SYMPTOMS OF HYPO?

[FoxyTed]

Hi dear people,

I would really appreciate some reassurance

Can a low T3 cause fast heart rate/or palpitations, an unease in body like a driving sensation even though iv no energy, depression/moodswings, anxiety/low spikes and daily headaches that follow these spikes? zero motivation, cold feet, hair loss, brittle weak nails which have improved since iv began HCL acid, high cholesterol.

The latter ones I see a lot re hypo but some seem more like hyper which I am not. The unease in body settles in the late evening.

I have not been converting T4 to T3 and could not tolerate T3 so my Thyroid Doctor has put me on NDT almost 2 weeks 60mcg, seem to be tolerating so far🤞

My anxious brain when on overdrive questions everything.

My latest results DEC 24 on 50 levo

TSH 2.43

FT3 4.3 - 3.1-6.8

FT4 19

Anti bodies all ok and vits

Many thanks. ☺️

[waveylines]

You could try splitting the ndt dose. Take half first thing....rest at lunch time. See if that settles things. T3 has a short haf life which is why you probably feel better by the evening.

Did the Endo start you on 2 grains straight away? Wouldve been better to have had you start at 1 grain for a week then increase to 1 1/2 & a week or two later to 2grains. The body takes time to adjust.

This might have been the problem with the liothyronine. Having said that I couldn't tolerate liothyronine either but did fine on ndt.

[FoxyTed in reply to waveylines]

Hi Wavy, no I split the 60mcg (1grain) morning and afternoon. I am to increase by half a grain soon.

I have had these symptoms from way back on and off so it’s not starting the NDT. I just wondered can my symptoms be low T3?

After 3 days of T3 synthetic I could not tolerate it was dreadful!

Tk u

[FoxyTed in reply to waveylines]

that’s half grain twice daily

[waveylines in reply to FoxyTed]

Apologies......yes ure right 60mg=1grain. Silly me. Yes split in half. 1/2 grain twice per day.

Is this Armour Thyroid? The T3 content is 9mcg so can be a lot at first. Your body needs time to adjust..... I did this at first.

Also have you made sure your cofactors are optimal (B12, folate, vit D & ferritin).

[FoxyTed in reply to waveylines]

Yes vits optimal. Its Armour

Did you have any experience of my presenting symptoms? I’m so low and anxious.

Also how long did you leave it until you increased by half grain

[waveylines in reply to FoxyTed]

I had to increase slowly. There isn't any real set schedule.....the aim for you is one grain.

Once you achieve that and feel OK you can increase. Usually it's 6-8 weeks but you maybe able to go more quickly if you're taking under.

You might find moving from 1 to 1/2 too much....so 1 1/4 maybe better as an intermediate dose then move to 1 1/2..

What I did was to keep a little daily record. Included supplement taken as well as Armour temp and pulse first thing before rising, signs symptoms during day (include slump of energy times). etc.. just brief..

This helped me to look back over to see patterns. Quite useful

I only needed to split dose for a while.

Remember your body takes time to adjust.

What dose of levo were you on?

[FoxyTed in reply to waveylines]

Thank you, I was on 50 levo.

What do I look out for to decide I can increase?

[waveylines in reply to FoxyTed]

I think you stay within the max limits of what your endo has prescribed but you can ease your way into the new dose the endo says take if you need to... my Endo suggested initially increase a little every three weeks BUT because this was a much lower dose than the levo that I'd been on I ended up increasing a bit quicker with the lower doses but slowed right down waiting 6 weeks as he instructed me as I got further in. That's why I recommend keeping a daily diary.

[FoxyTed in reply to waveylines]

Yes I get that, the 1grain im on is a bit than the 50 T4 but I’m giving it a settling in period as was told and to go by way I feel. Hoping the old mojo returns soon😁 cheers👍

[waveylines in reply to FoxyTed]

Ahhhh in that case go slowly.

[FoxyTed in reply to waveylines]

Can I ask what dose you are on?

[waveylines in reply to FoxyTed]

I'm on 3 1/4 grains. Before the horrible Amiodarone I was on 3 3/4s. However Amiodarone screwed everything up and it taken me 15months. Amiodarone affected conversion and uptake of thyroid hormones at peripheral level as well as messing up the thyroid itself. I doubt my thyroid works so thyroid gland itself wasn't the problem but the peripheral effect was!!!!. I've heaed of others on levothyroxine taking a good 15months to get back to their usual dose.

How long ago since Amiodarone was stopped for you?

[BibiNana in reply to waveylines]

some great advice there 🙏👍

[greygoose in reply to waveylines]

T3 has a short haf life which is why you probably feel better by the evening.

Sorry, but how does that work?

[waveylines in reply to greygoose]

🤣😂 OK admit I haven't written that particularly well!!

[greygoose in reply to waveylines]

The half-life of T3 has nothing to do with how one feels because it refers to the amount of time T3 stays in the blood. And T3 is inactive in the blood, so doesn't make you feel anything.

