Hello my latest blood test shown High TSH (6.36), and high LDL cholesterol (6), I had full blood test done in May and my TSH was very low (0.26)that s why doctor lowered my eltroxin from 200mg down to 175mg, retest was done three months later, now my ldl cholesterol is going up again even though i follow low fat low sugar diet, actually lost 4 stones in last 10 months, i also take lots of supplements like calcium, inulin and psylium , do they all interfere with my morning dose of eltroxin and therefore body is not getting enough? thanks for opinions, my doctor is pushing me into statins but I am still ressisting as my HDL is very good (2) also triglycerides normal (0.9)
Hight TSH and High LDL cholesterol connection - Thyroid UK
Hight TSH and High LDL cholesterol connection
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deni78
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Hi deni78,
your TSH is now far too high , suggesting your dose has been reduced by too much:
GP's should be aiming to keep TSH below about 2 /2.5 ish at the most ... several recommendations to this effect here : healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Statins / cholesterol .. levothyroxine dose should be increased to lower TSH and this should in turn lower your cholesterol.
nhs.uk/conditions/statins/c... .nhs.uk/conditions/statins/considerations/
"If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid."
So do not agree to be pushed into taking statins until thyroid has been appropriately treated... ( and be aware ~ GP practices are given incentives to prescribe statins , they are not given any incentives to treat hypothyroidism optimally... so you will come under pressure to accept statins )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Calcium ... if taken too close to levothyroxine is known to reduce the amount of levothyroxine you absorb from each dose. You need at least a 4 hour gap from calcium .
Lot's of things can affect the amount of levo that is absorbed from the gut ... as a general rule , take it on an empty stomach with water , and leave an hour between levo and 'anything else'/ food / coffee etc .
Some things need a much longer gap than an hour.
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu.... where-and-how-is-levo-absorbed-....-a-collection-of-information.
I didnt realize taking my tablets together with supplements can interfere as much so will separate my thyroid meds from now... Do you think weight loss could impact my levels as doctor changed it twice in last 10months...
So if you have been taking calcium / other stuff too close to levo , that may explain your relatively high dose of 200mcg (100 - 150mcg is more common) .
your doctor 'should' have checked this out with you previously and checked what else you were taking close to levo .
Be aware that if you were taking eg . calcium with levo , and now move it further away ,,then in effect it will be the same as giving yourself a dose increase. ( you need one at the moment anyway , so that shouldn't be a problem for you .... but you will need to recheck thyroid blood 6 weeks after you make a change such as this different absorption will affect blood levels)
Significant weigh loss/ gain can sometimes affect the dose needed, yes .
I only took supplements for past 6 weeks no more so my doctor was not aware of it. My dose increased in both pregnancies as body obviously needed it... I started losing weight last Sept and had my levels checked in November where my first descrease happened.. Was on 225mg for past 10 years... Second decrease was in my as tsh was lower then limit... So fingers crossed if i take eltroxin on its own it will balance... And also bring cholesterol bit down but not raise anymore... I know there is so much opinions about it these days.. I feel cheated that it didnt go down with so much effort i put into diet.. But it all has more factors so priority is get my TSH back to normal level👍
Your doctor should not be dosing by the TSH. It's a very bad indicator of thyroid status. A high TSH like yours means that your FT3 is low, and that is why your cholesterol is high.
Cholesterol levels have nothing to do with diet - and certainly not with fat consumption! It is made in the liver. And it is made in the liver because your body needs it. Low levels of cholesterol are far more dangerous than high ones. However, when T3 is low, the body cannot process cholesterol correctly, and it tends to build up in the blood.
Why are you taking calcium? That is not a good thing to take. It's not well absorbed, and that, too, can build up in the arteries. Are you taking vit D?
I am taking calcium supplements as i often suffer with leg cramps especially in the night.. Its actually magnesium and calcium supplement😔 my blood test doesnt show my T3 levels😩 only free T4 which is 15.2.. I do not have thyriod for past 25 years so dependent on eltroxin.. My levels started to change with my weight loss.
Magnesium for cramps is good, but not calcium. Very, very doubtful you need it, unlike magnesium. Most people are deficient in magnesium. I really would not recommend continuing with the calcium. When was your calcium last tested?
