Silly question re vitamin supplementation

[Mickeydooley]

I’m currently on a T4/t3 trial and have been monitored for the last 6 months at an endo clinic. I previously posted my last medichecks results which were done in July 2019 and all were good except that vitamin d whilst in range was a bit low. I’ve been supplementing since. I’m due back at the clinic in May for a review appointment. My question is - if I get all my vitamins levels optimal will this affect my thyroid test results? I want to feel better obviously but I don’t want the endos to take me off my t3 which I fought so hard to get. I’m still having some hypo symptoms but because my TSH is suppressed they refuse to increase my medication. (75mcg levo and 20mcg levo).

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Testing vitamin levels before supplementing

Getting vitamin levels optimal can help TSH to rise

Unlikely on T3. Almost inevitable on T3 that TSH is suppressed

Good vitamin levels could lower FT4, showing you need dose increase in levothyroxine

Looking at previous post your Ft4 is likely too low at 32%

So vitamin levels may be low

When were they last tested?

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

when also on T3, make sure to take last 5mcg (or third of dose) 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test

Is this how you do your tests?

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

Last medichecks test (ultravit) was done July 2019. Unfortunately the endo clinic only operates in afternoon and my bloods are usually taken about 2.30pm. I make sure to take my levo 24 hours before test and t3 about 12 hours before test but I didn’t know only to take 5mcg. I normally split my dose and take 10mcg about 4am and the second 10mcg about 4pm. On day of testing I take 10mcg about 12 hours (usually about 3am) prior to blood draw. Comments on a previous post about vitamin levels suggested all were good apart from vit d being low in range. I’m glad to hear that by supplementing with vit D my T4 levels could show a decrease. Thank you.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

Personally I would split the 2nd 10mcg into 2 x 5mcg on day before bloods ...and take 1st 5mcg about 7 hours after first 10mcg dose and then 5mcg at 12 hours prior to blood test

If gluten free diet made no difference at all you probably don’t need to stick on it

Though some people only see reduction in antibodies when gluten free.

Obviously it’s easier to stick to if you get noticeable improvements as well

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you. I’ll try that next time but because my tests are usually carried out at about 2.30pm I’ll have to work it all out.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

One of the many reasons many of us choose to get full private testing BEFORE consultation

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

I did medichecks tests before my first consultation and have been monitored every six weeks for the last six months by endo clinic. Even if I did the private tests now they won’t look at them.

[Mickeydooley in reply to Mickeydooley]

And I absolutely detest doing finger prick tests. I don’t seem to bleed very well even after a hot shower and exercise. I get soooo stressed! I don’t know where to get a blood draw.

[helvella Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

And, having a drink of water, then lying down, with one arm hanging down (as vertically as possible). When your hand is really full of blood, only then do the fingerprick.

As you are lying down, enjoy the relaxation.

[Mickeydooley in reply to helvella]

Great advice. Thanks.

[LyraBelasqua in reply to SlowDragon]

"good vitamin levels could lower FT4". I was reading a paper about earthing yesterday which suggested something similar: a reduction in FT4, FT3 and an increase in TSH - the implication being that more thyroid hormone was getting into the cells. Is this what you are suggesting?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to LyraBelasqua]

Exactly

Low vitamin levels impede thyroid hormones

[LyraBelasqua in reply to SlowDragon]

Interesting if earthing could achieve a similar effect. The people involved in the study were not hypothyroid (but then, who knows?). It all sounds a bit off the wall, but intriguing nonetheless.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Did you get Dexa scan?

What vitamin supplements are you currently taking

Obviously good vitamin D and magnesium important for bones

As you have Hashimoto’s are you on gluten free diet ?

[Mickeydooley in reply to SlowDragon]

My DEXA scan is booked for end of March. I supplement with selenium, magnesium and vitamin d. I was gluten free for almost two years but recent events meant that the gluten free diet was abandoned. I’m trying to get my head around it all again. Tbh I didn’t notice any improvements when I was gluten free.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Mickeydooley]

Mickeydooley

My DEXA scan is booked for end of March. I supplement with selenium, magnesium and vitamin d.

I hope you're also supplementing with Vit K2-MK7 which is necessary when taking D3, as recommended and explained in my reply about your Vit D level in this post:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Mickeydooley in reply to SeasideSusie]

I supplement with the better by you spray which contains k2. However my ND told me that I should increase my vit d from 3000iu to 10,000 (at least temporarily) and I don’t know how much k2 I need for this amount of vitamin d?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Mickeydooley]

I have read that 90-100mcg K2 is the right amount for up to 10,000iu D3.

What level has your ND based his recommendation on? 10,000iu daily is a loading dose for those with severe deficiency. It's what I started on when my level was 15nmol/L.

[Mickeydooley in reply to SeasideSusie]

He saw my results and advised me that 10k was safe for me to take. Thanks for the info about k2. I’ll make sure to increase it now.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Mickeydooley]

Maybe you should keep an eye on your level yourself. Recommended is 100-150nmol/L (40-60ng/ml). Above 220nmol/L (88ng/ml) can lead to toxicity.

[Mickeydooley in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you. I will do.

[shaws Administrator]

Tell the endocrinologist that blood tests only relate to being on levothyroxine as both were introduced for one another. NDT contains T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin.

