cholesterol levels for thyroid people

[Yellup1]

Hi Peeps

I was wondering if you could enlighten me a bit about cholesterol if you’re a ( treated ) hypothyroid person . I’ll give you a bit of background…

I had been on plant sterols ( natural statins ) for a couple of years with no adverse effects , until June this year when I started getting terrible random intermittent cramps and spasms in my body muscles . I put two and two together as I’d heard that some people on statins get muscular cramps so I stopped taking the plant sterols to see if the cramps would abate . My GP took my Creatine KC levels as I’d even gone privately to see a neurologist about the muscle cramps to see if it was nerve related , and they were very inflamed and way over the range on the Creatine CK blood test but are now in the normal range albeit at the high end( but this was only 2 weeks later) after cessation of the sterols . I’ve even done another test today to see if they’ve gone down more and will know in 2 or 3 days .

By the way I should add that pretty much all the other blood work I had in last few weeks was normal apart from 2 exceptions . One , ironically , probably down to me being over cautious not to take my thyroid meds not only not on the morning of the blood test as you advise here , but I’d lessened my dose for two days prior to that too as I’m so tired of ignorant GP’s and endos going pear shaped if my TSH if suppressed and my levels fairly high . Originally I was / am , a sub clinical marginally hypothyroid person for last 20 years or so and I’ve over the years been medicated ( on either thyroxine originally , then NDT , Armour , liothyrinine on the NHS when they prescribed it till 2018 , then I got it privately from the US when it stopped ) and for the most part I’ve had high ish T3 and slightly suppressed TSH and felt fine ( I’ve had 3 or 4 endos over the years my most recent one retired and I’ve now got another one through a recommendation from someone on here and he seems nice and not an idiot thankfully , I’m due to go and see him soon but my husband died suddenly last year of a cardiac arrest so didn’t see him last year for a maintenance check up although I felt fine , as I had so many huge things to deal with , along with the good advice I get here from you guys I tend to mostly manage it myself like many of you guys do ) ANYWAY , I digress , I’m now on Thyro Gold since last year through Dr Lowe’s wife Tammy and it seems to work pretty well for me touch wood , but because I lowered my dose for three days before my blood test AND fasted on the day ( according to your patient to patient advice about that making the TSH highest and T4 lowest so these doctors don’t all get neurotic if my TSH is too low or suppressed ) it had actually gone up to 5.4 so marginally hypothyroid ! And the T3 and T4 levels at the low end of the normal range when as we know the high end is better . So I won’t do that again . I’ll just miss THAT DAY’s dose instead . So I’ve done a test again today and even took all my thyroid meds right up to and including today as at least for my own piece of mind I want them back to normal , as this brings me to the next query :

My lipid profile was done and while my triglycerides were nice and low ( 0.9 ) and my HDL ( good ) cholesterol a bit higher than the ‘good’ level (2.11 ) my LDL was 5.6 , and the overall cholesterol reading was 8.1 !!! 😱 I’ve never had it that high so I keep wondering if like my husband and my dad who had a cardiac arrest and heart attack respectively , I’m going to keel over any minute ! After the sterols giving me the muscle cramps I’m wary of starting statins … as muscle cramps that are prolonged are a rhabdomyelosis risk .

I eat the most virtuous , saintly , slightly boringly healthy diet with oily fish , porridge ( yes gluten free - I’m 95% GF where possible ) no added sugar , berries , bananas , olive oil , skinless chicken , no red meat, occasional dark choc square, vegetables , the odd potato , very little bread if any , oat or coconut milk and am slim and fairly active so I’m wondering how this has happened ? I was taking Omega 3 supplements but have stopped as maybe TOO many good fats can also make cholesterol go up but wondered if it’s acute stress and anxiety which has made my cholesterol go up too and Lord knows I’ve had a lot of that in the last few years , being a youngish widow I’ve also lost the benefit of my late husband’s income and am not state pension age yet . But also , could the high cholesterol be due to the fact I was slightly HYPO thyroid the day I took the test rather than my more usual normal to even very slightly hyperthyroid after medication ?

And if my triglycerides are very low due to my saintly diet , will that reduce my chances slightly of keeling over like my husband last year , despite my overal cholesterol level being high ?

I thought slightly of taking a very small T3 tablet ( 5mg ) to add to my daily dose of two 300mg tablets of Thyro Gold ( equivalent to about 200 mg T4 and 50mg T3 according to Tammy which is what I was always on before ) to see if it reduces my cholesterol as historically if you’re slightly overactive thyroid or at the higher end of normal , your cholesterol is supposed to be lower isn’t it ?

