Bit of a curved ball....

[Romilly2]

My first post left me assuming that I had Hashimotos and low ferritin so would get some iron. However I went ahead with the GP requested blood test ( which I thought would be minimal thyroid function testing ) it seems she had ordered a more extensive testing and they called me today that she wanted further tests due to the results. I accessed my patient access account and saw that the tests showed

Thyroid peroxide Ab as 5 ( Range 0 - 24)

Free T3 5.2 ( Range 3.9 - 6.8 )

Free T4 18.4 ( Range 11 - 23 )

THS 0.19 ( Range 0.35 - 5) Classed as abnormal

Haemoglobin 111 ( Range 115- 165 ) classed as abnormal

Red blood count 3.52 ( Range 3.8 - 5.8 ) classed as abnormal

Red blood count 3.52 ( Range 3.8 - 5.8) classed as abnormal

Haematocrit 0.329 ( Range 0.370 - 0.47) classed as abnormal

Red blood cell distribution width 11.2% ( Range 11.8 - 14 ) classed as abnormal

Soooo it looks like my thyroid function is ok ? ( I still have hypothyroid symptoms and enlarged thyroid) or I’m going into a hyperthyroid phase of Hashimoto s??)

Also I’m anaemiac which would have similar symptoms to hypothyroidism?

Which is strange as I am mainly vegetarian but have loads of green veg and some meat, pulses, nuts etc.

I’m due for extra blood test in 10 days ( assume ferritin and B12) and a thyroid scan.

Meanwhile I’ve gone mad and bought liver pate and steak for dinner 😆

Any thoughts ??

Hope everyone has a sunny healthy weekend 😊

[greygoose]

My anti TPO was 5.7 ( Range 0 - 5.61)

If that range is correct, then the odds are you have Hashi's, but it hasn't made you hypo yet.

Why do you think you're going into a 'hyper' phase of Hashi's? Because of the low TSH? The TSH follows the levels of the Frees, it doesn't lead them. And your Frees are only around mid-range. Could be that you're coming out of a 'hyper' phase and the TSH hasn't yet caught up. Because it moves more slowly than the Frees.

As for the anemia, could be that you have low stomach acid, and are not digesting your food well enough for the iron to be absorbed. And, although many green veggies contain a lot of iron, it's not always possible for the human gut to absorb it - spinach, for example. Do you always eat a source of vit C when eating your iron-rich foods?

[Romilly2 in reply to greygoose]

Yes I’m still working out the relationship to Hashis ! Either hyper and still learning !I think I do have low stomach acids so am taking Betaine HCL, glutamine , cider apple vinegar in the morning and on the liver detox of the Protocol for Hashimoto s. So hopefully that will improve. I’m taking Vit c 1,000 with the iron. I realise these things take time . Brownie points at least to the GP who did more extensive testing than I gave her credit for 😁

[greygoose in reply to Romilly2]

Yes, well done her! Very unusual.

[Hidden]

I hope you enjoyed your pate and steak. You thyroid results do look reasonable but exactly where they need to be for you to feel really well will take time to establish. I woulnt be too concerned about low TSH as T4 and T3 well within range. I agree that a lot of your symptoms could be low iron and the sooner you get that up the better. Take your future B12 result with a pinch of salt if within the normal range as the tests is very unreliable. It is better assessed by symptoms and it is often low in hypothyroid people and is often low if not always in long term veggies. Vegitarians need to supplement it. Aneanmia is a symptom not a disease and your GP should be trying to get to the bottom of why it is happening. Poor absorption is a possibility and some vitamin C will help with that as well as some digestive enzymes. I use NOW super enzymes.

[Romilly2 in reply to Hidden]

Actually was very enjoyable but my vegan daughter and son in law would be mortified 😆Thankyou for the input! Yes I will keep up with the Vit C and see what happens with the iron supplement . I am so grateful for the informed and supportive input. It’s amazing how complex the body is, it’s a wonder it ever functions. I worked in healthcare for 40 years , latterly in cancer care , and ended up feeling that I would never know enough to answer all the questions. Knowledge is power but empathy and consideration for each other is always so important to how we all Feel. ( I may have also had a glass of wine to wash down the steak , for medicinal purposes😆, hence the slightly philosophical add on ! )

[JOLLYDOLLY]

Hi Romilly2,

Even if you have a healthy diet, you can still be iron anaemic. Have you spoken to your GP about these results?

Your Haemoglobin is very low. Have they checked you for diabetes? I would be surprised if you do not have a B12 deficiency and Pernicious anaemia as they have similar symptoms as thyroid and can walk hand in hand.

In the past I have had iron anaemia, although I do not now. I also have B12 deficiency, Pernicious anaemia and vitamin D deficiency as well as thyroid.

I hope the scan goes well and you get the other results.

