Hi everyone,
I was planning to get a Vitamin B complex vitamin as my recent ferritin was 60 ug/L (range 13 to 150) and B12 was 77pmol/L (range 25 to 165) so although not terrible they could be improved.
I guess people are not able to recommend particular brands but can anyone recommend what to look for in a good B complex?
Many thanks
Gina
Ginid
It's fine to mention brands.
For B Complex it's best to look for one that says 'bioavailable' or 'bioactive' as these are the best forms of the active ingredients, eg methylcobalamin and methylfolate.
My suggestion is Thorne Basic B.
I would avoid any B Complex that contains Vit C as well because Vit C keeps the body from using the B12 included. They should be taken 2 hours away from each other.
A B Complex will not help your Ferritin level. Ferritin is your iron store and nothing to do with B vitamins.
With a Ferritin level of 60 it doesn't suggest iron deficiency so you shouldn't take iron tablets unless you do an iron panel and a full blood count to determine if you have iron deficiency or anaemia. You could look to improve your Ferritin level through diet and the best way is with liver (no more than 200g per week due to it's high Vit A content), liver pate, black pudding, etc.
Thank you Seaside Susie.
I forgot to mention that my folate level was 5.3ug/l (range >2) so will the B complex help to improve that or do you think or can I just take B9 (which I think is folate?)
Or am I best just to take the B complex anyway?!
I am trying to get my folate up following an advanced thyroid blood test and I posted on here before and someone recommended I try to improve my D, folate and ferritin (I have just started taking D3drops (Nature's Best 4000 IU)and K2 with trans isomer (KPearls by Pharma Nord) I take with a fatty meal (not on Levo yet, want to try and improve vit levels first and then retest)
Also do you know how to find any previous posts one has made on Health Unlocked? I cannot for the life of me find my old posts?!
Many thanks
There’s a good level of folate in the Thorne basic b for that. But best done with green leafy veg
Thanks.I do eat a fair amount of spinach in my own spinach soup and add it to smoothies. Guess I need even more greens!
ginid
I can only relate my own experience.
If you had folate deficiency then your GP should prescribe folic acid. You don't have folate deficiency, yours is on the low side and I don't think you need a stand alone folate supplement. A good B Complex contains all the B vitamins and helps keep them balanced and would contain around 400mcg methylfolate which generally is enough to raise a low folate level. I used Thorne Basic B - 1 capsule - and my folate level increased from the bottom of the range to the top of the range in 2.5 months. I still take 1 capsule daily now as a maintenance dose and I have had no problems with the balance of any of the B vits.
I also eat broccoli regularly, about 5 days a week, this alone is not enough for me to keep folate at a good level (I experimented with a different B Complex).
Also was wondering about these added ingredients in the Thorne one,especially the magnesium citrate?Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, microcrystalline cellulose, calcium laurate, magnesium citrate, silicon dioxide.
This is something you have to make up your own mind about. I like to keep excipients to a minimum but sometimes it's very hard to find a good supplement without some. I did try a food based B Complex with no additives, just the capsule shell. It didn't work for me so I went back to Thorne Basic B.
What is your concern with the magnesium citrate?
Also do you know how to find any previous posts one has made on Health Unlocked? I cannot for the life of me find my old posts?!
Click on your user name or your avatar, this takes you to your profile page where you will see POSTS and REPLIES. "Posts" are the threads you have started yourself, "Replies" show every post you made and every reply you've made to your own and other members' posts.
Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.
I don't have a particular issue with the mag sterate itself,was just looking for one with least additives but I guess Thorne looks the best .
Maybe I don't really even need a B complex as Folate and B12 seem ok albeit a bit low. Wonder if it's ok to just take a capsule every other day or once every 3 days rather than daily?
Gina
ginid
I don't have a particular issue with the mag sterate itself,was just looking for one with least additives but I guess Thorne looks the best .
You asked about magesium citrate, not magnesium stearate. It doesn't contain magnesium stearate.
Maybe I don't really even need a B complex as Folate and B12 seem ok albeit a bit low.