Sorry this is so long but have any of you guys had very high cholesterol and is it due to thyroid , or stress or eating (even good) fats and the rest of it is a family history with me . And do the low tryglycerides reduce my chances of getting a heart attack ? And what did you all do ? And can you recommend any statin that DOESNT cause muscle cramp ? I’m now wondering if the muscle cramp is a symptom of high cholesterol ? It’s abated a lot since I came off the plant sterols but still there a little bit at times . Can plant sterols increase your overall cholesterol levels ? I’m very overwhelmed with it all 😞.

Many Thanks in advance . 🥺

[greygoose]

Many, many, many posts on here about cholesterol! If you do a search you're bound to find a few. Here's one I wrote myself not long ago:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

That should answer your question about 'keeling over'! The short answer is: no, you won't, because cholesterol doesn't cause heart attacks or strokes.

Here's another one:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Another short answer: cholesterol has nothing to do with your diet and a lot to do with your FT3 level. Cholesterol is made in the liver and the liver does its best to keep the level stable by balancing the amount you get in your diet with the amount it makes. However, if FT3 is low, the body cannot process cholesterol correctly and it tends to mount up in your blood.

So, don't worry about your cholesterol - and don't take statins! - worry about your FT3 level.

What you did before your last blood test was somewhat useless. Reducing your dose two days before your blood draw would not have had any effect on your TSH. What does affect it is the time of day - highest early morning - and eating/drinking caffeine before the blood draw. But, it will have given you a false low FT4. Similarly, taking it before the blood draw will give you a false high FT4 but have no effect on TSH. You need to leave a gap of 24 hours for levo (T4) and 8-12 hours for T3/NDT.

[Yellup1 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Grey Goose

Oh wow thanks for all of that ! Gosh ! So I need to raise my FT3 level ideally . Does T3 increase your FT3 level ? I had my meds at around 8 ish and did the bloods around midday or 12.30 as I had to wait for the nurse . So ideally the next time I do my thyroid testing I should just not have my meds on the day itself . So the last time I had my thyroid meds should’ve been the previous day ? With Thyro Gold , the T4 and T3 are both in the same tablet . It was Shaws on this forum that told me about it I think . I don’t know who else here is on it . Right but I’ve ordered this extra small dose of T3 ( cytomel / liothyrinine ) from a distributor I’ve often used before in the US .

I’ve got another question too btw … I do have early stage osteoporosis ( ostopeania ) in my spine a bit , what do you think when doctors say that high doses of thyroid meds can increase the chances of osteoporosis and do you agree with them and is it just a sad fact of life and we should take the osteoporosis meds too provided we can find one with few side effects ? What are your thoughts on that if you don’t mind my asking as I do value your opinion on here . You and the other admins .

Thanks in advance ! 😊

[greygoose in reply to Yellup1]

Yes, taking T3 will raise your FT3.

Having the blood draw at 12.30 will give you the lowest level of TSH. But, if you're self-treating that doesn't matter much. What is important is the FT3 level. You should leave a gap of 8 to 12 hours between your last dose of T3/Thyro Gold to get the level of your normally circulating FT3. If you take them too close to the blood draw, you will be testing the peak levels, which don't last very long.

what do you think when doctors say that high doses of thyroid meds can increase the chances of osteoporosis

I think they don't know very much about hormones, nutrition or the way the body ages. You need good levels of thyroid hormone to have good bones, along with optimal nutrient levels like vit D and magnesium.

But, depends what they mean by 'high doses'! I've never met a doctor that will prescribe high doses! They prefer to under-medicate you, so it's difficult to know how much they actually mean. For the dose to cause osteoporosis, it would have to be very, very high, long term. Doubtful if your dose of thyroid hormones could have caused your osteoporosis.

However, hypos are very often deficient in some nutrients, due to having low stomach acid so that digestion of food and absorption of nutrients is difficult. Get your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested to see if you're low in anything. Also zinc and copper, if you can. And, don't be fooled by doctors' insistance of supplementing calcium willy-nilly, as they tend to. Calcium supplements are neither a cure nor a treatment for osteoporosis. Magnesium is far more important, and most people are low in that. What's more, it's safer to take magnesium than calcium because it's water-soluble and excess is excreted. Calcium supplements, on the other hand, are badly absorbed and tend to build up in the arteries and soft-tissues. So, don't take them unless you are really deficient.

