Creatine

[68stillgoing]

Has anyone used or seen a completed study on the use of creatine while on ADT

[Maxone73]

Positive results in recovery from workouts (as expected), there are studies about that. The only caveat (and the reason why I do not risk to take it) is that creatine may increase bone metastasis spread. But if you do not have bone metastasis it should be fine!

[68stillgoing in reply to Maxone73]

Thank you for your info Maxone73. I am waiting for a MRI regarding bone. If clear I will continue to look for a completed study to ensure there would not be a heightened risk

Again thank you

[Maxone73 in reply to 68stillgoing]

Just to be clear, we are always talking about risk, maybe I could take creatine and have no problem, so it's not a strange decision if someone with small bone mets and frequent scans decides to try the creatine way. Also some trials about SARMs will give soon results, also those would be beneficial to us as long as they do not promote metastasis.

[dhccpa in reply to Maxone73]

Haven't noticed that during my one 6-month go at it. Just started back after two years.

[CountryJoe in reply to Maxone73]

Are their estudies that indicaste that creatine can enhance bine metastisis? Ive been using it for almost a year with great resulta.

[Maxone73 in reply to CountryJoe]

Nothing clinical yet, but there was an ongoing clinical trial about it, need to check it out. I am just being very cautious here, maybe even too cautious.

[CountryJoe in reply to Maxone73]

Thanks for getting back on this.

[Maxone73]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... as you can see they excluded from the study people with metastasis

news-medical.net/news/20231... a new study on its way, aimed at metastatic PCa

[Purple-Bike in reply to Maxone73]

Do you know if there is anything else indicating creatinae could increase risk of spread of bone metastasis? The first study doesn't say why metastatic patients were excluded.

[Maxone73 in reply to Purple-Bike]

sciencedirect.com/science/a... as I said, to my knowledge there is only one clinical trial (still ongoing) but as you can see there is more than one that states that creatine can promote metastasis (also to bones) in vitro and in animal models

I am maybe being over cautious, considering that all the guys using it here on the site reported no problem at all!

[mrscruffy]

Have been using for a few years with the occasional bone mets now and then. I was getting them before use. Not scientific just my experience and approved by my MO. It should be noted that I am not one to micromanage everything about my cancer

[68stillgoing in reply to mrscruffy]

mrscruffy thanks for making contact. So by taking creatine for a couple of years and I would think at least annual checks you did not have anything progress or go up like your PSA?

Did your strength and bone density go down at all and are you aware of any other advantages. Do you take a good brand or a pharmaceutical grade?

Again than you

[mrscruffy in reply to 68stillgoing]

Had no rise in PSA, I combine it with Ostarine and PSA dropped (Ostarine is designed to do this) Finally after 7 years and 8 months ADT has failed an have moved on to new drug and PSA is super low. Bone density has slowly dropped and 6 months ago was determined to have Osteopenia. Doctor said my workout plan has been good in keeping Bone density acceptable. I take band recommended by my trainer. I have added bunches of muscle through workout and supplements which is rare

[London441]

Creatine is good, especially if you weight train. I don’t believe the stuff about it exacerbating metastasis, but my reasons would be considered spurious so I’ll leave it at that.

[Ingress]

if creatine wasn’t a potential issue, why do they check every time you do labs?

[pakb in reply to Ingress]

Creatine levels are normally checked in bloodwork for kidney issues. Not just in cancer patients.

[Tommyj2 in reply to pakb]

I think you might be thinking about creatinine.

[pakb in reply to Tommyj2]

Yes- thanks- thought that's what I typed! Don't think they check creatine levels in bloodwork?

[cigafred in reply to Tommyj2]

Yes, but if you take creatine it will show up as creatinine to such an extent that, if you are in the hospital or ER, it is hard work convincing them that they do not need to keep you there for major kidney problems.

[pakb]

My husband doesn't take creatine on a regular basis, but he has taken it over the years with workouts. Probably a few times a week mostly. He was de novo metastatic to bones. Diagnosed 6.5 years ago. He's seen no cancer related effects.

[dhccpa]

I've used it while on Lupron. Seemed to raise my creatinine and protein levels back to normal until I stopped, at which time it reversed. I just started back on it.

