daily diet and exercise.

If you want to read details go to this posting by AllenMarco made a few days ago and read my replies:

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

[Purple-Bike]

I maintained or slightly increased muscle mass during 10 months of ADT with all-out weight training three times per week. I go until failure, pant like mad, and beat the muscle-wasting of ADT. Plus rigorous diet.

[mrscruffy in reply to Purple-Bike]

I saw similar results at 3 days of lifting heavy, trainer had me go to 5 days a week and began to make huge gains

[Schwah]

weight training, weight training, weight training. My MO told me those that lift weights do great while on ADT and those that don’t…don’t. They turn to mush. When I heard that, I went to a gym with one of those little musclemen guys. I took my shirt off and said, “I am going to have zero testosterone, and I don’t wanna look worse than I do now a year from now”. He looked me over, and said “ if you look like that after a year, lifting weights in my gym, I’m closing the freaking doors”. Lmao. I do three days a week for over an hour of pure weight training. I hate it every time but I’ve actually been able to lose weight and gained a bit of muscle. I feel great! Do it!

Schwah

[London441]

Yes you can build muscle with very low testosterone. It’s much more challenging but worth every bit of the effort.

Not lifting while getting old is a mistake. Not lifting on ADT is just a much bigger one.

[Sherpa111]

I was diagnosed 5 years ago, and about 3 months after starting zytiga and my first Eligard injection, I started lifting. I use kettlebells and have had some great results. I train primarily 3 days a week and do a double kettlebell pressing program, kettlebell snatches for a cardio like exercise, pull-up’s, double kettlebell squats and some swings. I also walk an hour a day. Get moving! Muscle and strength will come, find your groove and go! Best to you!!

[Geo99 in reply to Sherpa111]

Thanks!

[Nusch]

I’m on Lupron only. Lost all muscles because I didn’t lift weight at the beginning. Then I started with dumbbells and today I don’t look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but my family is impressed by my muscle gain. So I assume, you can. But I practice 1 - 1/2 hours daily (different muscles) and jogg around 5-7 miles / day.

[larry_dammit]

been on adt now for 6 years , building muscles ? I’ve done about everything I can think of but I just can’t can’t seem to gain in muscle mass. Just stay active .

[mrscruffy in reply to larry_dammit]

Have you tried adding supplements? Hiring a knowledgeable trainer?

[rfgh20]

if you were already where you wanted to be in regards to muscle mass, you will have to work hard to maintain. unless you had never worked out, won't have an increase in muscle mass. i have tried to keep what I had and strength still down about 20%

[jedgar1]

I did Zytiga and Lupron for two years I lost 20 pounds in the first few months but I had read at this site when I very first started treatment how important it was to work out so I've been going to the gym for eight years and I go at least every other day but I have been able to maintain a decent physique even without testosterone, but it is hard work and you have to dedicate yourself to it. my muscles atrophied so fast that whenever I had to stop for a treatment or a surgery or something else that was wrong within five or six weeks I was right back to where I started. Truth is after a while. I became a gym rat. But you really have to be careful. Also, the lack of testosterone make muscles and tendons easier to tear and I have had three shoulder surgeries good luck.

[mrscruffy in reply to jedgar1]

It takes consistency and dedication for sure, I am on vacation in Costa Rica and am in the gym every day, keep up the good work

[VLBIV]

As a patient, it seems that what is important to me is not to worry about gaining muscle mass, but to get out there and do something, anything. Both weight training and cardio are important according to both my Oncologist and my Naturopath. In fact, my Naturopath feels strongly that exercise should be prescribed to all prostate cancer patients. I wish you the best.

[Geo99 in reply to VLBIV]

Thanks. I am very lean with very little body fat and mostly muscle starting the process so for me it's more about maintaining what I have and not losing it.

