Menopause

[shaws]

I thought it might be helpful to read about Menapause by a Hormone Expert and second half is about thyroid hormones that part I've posted previously:-

Extract from menopause:

Dear Women: Menopause is natural, but it is an endocrine catastrophe--the complete failure of your major sex-steroid producing gland. It is equivalent to a man losing his testes. Menopause is natural, but it is the result of an evolutionarycompromise. It prevents more pregnancies so that women can assure the survival of their existing children. Imagine the contrary--if women remained fertile their entire life! Your ovarian hormones were essential to your health and quality of life before menopause and they remain so after menopause. To maintain their health in menopause, women need only enough estradiol supplementation to give them the same estradiol levels as men! Ovarian hormone replacement is not dangerous--it is vital to your health and quality of life. What has been shown to be dangerous is the use of non-human hormone substitutes like Premarin and Provera (PremPro). Human bioidentical molecules, delivered by the correct route and in correct balance with other hormones provide all the natural benefits without the risks seen with non-human molecules. Transdermal estradiol does not increase the risks of blood clots and strokes like oral estrogen tablets do. Progesterone counteracts estradiol in the breasts and uterus, reduces proliferation in those tissues, and therefore the combination of estradiol and progesterone does not increase the growth of cancers in those organs. On the contrary, Provera and many other progesterone-substitutes (progestins) promote breast cancer. Testosterone restoration to youthful levels is beneficial for your mood, libido, energy and muscle strength and causes no health problems.

The second part is about hypothyroidism and it would be good if ALL doctor/specialists knew what he knows and treated patients too.

hormonerestoration.com/

[scorpiojo]

So I use a gel & a couple of tabs as I seemed to itch with the others (HRT)... What’s the best thing to use therefore? Funnily enough, after having a B12 jab, that I am having to fight for, I’d mentioned that these things all work together B12 levels... HRT & T3 .. Vit D & folate & I’m not right if they are messed with... The nurse giving the jab, & practice manager wouldn’t have it!!! I’m being sent back to the gastro consultant re the B12 jabs!!! It was my private blood test that highlighted my need for T3 & B12 etc.. That consultant just gave me Ranitidine!!! 😡 I’ll get Martyn Hooper to help if I get much more of it... I’d already sent in print outs... I see Khan in April & he’s sound re T3... Egos eh...

[vocalEK in reply to scorpiojo]

Excuse me? You have a B12 deficiency so they prescribed Ranitidine? Given what I just read, that's malpractice. To wit:

"Long-Term Effects

Prolonged treatment may lead to B12 malabsorption and subsequent vitamin B12 deficiency; degree of deficiency is dose-related and association stronger in females and younger in age (younger than 30 years)" rxlist.com/consumer_ranitid...

[scorpiojo in reply to vocalEK]

Ha! That’s what I’ll be saying to Jarvis the consultant as I am on contradicting meds, but the acid needed fixing... I was on another capsule lamparasail... (That’s not the spelling but it won’t stop changing it lol) ... But, I intend saying that if I have to resort to self injections (I do have the stuff) I’ll definitely sue if anything goes wrong... (easy for me to sort as in that game lol) ... I’m just sick of the treatment we seem to get!!! Not my fault that there’s too much demand on services... I’ve literally canvassed & case worked against numbers here - meaning things in all areas of life being crippled... I will update you, but as my post said, anything being altered has a domino effect & they at the GPs thought they knew best 🙄

[scorpiojo in reply to vocalEK]

I’m over 50... & I use the tabs of really really needed... Again, something I researched for myself re the B12 link.... But, there on their PC sits my prescriptions & at Boots... Not one s** has ever made that link... While insisting I have a blood test to see if I need the B12 jabs.... You can’t make this cr** up it’s so bad...

[Hidden]

I had hysterectomy 15 yrs ago (cancer) and was put on premarin until last year ago I requested a change I started having issues with it and made the switch to Estridol and been fine on this as well....all my mammograms have been normal.

[shaws in reply to Hidden]

I am glad Estridol suits you and all mammograms normal. It must be an axious time for you when they are due.

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

Remember the time before mammograms when we all learned to do our own monthly breast exams? Mammograms are a wonderful boon to women.

But the first time I went for a mammogram after my pacemaker implant (which is quite small and causes me no problems) the technician had trouble avoiding my pacemaker trying to squish me into the machine. I asked them to stop, talked to my doctor and said I wanted to go back to my own manual self exams.

He understood. So that's what I do now every month or so. I would love to be able to have the mammogram but I don't want inadvertent damage to my battery or lead.

Probably she was just trying to do her job and get the test done but my anxiety was through the roof. So for me back to the old days.