I'm afraid - or pleased, depending on how you look at it - that I have no experience of osteroporosis drugs, but I've heard a lot of bad things about them. I wouldn't take them myself. But, best to ask a new question about that, so that those that know can reply to you.

[greygoose in reply to greygoose]

Interesting article about osteopenia:

greenmedinfo.com/blog/osteo...

[Yellup1 in reply to greygoose]

Yes it is !!

[Yellup1 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks Grey Goose

You’re a mine of information , very interesting ! Well since I’ve had Osteopenia since about 2019 or 2020 I’ve been prescribed Acrette Vitamin D tablets which give me good vitamin D levels , but they have calcium in ! Is there a vitamin D supplement you can recommend that doesn’t have Calcium in ? My B12 levels were pretty good . I was taking a very high dose lately for a couple of weeks of 2400 mg but I think that was too high and it made me a bit light headed . What amount do you recommend for hypothyroid people ? I’m thinking my slightly lower thyroid readings could also be as Thyro Gold is a glandular rather than an NDT or even a normal thyroxine tablet and I’ve read just now that a few people found it slightly less potent than most standard NDT’s so maybe that’s why I appeared slightly sub clinically hypothyroid in my test a couple of weeks ago 🤔 I’ll see what today’s blood draw yields and I’ll go visit my endo soon anyway . I take 300mg of magnesium at night , my ferritin and folate is fine apparently …

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Yellup1]

my ferritin and folate is fine apparently …

Well worth taking another look at the results and see if their 'fine' is in the top half of the range like our optimal is 😏 most of us have been bottom of range 'fine' according to GP's!

[Yellup1 in reply to TiggerMe]

Both near the top thankfully, I’ve just checked my results ! But thanks for the heads up on that as I didn’t know that before ! 🙂😏

[Yellup1 in reply to TiggerMe]

actually my ferritin and iron was good but folate slightly at the low end … how does one increase their folate though ? 🤔

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Yellup1]

Eat leafy greens or buy some methylfolate (not folic) tablets

Or a good B complex is a good allrounder? How is your B12?

[Yellup1 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thanks so much . Also more B12 maybe ?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Yellup1]

Most of us opt for a good B complex... Thorne or a liposomal

Thorne has the right (better, doesn't need converting, as I think does Igennus) form of B6 so be aware when comparing 🤗 supplements are a bit of a minefield!

[Yellup1 in reply to TiggerMe]

Thanks so much Eeyore !

[greygoose in reply to Yellup1]

Is there a vitamin D supplement you can recommend that doesn’t have Calcium in ?

There are lots of vit D supplements that don't have calcium in. But, I don't have any particular recommendations to make. I don't take it very often.

But, if you're taking vit D, you also need to take vit K2-MK7. Taking vit D will increase your absorption of calcium from food, and the K2 makes sure it goes into the bones and teeth, and doesn't build up in the soft tissues and arteries.

My B12 levels were pretty good . I was taking a very high dose lately for a couple of weeks of 2400 mg but I think that was too high and it made me a bit light headed .

Not a particularly high dose of B12 - some people take 5000 - I doubt it would have caused side-effects. But, just taking B12 in isolation is not going to do you much good. The Bs all work together and need to be kept balanced, so taking a good B complex as a maintenance dose would be far better.

I’m thinking my slightly lower thyroid readings could also be as Thyro Gold is a glandular rather than an NDT

I probably shouldn't say this but the main difference between a 'glandular' and 'NDT' is that the glandular doesn't have - or is supposed not to have - any hormone in it. But, you know that TG does, so it's not a glandular, is it. You know how much hormone you're taking, and it's quite a high dose. So, it rather looks like an absorption problem. Do you always take your TG well away from food/supplements/other medication?

my ferritin and folate is fine apparently …

Who said so? If it was your doctor, double check. Doctors know absolutely zilch about nutrients. They just don't learn about them in med school. They're also pretty bad at interpreting blood test results.

Just been rereading your main post, and am intrigued by your diet:

I eat the most virtuous , saintly , slightly boringly healthy diet with oily fish , porridge ( yes gluten free - I’m 95% GF where possible ) no added sugar , berries , bananas , olive oil , skinless chicken , no red meat, occasional dark choc square, vegetables , the odd potato , very little bread if any , oat or coconut milk

Why no skin on the chicken? Why no red meat?