Before NDT, there were no blood tests and small increases until patients felt well saved people's lives from 1892 up until Big Pharma saw an opening to make profits for their companies. So levothyroxine (T4 alone) along with blood tests replaced NDT and no blood tests.

TSH is not a thyroid hormone. It is from the pituitary gland.

Excerpt:-

Conventional medicine today grossly underestimates the importance of optimal hormone levels. It remains disease-oriented, stuck in the ideas from the early 20th century. Endocrinologists are taught only to recognize and treat severe hormonal deficiencies caused by identifiable disease or damage affecting a gland, and to provide only enough hormone replacement to "normalize" certain tests.

They are actually taught to ignore the patient's signs and symptoms and all the complexities of the endocrine system. They practice "Reference Range Endocrinology"; accepting any hormone level anywhere within the laboratory's reference range as "normal", meaning "no disease". They fail to understand that population ranges do not define what is optimal for our species, or for any individual. The laboratory ranges include 95% of a group of "apparently healthy" adults who were not screened for symptoms. They include almost everyone! Worse, physicians ignore a person's actual thyroid hormone levels and their symptoms and rely almost entirely on the wrong test, the TSH, to diagnose and treat hypothyroidism.

hormonerestoration.com/

It's no wonder the above specialists cannot take on any more patients.

Another excerpt:

This illogical TSH-T4 thyroidology makes them incapable of diagnosing or properly treating hypothyroidism. It has has also corrupted the laboratory ranges for free T4 and free T3. Laboratories include physican-ordered tests from TSH-normal hospital and clinic patients in their ranges. They are actually sick patient ranges! In fact, most hormone deficiencies not due to failure of a gland--except for menopause. Most deficiencies are partial central hormone deficiencies--caused by hypothalamic-pituitary dysfunction--and partial resistance syndromes caused by genetic mutations of enzymes, receptors and other proteins needed for hormone action in the tissues..........

" TSH is not a thyroid hormone and is not an appropriate guide to thyroid replacement therapy.

The hypothalamic-pituitary secretion of TSH did not evolve to tell physicians what dose of inactive levothyroxine a person should swallow every day. A low or suppressed TSH on replacement therapy is not the same thing as a low TSH in primary hyperthyroidism.

hormonerestoration.com/

[Mickeydooley in reply to shaws]

Oh wow! I just read that article and the letter. It makes me very angry! And concerned. I was on hrt for years. Having discussed my symptoms with a gp she sent me to an hrt specialist who told me I could stay on it for as long as I needed/wanted to. However, the gp totally ignored the advice given and told me I should come off it because of the ‘side effects’. After years of nagging I decided to give it up.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

If we 'give up' I think our health might suffer even more but thanks to the internet we are more knowledgeable than the majority of experts 'it would seem'.

That's why many on this forum source their own hormones or add to the prescription ones and learn how best to improve their unpleasant symptoms.

[Mickeydooley in reply to shaws]

I’m 60 years old and obviously post menopausal. I had been on hrt for years which is why I was advised to come off them. Having read that article I’m wondering if I should go back and ask them to put me back on them. However now that I’ve come off them (maybe about 2 years ago) I doubt they’ll reinstate my script.

[shaws Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

They might not but there's no harm in requesting them.

[Mickeydooley in reply to shaws]

I can ask but I can guarantee I won’t get them again. My doctor is already not pleased that I insisted on a referral to an endo. He told me my levels have always been normal (on 75mcg levo for the last 15 years and still reporting hypo symptoms) and that he felt I needed counselling. When I saw the endo he sent a letter to my gp recommending that he prescribe t3/T4 and that I was a very knowledgeable patient with an excellent understanding of my condition! He won’t have been pleased and I’ve been avoiding him since!

[shaws Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

When we've had a huge struggle to be diagnosed (I diagnosed myself eventually. GP missed a TSH level of 95 and told me I had no problems) it makes us very angry indeed. After all we expect professionals to be 'professional' when interviewing and especially when prescribing. The fail to be aware that it is clinical symptoms that are to be relieved not get more through not being optimally treated.

The 'word' the professionals seem to love is 'normal' but that only refers to a print-out and dismissing our clinical symptoms and they know none anyway which they should be au fait with all of them.

[Mickeydooley in reply to shaws]

Should all post menopausal women be on hrt? That’s the impression I got from the article. Maybe I misunderstood. One of my issues is poor cognitive function and I’ve been particularly bad recently. Can’t find words for anything these days. I thought all my issues were to do with autoimmune thyroid disease but perhaps lack of other hormones plays a part too?

[shaws Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

Re your poor cognitive function, you should ask for (may not from the NHS) get a Free T3 and Free T4 Blood test. Both should be at optimum. If not our brain and heart cannot function as it should do as brain and heart have the most T3 receptor cells therefore the patient has to be a good conveter of levothyroxine into T3.

I've never been prescribed hrt and didn't have any problems other than undiagnosed hypo.

[Mickeydooley in reply to shaws]

My conversion wasn’t good but I’ve been monitored at an endo clinic for the last 6 months. FT3 level (on Combo T4/t3 treatment) is 62% through range and FT4 level about 32% through range. Endo won’t increase meds due to suppressed TSH. Good to know I don’t have to go back to gp to get hrt!

[shaws Administrator in reply to Mickeydooley]

The following is by a 'real' expert on hormones and read what he says about suppressed TSH.

hormonerestoration.com/