B12 was 77pmol/L (range 25 to 165)
folate level was 5.3ug/l (range >2)
With Active B12 (which yours is) then anything below 70 is suggested to test for B12 deficiency. You are a little over that so it's considered low. On here we tend to suggest with Active B12 we should aim for over 100.
When folate doesn't have a proper range with an upper and lower limit, we tend to suggest getting it into double figures. Again yours is low, especially considering that NICE Clinical Knowledge Summary says that 3–4.5ug/L should be interpreted as suggestive of deficiency but not diagnostic, you are above that but not by much.
In my opinion 1 x Thorne Basic B would be a good idea to get your levels where they need to be to be optimal, ie Active B12 100+ and folate into double figures. Maybe retest in 3 months and see where they are then, if you've reached optimal you could try 1 capsule alternate days, retest after another 3 months to see if that maintains your optimal levels.
It is, of course, your choice.
Thanks so much SeasideSusie!
Typo re the magnesium.Ignore me!
I am one of the most indecisive people but I will give Thorne a try.
Thanks so much for your advice.
All the best,
Gina
Also was wondering about these added ingredients in the Thorne one,especially the magnesium citrate?Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, microcrystalline cellulose, calcium laurate, magnesium citrate, silicon dioxide.
Thanks
Sorry for another post but some reviews of Torhne have complained about the mega high does of Thiamine (about 7000% of daily recommended, one even complained of thiamine toxicity)and B12 (about 16,000%of daily recommended) Would be good to find one that does not have such mega doses.
Mind you Doctors Best has about 40,000% of RDA.
I don't understand why the need for such high doses?
B12 is absolutely fine, I’m reading the XX Brain at the mo and she says do find one with 500mg b12. My only concern has actually been the higher folate, although the author of the xx brain advises that amount.
It’s harder to absorb b12 with age.
Not aware of b1 issues but that doesn’t mean there’s not . B6 is one to watch and shouldn’t be over 10 daily, as in Thorne . Can do higher for shorter amounts of time.
I’ve taken “together health b complex” (won’t link for some reason) before but switched up to Thorne and then berrocca. Wasn’t aware of vit c and b12 issue then though (only read here today!)- “it’s lower amounts and methylated. It has vit c but I think that was for preserving? I was thinking of going back to them and adding in a b12 on top. Either that or Thorne.
I’d take an extra sublingual b12 on top with that. I use cytoplan, (when I remember!)
Thank you for your reply.
There’s no official upper tolerable limit to thiamine as there’s no known issues.
There is with b6 though.
Not just the amount of B6, but the form it is in.
I have posted this before:
Some time ago, I mentioned that the form in which we take vitamin B6 is important. I think I linked to this paper:
Toxicol In Vitro . 2017 Oct;44:206-212.
doi: 10.1016/j.tiv.2017.07.009. Epub 2017 Jul 14.
The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function
Misha F Vrolijk 1 , Antoon Opperhuizen 2 , Eugène H J M Jansen 3 , Geja J Hageman 4 , Aalt Bast 4 , Guido R M M Haenen 4
• PMID: 28716455
• DOI: 10.1016/j.tiv.2017.07.009
Abstract
Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, >50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic and the contribution of the various B6 vitamers to this toxicity is largely unknown. In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested. Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine. In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5'-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
Keywords: Neuropathy; Neurotoxic; Pyridoxine; Supplements; Vitamin B6.
Full paper is, unfortunately, behind a paywall:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/287...
In the paper, they define mega doses as > 50. And the low doses at which negative effects have been noticed being as little as 2. The conclusion of the paper says:
In conclusion, the present study strongly indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to the vitamer that is used in the supplements, namely pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-phosphate. As a consequence, the paradox arises that the symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency. Vitamin B6 supplements are used by a large number of people. The safety of vitamin B6 is debated and recently EFSA has lowered the upper limit for vitamin B6. The question is whether lowering the safe dose for vitamin B6 is the solution. Remarkably, even at relatively low dose, vitamin B6 supplementation has given rise to complaints. Our study indicates that the toxicity of vitamin B6 is not only determined by the dose, but by the vitamer in which it is taken. Perhaps it might be better to replace pyridoxine by pyridoxal or pyridoxal-phosphate as vitamin B6 supplements, which are much less toxic. In this way, the vitamin B6 paradox may potentially be prevented.