[Bhraen2]

When you have stage 4, Gleason 9 intraductal with Mets to bones and lymph nodes staying in shape is the only part of your life that you even have a chance to hold onto and hopefully a big factor in the best outcome possible. I was told by my urologist after my post RP auximin scan and genetic results (atm mutation) that I have the worst possible diagnosis. And also told by my MO if things don’t go right I could be gone in 2 years.

I’ve been on Lupron and zytiga/prednisone for 25 months and have had an undetectable psa and testosterone <3 since 3 months after starting. I have a physical job which I still do that is much harder because of fatigue and joint stiffness and have a difficult time remembering things sometimes but when I’m in the gym I feel my best and actually find myself overtraining at times because I feel 10 times better than at any other time, both physically and mentally. About an hour and half later I hit the adt wall again and feel tired, fatigued and achy.

[Captsquid2u in reply to Bhraen2]

I’m in the same boat as you just longer. Diagnosed around seven years now same Gleason, diagnosis. Told me at be dead four years ago at RWJ! Still here get a lot of aerobic going up and down 26 stairs ten or more times daily. Same meds but always forget prednisone. They never explained what that was for! Very strict diet, fast till dinner every day.. sometimes for three days! Physically weak. Was a bass player in bands for 52 years! Can’t even hold my Jazz bass now too heavy! Wrote a novel, got excellent reviews, even by published authors. Getting it published and retaining the rights is a bitch. Single, going to be sent four in July. Ok jus read your stats and meds thought I’d get back to you..live in Pt. Pleasant NJ. My novel, I named it SLOWING DOWN TOO FAST, JUST TAKING ONE LAST LOOK. Keep up the fight my friend!

[Captsquid2u in reply to Bhraen2]

oh! Going to be 74!

[Rickmartin1948]

Hi Geo, I am on ADT and had some accident last year that had me in bed for three months, my legs and core were destroyed and developed morbid fat all over my legs, backside ( none of my pants fit) Over a month ago almost two I started taking HMB and my legs are back and I lost a lot of the fat in the wrong places. My experience was very positive and today I went back into the tennis court and bounced around like years ago. My doctors told me there was no danger in taking both por PC and for heart condition. Just sharing because it made such a difference to me. Of course I am not giving advice but its something you can look into

[Geo99 in reply to Rickmartin1948]

Interesting..Thanks!

[KocoPr in reply to Rickmartin1948]

what is HMB?

[Radars in reply to KocoPr]

been reading all these posts regarding increasing muscle mass, I was dx in 2014 locally advanced p/c ,finished treatment rt/ht 2016 but my testosterone has never recovered, and now I have got severe osteoporosis, osteoporosis and severe osteoporosis is different you can lift heavier weights but with severe osteoporosis you can't, I am ok to go for a 30mn walk everyday and I can do pressups, I have lost a lot of strength with p/c and severe osteoporosis, I am only 8st, I have been reading about sarms some good some bad,it's a hard decision.

[Rickmartin1948]

sorry thought I had replied, hidroxy methyl but irate branches aminoacid from leucine. It helps moderate the muscle replacement metabolism, slows back destruction of muscle and improves rate of cell replacement. Like if you were younger

[Geo99 in reply to Rickmartin1948]

Thanks!

[j-o-h-n]

Bench Press my ex-wife.........very heavy dumbelle...........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/14/2023 7:28 PM DST

[Geo99 in reply to j-o-h-n]

Lol

[Mgtd]

Some great experiences.

I started doing resistance, diet change and walking three months prior to Lupron and radiation. I am just finishing up my 6 months of Lupron and it will be six months since radiation to prostate and pelvic area this coming January.

I have lost 1.5 “ off the waist and 12 pounds. I lift everyday for 30 minutes and walk 5.5 miles with my dogs. Over that time I have steadily been able to slowly increase the weights used and I am starting to show a 6 pack. So in my case I have reduced fat and increased muscle strength. So I would say it it possible to build strength and keep from losing muscle mass. Wife says I look like I did at 30 except for the lack of hair and face sagging.

Bad news is I had to buy new pants.