[tunybgur]

I am a little wary of using health supplements with my PCa.

I decided some time ago to adjust my diet to deprive PCa cells from their favourite foods.

As I understand it, PCa cells require Glucose and Glutamine to survive, take these away and they will hopefully slink away and die.

Glucose is not too difficult, this can be achieved with a ketogenic or very low-carb diet, however Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in our bodies and all cells will suffer if so deprived.

Glutamine can I understand be reduced by physical exercise as our muscles use it up at a fair rate. For this reason I stopped taking exercise supplements such as Whey protein as Glutamine is always one of the main amino acids included in them for obvious reasons.

My logic is simple, after a workout, my muscles will take longer to recover but hopefully so will those pesky cancer cells!

I'm not sure if Creatine contains amino acids, perhaps someone could enlighten me....

[Maxone73 in reply to tunybgur]

L-arginine, glycine, and L-methionine...these constitute creatine

[tunybgur in reply to Maxone73]

Thanks

[Maxone73 in reply to tunybgur]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

nature.com/articles/s41467-... it's not prostate cancer but...

as you can see there is a lot we do not understand still

[tunybgur in reply to Maxone73]

Yes, we know so much but understand so little.....it does show how adaptable all cells, not just cancer cells, are to changes in their environment.

I'm just hoping radiation (which I start next week) will kill off the little suckers once and for good!

[Maxone73 in reply to tunybgur]

I wish it will happen, exactly as you said!

[Maxone73 in reply to tunybgur]

Focusing some positive thoughts in your direction!!

[tunybgur in reply to Maxone73]

Much appreciated

[tunybgur in reply to Maxone73]

I think I'm a bit like you, knowledge is power, and the glass is always half full.

[Maxone73 in reply to tunybgur]

Except those days where I wake up and everything seems dark! But most of the time I stay positive

[Sagewiz in reply to tunybgur]

My MDs warned against ketogenic diet and are promoting Mediterranean Diet. I am considering Creatine but for now just taking chlorophyll, Modified Citrus Pectin and 5 mushroom defender capsules to minimize any possible minimal metastisis per readings on The MOss Reort and Prostatete Cancer Research Institute.

[tunybgur in reply to Sagewiz]

I'm not on a ketogenic diet, but I have totally eliminated simple sugars, potatoes, rice and pasta, but I have discovered life becomes very difficult without bread, so I just have low-carb breads of which there are quite a few.

Unfortunately I will have to change my diet quite a bit for the next 6 weeks while I am having radiotherapy. I need to eliminate/minimise gas from my bowel, so no more cruciferous veggies etc.

[glgr in reply to tunybgur]

You may try putting the cruciferous veggies in a microwave for a very short time or other form of minimal heating to decrease the flatulence production.

[tunybgur in reply to glgr]

Thanks for the advice, hadn't thought of that.

[glgr in reply to tunybgur]

Another simple form of heating is in an airfryer with a splash of olive oil at 250-300 degrees for 10 minutes. Makes the veggies easier to digest and a little tastier.

[tunybgur in reply to glgr]

I'll give it a try, thanks.

[j-o-h-n]

Geez, I thought you can find it in your wood burning fireplace...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[Mike1971]

As often, when googling a bit you find so much contradicting information. I would like to take creatine as well, but then I found this, which again makes me not sure:

”Our observation of …mice following creatine supplementation for only eight weeks highlights the need to assess creatine supplementation in patients with prostate cancer with caution. Consistent with our findings, dietary uptake, or GATM-mediated de novo synthesis of creatine, enhanced cancer metastasis and shortened mouse survival…”.

aacrjournals.org/cancerres/...

[wolverine11 in reply to Mike1971]

Can't find the source. Taking creatine increases DHT in some men. From a 2009 study men who have higher DHT levels tend to get more aggressive prostate cancers. I'm metastatic so no creatine for me. Have taken creatine off and on in the past.

[Maxone73 in reply to Mike1971]

And if you do not have metastasis it seems to work just greatly…PCa is a strange beast. But there is an ongoing clinical trial to answer these questions about creatine.