[waveylines in reply to greygoose]

Greygoose I did not mention blood at all in my reply but you have .... I just dont want to get into a discussion over this. Ive already acknowledged I did not explain it well. Please can we leave it. Thanks. 🙂But please feel free to explain it better to the poster by addressing them. Thanks.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

what were your most recent vitamin results and ranges

[FoxyTed in reply to SlowDragon]

hi Slow Tk u

AUGUST 24

Folate - Serum

Vitamin B12 - Active

Vitamin D

Observation Date : 15-AUG-2024

PID : 2022012221 Laboratory : Inuvi Diagnostics

23.1 nmol/L (Range: > 7)

>150 pmol/L

Please note update to reference range 29 Jul 2024.

(Range: > 37.5)

98.7 nmol/L

Total 25(OH) vitamin D < 25 nmol/L is deficient.

Total 25(OH)D of 25-50 nmol/L may be inadequate in some

people.

Total 25(OH)D > 50 nmol/L is sufficient in most

individuals.

Total Vitamin D level >250 nmol/L - indicates potential

for toxicity.

Please note change of reference range 23 Oct 2022

(Range: 50 - 250)

Thyroid Hormones

TSH

Free T3

Free Thyroxine

1.140 mIU/L

3.9 pmol/L

20.4 pmol/L

(Range: 0.27 - 4.2) (Range: 3.1 - 6.8) (Range: 1

IRON 25.3 (10-30)

FERRITIN 115.00 (30-332)

TRANSFERRIN SAT 41.6% (25-45)

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to FoxyTed]

AUGUST 24

Folate - Serum 23.1 nmol/L (Range: > 7)

Vitamin B12 - Active >150 pmol/L

Vitamin D 98.7 nmol/L

IRON 25.3 (10-30)

FERRITIN 115.00 (30-332)

TRANSFERRIN SAT 41.6% (25-45)

So yes these all look good

[FoxyTed in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks slow, I have done work on my micro biome, stomach acid and I take a daily seeking health B complex methyl free as I can’t tolerate methyl - but these are for likes of me and still get to desired destination .

Is a multi vitamin not recommended even though it has 400 of folate? I bought some to switch for a while.

Can the racing heart at times still be down to hypo? Tk u!

[SlowDragon Administrator]

AUGUST 24

TSH 1.140 mIU/L

Free T4 (fT4) 20.4 pmol/L (12 - 22) 

Ft4 84.0% through range

Free T3 (fT3) 3.9 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 

Ft3 21.6% through range

Was test early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

What were you taking at this test

DEC 24 on 50 levo

TSH 2.43

Free T4 (fT4) 19 pmol/L (12 - 22) 

Ft4 70.0% through range

Free T3 (fT3) 4.3 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 

Ft3 32.4% through range

which brand of Levo

How long at this dose

Was test early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

[FoxyTed in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes 24 hrs since last dose of levo - it was Eltroxine mercury I was on 50mcg on both tests. I felt dreadful trying to increase.

Thyroid clinic doctor has switched me to Armour. Just been on it 11 days so early but I haven’t noticed any unbearable side effects.

I have just read Paul Robinson mention racing heart can be a hypo symptom until optimised.

Just wondered had anyone on here experienced similar.

Test at 9am

Thank u

[waveylines in reply to FoxyTed]

Yes you can get racing heart or palpitations when undertreated which settles in time as Paul describes. You have the co factors in place.

However 1 grain of Armour has 9mcg of T3 in it. You described palpitations since starting it and ones that settle by the evening. It maybe your body isn't used to the extra T3 that's being put in which is why I suggested you split it into two for the moment. So 4.5mcg of T3 in 1/2 tablet taken twice per day. My thought were that you'd also had a simular reaction to Liothyronine....hence the suggestion. Your body isn't used to it.

The only way to find our if this IS the case is to try it. 🙂🙂

[FoxyTed in reply to SlowDragon]

I did stop the b complex 1 week b4 testing

[FallingInReverse]

Can a low T3 cause fast heart rate/or palpitations/Can the racing heart at times still be down to hypo? Tk u!

For me it did. When I started 10 t3 the palpitations started and lasted 9 months solid and my t3 was low for most of that time. I still deal with them as I titrate and deal with my new perimenopause.

When I looked into it - a couple things.

When T3 is low, the body compensates for our sluggish engine… ie metabolism. I always say when the engine is sluggish your body switches to turbo boosters that are only meant for short term… but hypo means we use them more than they were intended. This is an increase sympathetic nervous system activity (home to your fight-or-flight response to stress or energy demands) and can lead to palpitations.

The longer term aspect of that reaction leads to the adrenals releasing adrenaline and cortisol which is triggered by the stress our bodies are under as we try to get our hormones balanced. Cortisol and adrenaline can lead to palpitations, a fast heart rate, anxiety, etc.

I think that uneasy feeling is your mind knows there’s nothing wrong, yet your physical body is acting like it’s in danger.

For me this interplay creates a very disruptive wired/tired feeling. Waking up in the early morning hours in a quiet empty house, feeling adrenaline rushing through my body completely unable to get back to sleep.

That’s my experience and what I learned when I asked the same question of myself!

[FoxyTed in reply to FallingInReverse]

Thanks for your kind reply and explanation. It must be very hard especially as you say wakening up in an empty house. Have you tried any meds to relieve this?