Take care

[Romilly2 in reply to JOLLYDOLLY]

Hi Jollydolly, on my private blood test a few weeks ago my B12 was sky high ( 826 when over 300 is supposed to be sufficient) had been supplementing. My vit D was 82 ( sufficient over 50) and my HbA1C was good . I too thought maybe PA ( my mother and grandma had it ) My daughter and brother have Type 1 diabetes so I seem to be ok in those directions. I’ll wait to discuss with my GP after further bloods and thyroid scan next week . Meanwhile I’m doing the Hashimoto Protocol ( starting adrenal support phase now ) and have bought some slow release iron supplement .😊

[JOLLYDOLLY in reply to Romilly2]

Hi, B12 and PA run in our family as well. Not so much diabetes, only in distant relatives but we have a lot of thyroid conditions.

[Romilly2 in reply to JOLLYDOLLY]

The gene pool sometimes has its drawbacks 🤨

[bookish in reply to JOLLYDOLLY]

Sorry about late reply. Just wondered if you had noticed any improvement in thyroid function with proper B12 treatment? Been reading that low B12 affects hypothalamus and particularly pituitary so can wreck hormone signalling. I suspect I have methylation issues so probably had low B12 for years and now possibly PA, but wondered if the pituitary/thyroid issue might be at least partly reversible - maybe the damage has simply gone on too long. Best wishes

[JOLLYDOLLY in reply to bookish]

Hi bookish,

Your message came at a good time as sometimes I forget to read them.

In answer to your question, I think having the right doses of B12 came at the right time for me. The reason being, was that I had never had a problem with my thyroid condition even as a child (was born with it), always been on a similar dose right up to my early 30's. To cut a long story very short, My then ex gp decided that my dose was far too high and dramatically reduced it, it lead to all sorts of complications including dramatic weight gain and gyne problems, something I had never experienced and had been able to gain and lose weight like anyone with normal thyroid function.

By the time I was diagnosed with B12 deficiency, I was back to my original thyroid medication of 200 mcg T4 and also added 20 mcg of T3.

At the time of the B12 diagnosis, I was also iron anaemic (very heavy periods) as well as pernicious anaemia. It was actually my gyne, who confirmed that my thyroid was completely out of kilter and referred me to her colleague who was a Endocrinologist.

I also found out in the last five years that I have sleep apnoea, which a lot of people have with thyroid conditions.

I am slowly losing weight, but due to all the damage done previously it is a very slow process. It has affected my mobility, I have respiratory problems and oedema, as well, due to severe pneumonia (when the sleep apnoea was diagnosed)

When I am awake, I feel good bar the mobility and the negative comments I sometimes get. These conditions can cause havoc with our lives, but I do believe, if you have the right meds and or B12 jabs, we can live relatively normal lives without too many problems.

Has anyone in your family got either B12 deficiency and or thyroid? It runs in our family.

Please message me any time. But I would get your bloods rechecked for everything. You might have iron anaemia as well as B12 and Pernicious anaemia. Also unfortunately vitamin D deficiency. (I am greedy, I have the lot except iron deficiency now)

Take care

[bookish in reply to JOLLYDOLLY]

Hi Jollydolly, thank you so much for your reply. I'm sorry you've been through all that and I'm glad that things are improving for you, albeit slowly! Micki Rose has a bit in one of her books about healing that encourages me - "It may be that your body has done what it can do for now and may move forward again in a bit. Healing is often like that; it is rarely a linear thing. Remember your body has an innate healing ability, so keep giving it the right help and let it do its stuff in its own time. Pushing it will just stress you more. Be kind to yourself, let go of the worry and trust that your body will do what it can for you with a little prodding and direction from you when needed."

My thyroid function has been poor since a partial thyroidectomy 8 years ago. We have 5 generations of autoimmune and non on both sides of the family plus 3 known generations of PA or B12D. My iron has been dire for years (working on it, like the rest of it!) and my D, although not awful, wasn't good enough and now seems to be good. I use Nature's Answer. My B12 looks fine but have supplemented for years and I suspect MTHFR defect affecting methylation as symptoms are clearly getting worse. If my B12 had been a bit low for years because of poor methylation I wonder if the nitrous oxide anaesthetic inactivated it sufficiently to cause the autonomic nervous system changes, pituitary damage etc that has resulted in the low thyroid symptoms. I certainly started to feel a whole lot worse after the op. and had never had a general before. Low B12 can damage the pituitary membrane and can result in secondary hypo and adrenal insufficiency, I gather. All good fun! I have a hospital referral next week so will run the B12 thing past him. You take care too.

[JOLLYDOLLY in reply to bookish]

All the best with your appointment, please let me know how you got on. Take care

[bookish in reply to JOLLYDOLLY]

Will do, thank you! Cheers x

[JOLLYDOLLY]

Unfortunately it does sometimes Romilly2, Take care