Ok never realised calcium is as bad. My levels are within normal range 2.2 so have to ditch that and just take magnesium
in reply to greygoose
Just had my magnesium tested as part of a battery of diagnostic tests. To my surprise it’s over range x2.
I take a supplement. 400 mg Mag Carb
Why is there so much confusion about saturated fats from food and high cholesterol if we cant really do anything with it🤔?
I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
From your reply i gather that we can't make any impact to lower cholesterol by changing diet.. I for example gave up all sugary fried bad food.. No smoking or excessive alkohol but it had no impact... First thing my doctor said was i m consuming too much saturated fats like fried food.. Bacon etc🤔
in reply to deni78
Curious: did your doctor ask you about your diet before telling you that you eat too much fried food and bacon?
deni78 in reply to
Yeah he kind of gently suggested it i should eat more veg and fruit and not cakes sugary stuff and processed salami and bacon... I also went for this quick finger test for cholesterol and pharmacist told me exactly same making me feel so stupid especially when i really watched my diet over the last ten months... I read so much about body creating its own cholesterol and if it needs then why to kill it with statins.. I heard they will also reduce my good hdl😕 so i m resisting as much as i can... Its just my opinion againt theirs..
in reply to deni78
That sounds so typical of doctors and pharmacists...I would not pay much attention to them if I were you. Many people lose weight and regain their health on high fat diets. But that means eating healthful fats (not processed and hydrogenated fats such as frying oil). Healthful fats are butter, ghee, egg yolks, coconuts, olives, nuts, seeds, almonds, avocados and fatty fish, just to mention a few. Unhealthy fats are inflammatory. They include margarine, sunflower oil and maize oil. There is fat and there is fat. I have personally found healthful fats (both saturated and unsaturated) to have amazing health effects. Many doctors are stuck in the 1970s when fat was considered dangerous and the cause of heart attacks. I would say the real danger is trans fats (processed, unnatural fats that you won´t find in nature) and sugar, and that includes hidden sugar which you find in almost anything these days.
After all, we were hunters and gatherers before we became farmers. So, I think we can assume that our bodies are genetically designed to handle natural fats (animal and vegetable), but not processed foods and grains that we have learned to grow and process in the past 100 or so years.
deni78 in reply to
Yes totally agree with you.. I informed my doctor i m im weightloss mode too and not finished losing.. I have another stone to go... I totally gave up all with sugar white pasta rice and flour but i will have occasional threats and cheat days as i hope to make it into my lifestyle as i really enjoy it... Love replacing all sides with veg.. Love baking my linseed bread and so many recipes my family really enjoy so i know my diet is so much better now... Only use olive oil butter but nothing in extreme. So i will up my b12 vitamins and concentrate on iron too.. Take my meds by night and fingers crossed all will be OK 😁
in reply to deni78
I keep my fingers crossed for you🤞. Personally, I have found weight loss easier with less fast carbs and more natural fats. In my experience, healthy fats are filling so you cannot eat much of them. The problem arises when you mix fat with sugar.
Many hypos have problems with insulin resistance (it seems being hypo for years messes us up pretty badly as low thyroid hormone levels affect the body´s ability to regulate blood sugar and insulin production), and insulin is a fat-storing hormone. Over the 20+ years since I was diagnosed, I have found doctors to be much less interested in insulin and blood sugar levels than cholesterol, although insulin resistance is known to cause weight gain and an inability to lose weight. Doctors seem to think that hypos must eat a lot of fat because they have weight problems, and weight problems can only be caused by fat (according to doctors). I have never gained more weight than when I was on low-fat, high-carb diet (eating a lot of "healthy" Weight Watcher´s products, low in fat but very high in sugar, which of course is fine according to WW since sugar only contains half as much calories as fat).
deni78 in reply to
Yes i also think that sugar in foods is unnecessary and it causes bigger damage than healthy fats...it was great wake up call for me anyway😁 i was defo insulin resistance.. Had Pcos and just felt misreable so something had to change... Now i just feel so much better eating whole foods... I am greatful for all d info i learned from this forum already so when i go to my gp in Sept i will have much clearer picture if he starts to push me into statins again.. I rather have higher cholesterol than ruined liver and muscle damage.. He will probably point at my diet too🙄
As I always say, never take nutritional advice from a doctor. They know nothing about it. Eating bacon is not going to raise your cholesterol levels. Fat and cholesterol are two entirely different substances, and one does not magically change into the other when eaten.