[FallingInReverse in reply to FoxyTed]

Optimizing my thyroid hormone replacement!!!!

An awareness of sleep hygiene. Deep breathing. Closing my eyes and resting even if my heart is still racing. Taking it easy on days I get too little sleep.

Magnesium. (Edit: I weaned of melatonin but during a period of high stress a few months ago I took it again for a couple weeks.)

And time and patience.

I admit there are moments I think - why not get a prescription for a sleeping pill. So many people do it, right! Just take a short cut!

But I am now 2 1/2 years post diagnosis after symptoms for about 8 years, the last of which was debilitating.

I was left on Levo 50 for a year : (

I was then dropped to 25 and 10 t3 was added. At that point I was convinced I was on the verge of a heart attack every moment bc of the palps. That’s the moment I found this forum.

That was about a year and a half ago.

Optimizing thyroid dosing, and key vitamins and minerals, (and now tackling new perimenopause) is my laser focus.

I also bought a Kardia last year to give some peace of mind that I didn’t actually have a heart problem and it really is all about being patient with my titrations.

Just my experience!

[FoxyTed in reply to FallingInReverse]

Yes think you’re right Finreverse, optimal is the answer, and this forum! I’m stick a while on the 60mcg, heart better yesterday and had a little energy, it takes my body a while to adjust like many others here, so slow and steady atm.

Awful you and others have been left years b4 treatment! I myself feel I always had a thyroid issue, I slept so much as a child and had big problems with female hormones. Us women don’t get it easy!

Have you ever looked into adaptogens for sleep etc? Is your cortisol high or low?

[ZeilaJee]

I’m on Armour. I had palpitations for ages before I managed to lift the dose to a better level. It’s still not ideal, probably, but I feel ok, not freezing at night and heart has settled, albeit faster than it used to be but regular. And in normal range. Armour in my experience has to be titrated up very very slowly. When your body settles, which can take weeks, another 1/4, even 1/8 pill. Split them by hand.

[FoxyTed in reply to ZeilaJee]

Hi and thank you,

I have racing heart, it’s awful today, I had it since Covid on and off. I’m so afraid it will get worse, hard to relax.

[Judithdalston in reply to FoxyTed]

Yes I’m a long term hypothyroid with nearly 5 years Long Covid…main symptoms being cardiovascular , though heart shown ok by ecgs/ echocardiogram …high BP/ HR.Been down the route that GP was convinced it was ‘overmedicated Levothyroxine’ ( on 100 T4/15 T3) but endo.who specialises in hypothyroidism and cardiovasc. looked at 22+ years of blood results and me talking about symptoms said ‘no’ despite TSH set around 0.02-.03. I had tried reduction of both T3 to 10, and T4 to 75, which hardly altered TSH and did absolutely nothing for high HR, just made my fibromyalgia much worse. So I would consider the high HR might have nothing to do with your thyroid treatment. Have you looked up HyperPOTS ( US term, Pots with adrenaline dumps), I had a tilt table test thinking I had Pots but told no, ‘postural hypotension’ …PM if you want more info.

[FoxyTed in reply to Judithdalston]

Hi thanks for replying,

Covid started all this for me. My thyroid numbers went way down. I think it’s now a mix of long covid and hypo☹️ my worst time of day is morning that’s when the heart races, my cortisol is highest at this time and I’m floored.

Sorry you have had to go through all that!

[IvyBoo]

I’ve had a rocky ride switching to NDT and have felt worse for three months but just starting to feel better. When I questioned this with Dr as I had not anticipated going backwards, she’s told me it will take 6/9 months. She told me that your body has been depleted of all the thyroid hormones it needs for so long, your body will react to it but it will settle down. I’m going to keep going because finally I am feeling better but the low mood, tiredness and achy muscles are still very much still in situ as are the crappy nails and dry skin but I have lost weight, my digestion is amazing in comparison. My eyebrows are back and the pins and needles are beginning to improve. I know everyone says build up very slowly but I got to 2.5 grains in 8 weeks. Just moved to 2.75. I’m still learning how my body works and how it is responding

[FoxyTed in reply to IvyBoo]

Hi ivy, thank you and I’m so glad you are feeling much better! The main thing for me at present is the adrenaline especially mornings. Did you have any of this?

[IvyBoo in reply to FoxyTed]

Not really an issue for me tbh. It’s amazing how different we are all. Who’d have thought this tiny gland could cause so much trouble. On starting NDT I had crippling back ache in bed at night and thought I needed to replace the mattress. A chap on here responded to my last post about it, which was really helpful and it improved when my dose increased. Also I have no thyroid at all after follicular cancer. I’m sure a crap thyroid v no thyroid probably has an impact too x good luck

[Teloch]

For one moment I thought you had b12 deficiency like I have going from the symptoms you described , I put up with all of them plus more on a daily basis, take care .

[FoxyTed in reply to Teloch]

High adrenaline mornings it’s awful today☹️

[Karen-Eleanor]

As suggested by others try splitting your dose? Where did you find an Endo that will prescribe Armout Thyroid? They are few and far between especially on NHS!