TSH conundrum : I'm a 72yr old male. Diagnosed... - Thyroid UK

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TSH conundrum

seasider162 profile image
14 Replies

I'm a 72yr old male. Diagnosed with hypothyroidism 15 years ago. Told I had autoimmune thyroid disease following blood test showing high antibodies. Currently on 125 msg thyroxine. Dr has never tested anything apart from TSH and occasionally FreeT4 and based my medication on these results. Fortunately I have been ok health wise and happily carried on with prescribed meds.

For years my TSH has been just under 1 but last year went up to 3.69. Dr said it's fine because it was within range. However my health has started to show similar problems that many people on this site experience - bad constipation, fatigue, poor concentration, and a hoarse croaky voice.

Rang Dr because I thought I was undermedicated. So Dr suggested further blood test. Armed with valuable information gleaned from this site(thank you everyone) I asked the nurse if they would test TSH, T3, T4, vit D, ferritin, folate and B12. She gave me a strange look but said she would ask the duty doctor. On her return she said the doctor wanted to know where I got my information from. I told her it was advised by Thyroid UK. She disappeared again and returned to say that the doctor agreed to the tests. RESULT!!

Not yet spoken to doctor but requested print out of results which I list below. Can't believe the TSH score! Totally expected it to be way above 4.0. All other levels appear OK. Can anyone explain this to me?

Nov 2022 TSH 3.69 (0.35-4.94) 3/8/23 TSH 0.03 (0.35-4.94)

T4 14 (8.0-19.1) T4 18.4 (8.0-4.94)

Cholesterol 5.4 T3 5.0 (2.4-6.0)

Vit D 66 (>50 adequate)

Ferritin 122.1 (20-300)

Folate 18.2 (3.0-20)

Vit B12 369 (200-700)

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14 Replies
PurpleNails profile image
PurpleNailsAdministrator

This is your 1st post so although you been a member for a long time, welcome to forum.

“T4 18.4 (8.0-4.94)” This looks incorrect. Can you please check it?

Doesn’t look like FT3 had been tested, so you can have low TSH & good / over-range FT4 but if conversion very poor your FT3 is low & you can have hypothyroid symptoms.

There always the possibility your FT3 is not low as over replacement can on occasion feel similar to hypothyroidism. Which is why testing FT3 is important.

Vitamin D & B12 are in range but could be improved as not optimal.

If dr suggest dose reduction based in low TSH - which is often the case - argue your FT4 is not over range.

seasider162 profile image
seasider162 in reply to PurpleNails

Thank you Purple Nails.Yes should read T4 18.4(8.0-19.1)

T3 was 5.0 (2.4-6.0)

Hope this helps.

PurpleNails profile image
PurpleNailsAdministrator in reply to seasider162

FT4: 18.4 pmol/l (Range 8 - 19.1) 93.69%

FT3: 5 pmol/l (Range 2.4 - 6) 72.22%

Ok so you have decent levels with FT4 at 93% & FT3 at 72% through each range.

Most are well when FT4 in top 3rd of range & FT3 over 50%. Which yours are.

Your doctor likely won’t like your TSH being low (even though your FT4 & FT3 are in range) & will say you are “hyper” and often say things such as this will affect your heart & bones.

This is because over range high thyroid levels long term can affect you & they go by TSH not FT4 & FT3.

I’d expect they’ll suggest a 25mcg daily reduction & retest in 6-8 weeks. You might like to suggest a reduction every other day.

Have you previously been on higher dose?

Many doctors also believe older people need less hormones & a high TSH is better, some do find as they become older they need less replacement, but this is for many reasons and shouldn’t be the aim by doctor.

seasider162 profile image
seasider162 in reply to PurpleNails

Thanks for your detailed advice. Much appreciated. 125mcg is highest dose I have been on.