This article explains that having high inflation raises cholesterol levels to combat it. But, so does having low T3. But cholesterol levels have nothing to do with diet. Cholesterol is made in the liver, not eaten. So, no, changing diet is not going to lower cholesterol. And, frankly, why would you want to lower it? The body needs it. It has a job to do. It's far more dangerous to have low levels of cholesterol than high levels. High levels do not cause heart attacks and strokes, low levels do.
Hi deni78,
Welcome to the forum 🙂
Are you in the UK? Might be an idea to put where you are located on your profile.
Also you can add some history of your thyroid issues so others can see what's been happening?
Have you had a thyroidectomy? Others will be able to make more suggestions that will hopefully help you.
Best wishes.
Hi I m located in Ireland.. And i had thyroid removed at very young age of 20. So 25 years on eltroxin which is checked by GP every six months.. Only since my weightloss journey my levels are off but cholesterol stayed high even though i lost significant amount of weight😕 so now i m trying to figure out what is best to go forward if statins are as bad as it sounds😔
You won’t need statins
Cholesterol will drop as TSH drops
Levothyroxine should always be taken on its own on empty stomach and nothing apart from water for at least an hour after
No other supplements within 2 hours
No magnesium, iron, calcium, vitamin D tablets, HRT or PPI within 4 hours
If you have been taking levothyroxine incorrectly…..perhaps stay on current dose levothyroxine and retest in 6-8 weeks after taking correctly
Then you may find you don’t need dose increase at all
ALWAYS test early morning, around 9am, only drink water between waking and testing and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
Brilliant thank you.. That sounds like a plan.. I will not increase it until my retest. amazing my doctor never specified it has to be taken on empty stomach 😕 and i questioned this few times.... But thinking back even before my weightloss journey i didnt strictly take it in d morning.. Usually with food and levels vere fine but cholesterol high too.. Always thought it was my sweet tooth causing it.. So on very low sugar noe and i love my new lifestyle😂 also in aim to lower cholesterol i started few supplements like plant sterols.. Do you think it is ok to take.. Obviously not together with levo
It should say on the patient instructions inside the packet (PIL leaflet)
Levothyroxine is an extremely fussy hormone and should always be taken on an empty stomach and then nothing apart from water for at least an hour after
Many people take Levothyroxine soon after waking, but it may be more convenient and perhaps more effective taken at bedtime
verywellhealth.com/best-tim...
markvanderpump.co.uk/blog/p...
markvanderpump.co.uk/blog/p...
No other medication or supplements at same as Levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hour gap.
Some like iron, calcium, magnesium, HRT, omeprazole or vitamin D should be four hours away
(Time gap doesn't apply to Vitamin D mouth spray)
If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test
If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal
nhs.uk/conditions/statins/c...
If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid.
Thats great idea taking it at night instead of mornings as those are usually hectic with kids etc.. I will try that👍
And therefore i would be OK to take my supplements in the morning as usually?
yes
What supplements exactly
When did you last have vitamin D, folate, B12 and ferritin tested
Magnesium supplement best taken afternoon or evening (at least 4 hours before levothyroxine)
If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test
If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal
REMEMBER.....very important....stop taking any supplements that contain biotin a week before ALL BLOOD TESTS as biotin can falsely affect test results - eg vitamin B complex
I had full blood levels checked and all in normal level apart Tsh and high LdL.Supplements i take is psylium husk for more fibre (on low carb diet mainly) magnesium for cramps and also inositol /choline as it supposed to be good for fatty acid metabolism..
We need to see actual results and ranges
Within range means nothing
Vitamin levels for example
B12 210 (180-680) is too low
B12 560 (180-680) is good
They are both “normal” as both are within range
Oh okB12 was 399
FOLATE 17.2
FERRITIN 23.2
No result for VIT D
Folate please add ranges (figures in brackets after each result)
Different labs have different ranges
Ferritin is deficient at under 30
B12 is inadequate
Ferritin range is on my results 13 - 50So defo on low side
Folate range 3 - 26.8
Ferritin range is normally 13 - 150
Request GP do full iron panel test for anaemia
cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...
Serum ferritin level is the biochemical test, which most reliably correlates with relative total body iron stores. In all people, a serum ferritin level of less than 30 micrograms/L confirms the diagnosis of iron deficiency.
Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing. It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron
Medichecks iron panel test
medichecks.com/products/iro...
Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet
Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption
List of iron rich foods
Links about iron and ferritin
irondisorders.org/too-littl...
davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...
Great in-depth article on low ferritin
oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...
drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...
This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Posts discussing Three Arrows as very effective supplement
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Iron patches
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...
Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Iron and thyroid link
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Excellent article on iron and thyroid
cambridge.org/core/journals...
Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Good iron but low ferritin
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Chicken livers if iron is good, but ferritin low
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Shellfish and Mussels are excellent source of iron
healthline.com/nutrition/he...
Heme iron v non heme
hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...
Ferritin over 100 to alleviate symptoms
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Great research article discussing similar…..ferritin over 100 often necessary
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Low Iron implicated in hypothyroidism
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Ferritin range on Medichecks
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Inflammation affecting ferritin
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
We have received further information the lab about ferritin reference ranges. They confirm that they are sex dependent up to the age of 60, then beyond the age of 60 the reference range is the same for both sexes:
Males 16-60: 30-400 ug/L
Female's: 16-60: 30-150
Both >60: 30-650
The lower limit of 30 ug/L is in accordance with the updated NICE guidance and the upper limits are in accordance with guidance from the Association of Clinical Biochemists. ‘
I had full iron test done too.Serum iron 16 (9-30)
Transferrin 2.4 (2-3.6)
Saturation 27% (15-45)
TIBC 60umol (41-77)
Does it indicate i need to get iron supplement?
Will flag up for SeasideSusie to comment on, she’s the iron expert
deni78
Serum iron 16 (9-30)
Transferrin 2.4 (2-3.6)
Saturation 27% (15-45)
TIBC 60umol (41-77)
Ferritin 23.2 (presumably range is 13-150 and not 13-50 as mentioned above)
Optimal iron panel levels according to rt3-adrenals.org/Iron_test_... are:
Serum iron: 55 to 70% of the range, higher end for men - yours is 33.33% through range
Saturation: optimal is 35 to 45%, higher end for men - yours is 27%
Transferrin: Low in range indicates lack of capacity for additional iron, High in range indicates body's need for supplemental iron - yours is low in range
Ferritin - as ranges vary so much it's difficult to give an optimal percentage, but some experts say the optimal ferritin level for thyroid function is 90-110ug/L.
NICE say that a ferritin level below 30 = iron deficiency:
cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...
However, even though your serum iron and saturation are not at optimal levels I wouldn't say they show deficiency.
An iron panel wont show anaemia, it will only show if you have iron deficiency, it's a full blood count which indicates anaemia.
Thats great thank you..maybe my test has those info too.. Not sure what to look for?
Full blood count will show
Haemoglobin
Haematocrit
MCV
MCH
MCHC
Red blood cells
White blood cells (neutrophils, lymphocytes, etc)
do you think with my results of iron test i need to supplement with iron?
thanks
I had full iron test done too.Serum iron 16 (9-30)
Transferrin 2.4 (2-3.6)
Saturation 27% (15-45)
TIBC 60umol (41-77)
thanks
SlowDragonAdministrator
B12
Low B12 symptoms
b12deficiency.info/signs-an...
methyl-life.com/blogs/defic...
With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement and add a separate vitamin B Complex after a week
Then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), you may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.
If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week
B12 drops
natureprovides.com/products...
Or
B12 sublingual lozenges
uk.iherb.com/pr/jarrow-form...
cytoplan.co.uk/shop-by-prod...
B12 range in U.K. is too wide
Interesting that in this research B12 below 400 is considered inadequate
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Low folate
supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid)
This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too
Difference between folate and folic acid
healthline.com/nutrition/fo...
B vitamins best taken after breakfast
Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule)
Thorne currently difficult to find at reasonable price, should be around £20-£25. iherb.com often have in stock. Or try ebay
Other options
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....
IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results
endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...
endocrinenews.endocrine.org...
In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg) and continue separate B12
Post discussing how biotin can affect test results
As far as statins go, when my GP said she wanted to put me on them, I started doing LOADS of research especially because both my mum and dad had heart issues. BUT... it turns out that the benefit is MINIMAL. There are many vids on YouTube, one that is over an hour long, but definitely worth the time to watch, search "Statin Nation." If you want a quick one though, watch this: youtu.be/AuhW4e-Ych0
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