[vocalEK in reply to Hidden]

You do know where the brand name Premarin came from, don't you. From Snopes:

Claim: The drug Premarin is produced from the urine of pregnant horses.

Status: True.

[scorpiojo in reply to vocalEK]

Ewww some things I’m glad I’m ignorant about 😳

[Hidden in reply to vocalEK]

I'll second that fact: PREgnant MARes urINe = PREMARIN. Kind of yucky when you think about it.

[maro]

Thanks shaws. Very interesting. I was always scared of HRT but after much research after feeling rubbish for 2/3 years I’m now on bio identical hormones from NHS. Utrogestan tablets and oestrogen gel. It is a national disgrace how menopausal women are being treated , such as being fobbed off with anti depressants. If your GP is unhelpful as they know as much about the menopause as they do thyroid issues...precious little. Please ask to be referred to a menopause clinic as is your right .

[shaws in reply to maro]

Thankfully I am now of an 'age' and past menapause The info will be useful for those approaching it or suffering at present.

[rachelleigh73 in reply to maro]

My gp looked bemused when I asked about bio-identical HRT and suggested I make an appointment with family planning. I thought I would get the same reaction from them so haven't followed this up. Are there menopause clinics in the UK that my GP can refer me to? Thanks Maro - really appreciate you posting this!

[Hidden in reply to rachelleigh73]

I asked for bio identical hrt and she didn't know what I was talking about until I actually said micronised progesterone and transdermal estrodial gel. And she didn't want me to have it and I don't know why. I got it from the grumpy 🐄 in the end.

[rachelleigh73 in reply to Hidden]

Well done Josie - and thanks for the info...

[shaws in reply to Hidden]

So we all have to learn a 'new language' in order to tell the doctors/specialists what we really would like to try. You'd think they'd prescribe according to our symptoms - like they did in the past when a hypothyroid patient was prescribed according to our symptoms but the 'modern' method is according to a blood test result.

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

And often have to develop a set of brass %#$@& to get what we need from the doctors.😡 irina

[Hidden in reply to shaws]

Yes you are right. All's they look at is a blood test reference range and if you fall into any place in that reference range that they consider normal then you're out the door. My doctor's never ask how I am feeling as long as I'm in "range" he doesn't want to hear my voice. I don't go anymore, it's so uncomfortable to be treated like this. Like cattle.

[maro in reply to rachelleigh73]

So sorry for late reply. Yes if you don’t get any joy from G.P as a lot of them are not very helpful re menopause (makes you wonder what they are good at!!) Just ask to be referred to a menopause clinic. I got referred to my local hospital in Birmingham, they weren’t great to be honest but I was armed with info so I knew what to ask for, Utrogestan is a bioidentical progesterone and also transdermal estradiol, I’m hoping to get testosterone gel on my next visit. My sister in law asked to be referred to the Chelsea and Westminster in London which Your G.P can and should do, they are fantastic they do bloods, pelvic scans, alternative therapies plus prescribe bio hormones all on NHS. I had already had my appointment otherwise I would have definitely asked to go there. Look up Chelsea and Westminster menopause on line they even tell you what your GP needs to make a referral...show him or her. Do not accept a diagnosis of depression!!

[rachelleigh73 in reply to maro]

Brilliant info maro - thank you so much for sharing this - I'm very grateful 😊

[maro in reply to rachelleigh73]

You’re more than welcome👍🙂

[annnsandell]

Excellent.

[maro]

Yes sorry shaws I meant it for everyone, probably should have just commented rather than reply . Blame the meno brain fog lol.

[shaws in reply to maro]

Don't worry members will have also read your comment too if they look at the post.

[JadisFox]

Thank you for this article - it was very informative

[rachelleigh73]

Thank you Shaws - looking forward to reading the link you posted in the hope of finding something that helps ...

[Hidden]

I'm not 100% that I'm in my menopause as it's too soon to call, but I think so. Assuming it is, so far menopause is AWESOME. And if I'm not yet there, perimenopause is awesome.

Oh my goodness, none of that rollercoaster of ups and downs every month, I feel completely stable. I continue to very slowly (years) taper off my SSRI and my mental health is better than in years. I'm having a few hot flushes but it's a fine trade off. Wish it had happened a decade ago.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Menopause. wasn't bad. I just kept a desk fan going 24/7 at work and home even in winter!🐱

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

LOL. I live in a hot climate, so when it's 40C it's just horrible regardless. I do love my ceiling fans! Winter is approaching and I didn't need them much last winter.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi S. I took Prozac (SSRI) for years and finally tapered myself off. I don't think it really helped much.