More prepared now in what to say when doctor rings next week!

greygoose profile image
greygoose

You have Hashi's, so not surprising if your levels fluctuate. Although it's perfectly normal that your TSH has dropped because your FT4 has gone up considerably. But, whether this is due to your dose or Hashi's fluctuations is anybody's guess.

However, TSH is the absolute least important number. In fact, once it gets below 1 it's more or less irrelevant because it's a very bad indicator of thyroid status. Your FT4 is not over-range, so refuse any attempt to reduce your dose. Low TSH is not dangerus in any way. It's low because you don't need it.

seasider162 profile image
seasider162 in reply to greygoose

Thank you Greygoose. More prepared now for when doctor rings next week. Your advice and time is much appreciated.

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to seasider162

You're welcome. :)

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

was test done as recommended…..early morning, fasting and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Do you always get same brand levothyroxine at each prescription

Work on improving low B12 and vitamin D

Possibly consider reducing levothyroxine by 12.5mcg x 4 days week

125mcg x 3 days and 112.5mcg 4 days week

Get weekly pill dispenser so you know which dose which day

Cut 25mcg in half using pill cutter or sharp craft scalpel

Then retest in 6-8 weeks

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

vitamin D

GP will often only prescribe to bring vitamin D levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol or even 80nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via NHS private testing service when supplementing

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function.

There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7.

One spray = 1000iu

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with thyroid issues we frequently need higher dose than average

Vitamin D and thyroid disease

grassrootshealth.net/blog/t...

Vitamin D may prevent Autoimmune disease

newscientist.com/article/23...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Interesting article by Dr Malcolm Kendrick on magnesium

drmalcolmkendrick.org/categ...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Low B12 symptoms

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

methyl-life.com/blogs/defic...

With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement and add a separate vitamin B Complex after a week

Then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), you may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week

B12 drops

natureprovides.com/products...

Or

B12 sublingual lozenges

uk.iherb.com/pr/jarrow-form...

cytoplan.co.uk/shop-by-prod...

B12 range in U.K. is too wide

Interesting that in this research B12 below 400 is considered inadequate

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Low folate

supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in (not folic acid)

This can help keep all B vitamins in balance and will help improve B12 levels too

Difference between folate and folic acid

healthline.com/nutrition/fo...

Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

Thorne Basic B recommended vitamin B complex that contains folate, but they are large capsules. (You can tip powder out if can’t swallow capsule)

Thorne currently difficult to find at reasonable price, should be around £20-£25. iherb.com often have in stock. Or try ebay

Other options

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....

IMPORTANT......If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before ALL BLOOD TESTS , as biotin can falsely affect test results

endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...

endocrinenews.endocrine.org...

In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you might want to consider taking a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg) and continue separate B12

Post discussing how biotin can affect test results

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Lastly

As you have Hashimoto’s GP should have tested for coeliac at diagnosis….did they

If not get tested BEFORE considering trial on strictly gluten free diet

seasider162 profile image
seasider162 in reply to SlowDragon

Wow. Thank you so much Slow Dragon for all your advice. Much appreciated. Yes I stopped med 24hours before bloods and fasted even though dr gave me a pm appointment. I noted that you have advised many people of similar on this site. Dr said nothing about this of course!!

Never been tested for coeliac. Will mention this to doctor when he rings next week.

Thought I would ask for advice on this site so that I am prepared for what the Dr might say.

Your help,knowledge and kindness is invaluable.

Thank you again.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to seasider162

In case GP difficult re coeliac test

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng20/c...

Offer serological testing for coeliac disease to:

people with any of the following:

persistent unexplained abdominal or gastrointestinal symptoms

faltering growth

prolonged fatigue

unexpected weight loss

severe or persistent mouth ulcers

unexplained iron, vitamin B12 or folate deficiency

type 1 diabetes, at diagnosis

autoimmune thyroid disease, at diagnosis

irritable bowel syndrome (in adults)

first‑degree relatives of people with coeliac dise

seasider162 profile image
seasider162

Thank you

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