I'd rather play safe and avoid any pyridoxine in supplements.
From <healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...
Sorry, do you know which form the Thorne has?
There’s some that say take 3 months off a year then take only 10
The problem is that it’s v good for women’s health especially in peri menopause
The Thorne B Basic has:
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 10mg
Which is the OK form! 
I briefly joined a b6 toxicity group and they said it didn’t matter what the form, it could cause issues in those for whom it would.
There’s one complex I know of without b6, can’t remember the brand though!
(No idea if they’re right though.)
It's hard to know what to think isn't it! Sometimes I feel more confused the more articles I read on the web!😂
It is! The together health one (can be found in boots or on their website) has only 5 b6 of of the type that Hel has linked to as being ok.
This one has none.
Thanks everyone for all the advice and input. Much appreciated.
I used to take B50 or 100's for years, then with all the issues thyroid/adrenal I've been taking a closer look and realize many were not ideal. To this day I have yet to find a formula that's just right. I'm only now learning from this forum that too much B6 is not good, so won't even look at "B-50" or 100 anymore. Also used to not get niacin flush, but about 3 years ago it started, so have to be careful w/that. Some like the flush, but I don't. My latest B-complex is Pure Encapsulation. Lots of them also come w/PABA and Inosital, not sure why. I don't know if I have the MTHFR gene but I tend to not like the ones formulated for that. Makes me jittery. Saw Forefront health sells a liquid but has no B12 or folate, he reasons they cause cancer? He also advocates to not supplement iron, too... News to me.... Yes, B Complex is hard to find a good suitable match. Looking at Thorne again, I like their Basic B.
Saw Forefront health sells a liquid but has no B12 or folate, he reasons they cause cancer?
People who have never supplemented vitamin B12 but discover they have extremely high levels (well over the range) of vitamin B12 in the blood may turn out to have cancer, although this is not definite by any means.
Having some forms of cancer, particularly liver-related cancers, can lead to vitamin B12 leaking out of the liver and into the bloodstream, but this is not the only cause of high levels in those who have never supplemented.
But someone who has supplemented B12, and has high levels of B12 in the blood has no way of knowing whether their high level is due to supplementing or something else.
There is no evidence that I know of to link supplementing B12 with causing cancers. The causation probably goes in the opposite direction and it is cancer that causes high levels of B12, not high levels of B12 causing cancer.
I've never researched whether folate levels and supplementing folate have the same issues as testing and/or supplementing B12.
Ah, very interesting, makes sense. I've never heard these supplements cause cancer so I was rather perplexed to read that, as he promotes thyroid health and B12 is something to keep an eye on. One other thought about Folic Acid/Folate that possibly attributes comes from info I read about dogs having too much in their diet/kibbles and can contribute to cells having a greater turnover rate contributing to tumor formation and growth of existing ones. Would almost think that 'could' apply to humans who may already have cancer, so keep folate low or don't supplement. ?? No idea. Also don't really know what constitutes a high folate as there's no range, just needs to be greater than a certain %. I have read that there is a complication of low B12 and high folate but again, what is high folate? And that combo normally means anemia of some sort.
Yes,I'm thinking about the Thorne but not taking everyday. I guess we will always read conflicting articles but I guess we'd drive ourself nuts if we read too much. Excuse my sense of humour but Something will get us in the end!!
I concur! 😅 TMI - it can be overwhelming, but does help us weigh this vs that! I never knew the B6 should stay low in the combo until this forum. A great learning experience.
Another thing, I just took the Pure Encapsulation B Complex today for the first time. 10 min later a headache. I feel like it's the Niacin content. So it's a no from me on that one. $22 bucks in the garbage. Too bad they don't sell samples. But I think I know why they don't!
Are you sure it was that that gave you the headache? Might be worth another try just in case?
Oh yes, absolutely. 10 mins later headache. Looking 'more closely' ( i already read it 10 times!) too much Niacin. I waited a few hours for it to go away but no, I had to take ibuprofen. The other one I have is VitaminShoppe's B50. It's ok as in no side effects but it does have too much B6. I may just give Thorne a try, the Basic B-Complex. I see they have a variety.
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