Sugar isn't the villain it's made out to be, either. Obviously you don't want too much. But a little here and there won't hurt. Might even help your conversion of T4 to T3.

Being 95% gluten-free is of no benefit. It has to be 100% If it doesn't bother you, then perhaps you don't need to be gluten-free - not everybody does. But, it is a good thing to try in case you are gluten-intolerant.

I was taking Omega 3 supplements but have stopped as maybe TOO many good fats can also make cholesterol go up

No, it can't. Fat has nothing to do with cholesterol. They are two entirely different substances and do not magically turn into each other when you eat them.

but wondered if it’s acute stress and anxiety which has made my cholesterol go up

No, that wouldn't do it, either. No connection.

[Yellup1 in reply to greygoose]

There are lots of vit D supplements that don't have calcium in. But, I don't have any particular recommendations to make. I don't take it very often.

But, if you're taking vit D, you also need to take vit K2-MK7. Taking vit D will increase your absorption of calcium from food, and the K2 makes sure it goes into the bones and teeth, and doesn't build up in the soft tissues and arteries.

Yes I take K2 - MK7

And yes I take a B complex already but I could probably take a better quality one .

And yes I take my Thyro Gold tablets on first waking to go to the loo then wait an hour and go back to sleep before re waking then having coffee and breakfast

This article from this forum called TG a glandular so I just assumed it was …

stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

The ferritin was good the folate at the low end .

Re the gluten free , I’m not gluten intolerant or anything but I know Slow Dragon on here often asks people if they’re GF so thought maybe I should eat more gluten free stuff … but I don’t actually have a problem with gluten as such .

The healthy diet I just do as it’s supposedly low GI and healthy . Porridge fills me up till lunchtime and I like it with berries , I prefer coconut milk to dairy in my coffee and on my porridge but I have skimmed milk in tea . I originally have been eating this healthy diet as it’s healthy and recommended by Dr Michael Mosley and keeps blood sugar low . I’ve stopped eating red meat partly for the planet to be honest , but I still very occasionally have it if someone else has cooked it in a nice stew or something . Im not keen on chicken skin on chicken .

Interesting that you don’t think anxiety or stress causes high cholesterol but I guess that’s good as it’s something to cross off the list .

Many Thanks for answering all my questions and putting my mind at rest about a lot of things . I’d love to be less anxious though but I’ve been through a lot lately and still going through a lot of stressful situations so maybe when that subsides then the anxiety will . Anxiety can cause people to occasionally feel a bit mlight headed too cant it ?

[greygoose in reply to Yellup1]

If you don't have a problem with gluten, then there's no point in avoiding it. That won't help you in any way. You might just as well enjoy that bacon sandwich!

Not sure that avoiding red meat is going to help the planet in any way. And it is a good source of iron. If you don't like chicken skin, fair enough, but that doesn't make the diet 'healthy'. 'Healthy' is very objective, anyway. And, just because a doctor recommends it doesn't mean it is!

I've had an awful lot of stress in my life - still have - but my cholesterol is always naturally low. If stress raised the level I would embrace the stress with both hands! But, I really don't see how it could possibly do that.

I don't know if anxiety can make people light-headed. It's never done that to me. But, as I said, anxiety is a hypo symptom. Raising your FT3 will make it go away.

[Yellup1 in reply to greygoose]

Yes you’re right that meat is a source of iron that’s true .

Yes I’ll raise that T3 ! Hopefully it will get rid of some of that anxiety ! 🙏🤞☺️

[Bearo in reply to greygoose]

I never had any problems with supplements, probably because I don’t have any digestive problems but Just to say that a 1,000 dose of B12 brought on my motion sickness symptoms quite badly. I think I was ok on a 500 dose.

[greygoose in reply to Bearo]

Sorry, I have no idea what you're alluding to. Who was talking about problems with supplements?

[Bearo in reply to greygoose]

OP: “My B12 levels were pretty good . I was taking a very high dose lately for a couple of weeks of 2400 mg but I think that was too high and it made me a bit light headed .”

GG: “Not a particularly high dose of B12 - some people take 5000 - I doubt it would have caused side-effects. But, just taking B12 in isolation is not going to do you much good. The Bs all work together and need to be kept balanced, so taking a good B complex as a maintenance dose would be far better.”

Sorry, my reply slid down to the bottom of the thread so it lost context.

[greygoose in reply to Bearo]

OK! Yes, that happens on this forum, and in the end it can get quite incomprehensible! lol