I remember when SSRI's first came out. The big 3: Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft! They were touted as such an advance and were thought to be such a miracle cure for depression.

We now know they not only cause problems but worsen others (Restless legs comes to mind.) But doctors-not so much psychiatrists but GP's, gynecologists, and sometimes Endos are still prescribing them when they don't know what else to offer. Or dismiss complaints of depression from undertreated thyroids as just garden variety and throw a Prozac prescription our way.

I'm happy you are getting off. And don't hurry. There is a certain amount of uncomfortable withdrawal some people experience. xx irina

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Irina

I'm taking, literally, years. I'm over 4 years now and I think there's 2 years to go. There are sometimes uncomfortable symptoms, but I have to work/parent/function so I'm going slowly enough to be able to do all that.

I did a rapid taper (5? months) off another one and it was slow enough to not get the zaps etc though it was a rough ride. It was also not a slow enough taper, from what I can tell, for my brain to ramp up what the drugs had slowed down etc. It seems very common to do what I did, have a couple of months of feeling ok and then a nasty crash, and back on an SSRI again. I describe it like the brain has enough reserves of whatever drug it is for a little while and then it is depleted but frustratingly there is no research into it.

This time I've found a knowledgeable online community and am broadly following their guidelines though I'm so frightened by my previous experience that I'm actually going slower. They advise about one drop in dose a month of 10% of the previous dose and find that most (not all) people can cope with that.

Also, yes, I suspect my initially undiagnosed and then probably undertreated hypothyroidism is probably the root cause. I'm treated at a higher dose now, and menopause ;), and feeling really stable so hopefully if I can keep going as I am I'll be off permanently.

[shaws in reply to Hidden]

I really feel for those people who are prescribed medication which may harm them or that doesn't have the effect they expect. You certainly don't expect that from a prescription medication. We are all different and can have affects which aren't explained or understood by doctors.

[Hidden]

Thanks shaws. I believe anyone who is prescribed hormones for menopause or for any reason should also have a thyroid work up fairly soon after. All our hormones - thyroid, adrenal, and sex - work together and need to be in balance with each other. When hormones of one kind are prescribed it's easy for the other 2 to get out of sync and cause us problems.

And anyone who no longer has their tonsils, adenoids, or appendix has a greater chance of symptomatic imbalances. Items many doctors thought were superfluous years ago and have discovered they were mistaken.

I also believe-my own theory- and one dismissed by a doctor who I no longer see is that how often problems are set up before we reach menopause by years of birth control pills. Like we are starting our HRT with one strike already against us. And how years of BC pills when we're young might have set us up to have thyroid imbalances down the road.

I remember when BC pills were developed. Everyone-doctors and patients- thought we had found the Holy Grail and prescriptions were given out like free candy.

I believe if we have a gynecologist prescribing we should also be evaluated by an endo. Just another example of specialists looking after their own part of the body without considering how their treatment may be affecting our other systems.

Just a thought! irina

[maro in reply to Hidden]

Interesting irina, i had my tonsils out aged 6, was also on BC pills for 10 years. We didnt know in the 70s or werent informed of the trouble it could cause in the future. I was also on steroids as a child for 8 yearss to control asthma. No wonder i dont feel so great. Thanks for info.

[Hidden in reply to maro]

And I think there are many of us are still dealing with problems from early years filled with well meant 'miracle drugs."

[rachelleigh73 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for sharing irina - this chimes with a lot of my thinking. I thought a lot of my problems started when I came off of birth control pills. The more I read the more I feel they weren't the benign fix I had thought, and that they have almost certainly contributed to my menopause/thyroid issues now.

[Hidden in reply to rachelleigh73]

I believe this. They are after all hormones and by taking them helped our other hormones (thyroid, adrenal function) slowly get out of balance over the years.

I don't think many, if any doctors, would admit to this. But it would be interesting to take a survey of: 1) how many female thyroid patients took BC pills and 2) what percentage of people with thyroid problems are female. I'll bet the ratio of female to male patients would be off the chart.

Just my opinion. Many of us who took them did so for years. I got a blood clot in my leg and had to stop. So then I got an IUD which I believe contributed to uterine cancer I got in 1999.

Happy that is all behind me now. I'm 75 and if I get pregnant somebody better look for another star in the east!!! irina

[shaws in reply to Hidden]

Yes - I do agree with you.

[Hidden]

Great info, thanks for posting this!

[Biddy51]

Having low oestrogen played havoc with my immune system! Thanks for posting this. The menopause for some is bad enough without having Hashimoto’s.

[shaws in reply to Biddy51]

It certainly is.