which vit + minerals + how much

[bunnybaby]

hi

i already take vit d b12 folate as low in all these ..there are other vitamins and minerals to take with an underactive thyroid... but which ones and how much of each please finding it really confusing .... can anyone help me please ....thanks x

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Bunnybaby

To know what supplements you need and what dose, you'll need to post your results, with reference ranges. Why not post what you already take and the levels when tested?

Normally we suggest

Vit D

B12

Folate

Ferritin

And if ferritin is low

Iron panel

Full blood count

General supplements which help are

Vit C - adrenal support - minimum 2000mg daily in divided doses

Selenium - helps conversion of T4 to T3 and helps lower antibodies in autoimmune thyroid disease. Some people prefer to test before supplementing

[bunnybaby in reply to SeasideSusie]

thank you i know what to take for my vit d and folate and b12 as i was deficient in these but as i have been reading on here past 2 days the b12 should be nearer 1000 my last one was nearly 500 i take jarrow b12 1000 specially as i am now suffering badly with vertigo these days...its the others i wanted more info as i dont convert properly and give up trying to get t3 from the doc my blood count is fine to

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to bunnybaby]

Do you want to post your levels and what you are taking, so that we can see if you are taking enough, and if you are taking the cofactors needed.

What 'others' do you want information on? Conversion can be impaired if vitamin and mineral levels aren't optimal. Also, FT4 and FT3 tested together can tell us how well you convert. And we need to see TSH level and know how much thyroid meds to are taking to see if you are optimally medicated

If you post all your thyroid and vitamin/mineral results we can help, please include reference ranges.

[bunnybaby in reply to SeasideSusie]

i am on 100 levo one day and 125 next day last results are

serum tsh level 3.88miu/l (0.25-5.0)

serum free triiodothyronine level ... below range 2.7pmol/l (3.50-6.5)

serum free t4 level 12.5pmol/l (9.0 -23.0)

when i was taking 125 everyday tsh went above 5.0 so doc had panic about it and suggested alternate days..

the others i wanted info was other vitamins + minerals the thyroid uk website tells you to take like magnesium selenium k2 as i already take vitamin d3 and b12 and folate as i have had help with these before and know what to take .. except should my b12 be more 1000 instead of below 500 .. the vertigo is ruining my life and i am trying anything i can to get rid of it i have had it for nearly 2 years (vertigo) they just give me pills for it.. betahistine

thanks x

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to bunnybaby]

bunnybaby

i am on 100 levo one day and 125 next day

TSH: 3.88miu/l (0.25-5.0)

FT3: below range 2.7pmol/l (3.50-6.5)

FT4: 12.5pmol/l (9.0 -23.0)

You are very undermedicated. The aim of a treated hypo patient generally is for TSH to be 1 or below or wherever it needs to be for FT4 and FT3 to be in the upper part of their respective reference ranges when on Levo, if that is where you feel well.

when i was taking 125 everyday tsh went above 5.0 so doc had panic about it and suggested alternate days..

Why did your doctor panic about your TSH going above 5? That means you are undermedicated, your FT4 and FT3 would most likely have been even lower than they were in the above results. Your doctor should have increased your Levo, not reduced it. I'm not sure your doctor understands how to treat hypothyroidism.

Have you had thyroid antibodies tested? There are two types - Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) and Thyroglobulin (TG). You can be negative for TPO but positive for TG so it's important to get TG tested if TPO comes back negative. The fact that your TSH is lower on 100/125mcg than it was on 125mcg daily suggests that autoimmune thyroid disease (positive antibodies) may be a possibility.

So the first thing you need to do is get an increase in your Levo and get your TSH down to around 1 and your free Ts in the upper part of their ranges. And get your antibodies tested.

**

Looking at your profile, you last posted your vitamin results was 4 years ago. You really need to retest them, get your current levels and see if your current dose of supplement is correct.

Your vertigo may (or may not) be due to low B12, therefore you need to test it. I have read (but not researched so don't have links) that BCSH, UKNEQAS and NICE guidelines recommend:

"In the presence of discordance between test results and strong clinical features of deficiency, treatment should not be delayed to avoid neurological impairment."

Besides the vertigo, check for signs of B12 deficiency here b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

And an extract from the book, "Could it be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok:

"We believe that the 'normal' serum B12 threshold needs to be raised from 200 pg/ml to at least 450 pg/ml because deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebrospinal fluid below 550".

"For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."

As you are taking B12, are you also taking a B Complex, that is needed to balance ALL the B vitamins. You should take a decent one containing methylfolate (eg Thorne Basic B) and there will be no need to take a separate folate supplement.

B Complex is one of the recommended supplements for us Hypos. It is in the list on the ThyroidUK website.

Do you take your betahistine at least 2 hours away from your Levo?

**

As you are taking D3, you should be retesting twice a year (fingerprick blood spot test £28 with vitamindtest.org.uk/ ) as GP unlikely to do it due to expense). Vit D needs to be 100-150nmol/L according to the Vit D Council. As D3 is fat soluble, any excess is stored, so it's important that it doesn't reach toxicity level, hence the need to retest.

There are important cofactors also needed whe taking D3 vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds. The normal amount of K2-MK7 is 90-100mcg.

Check out the other cofactors. You can test for zinc, it should be about half way through range.

**

Selenium - I mentioned this above. Selenium l-selenomethionine is the best form to take, or a selenium yeast, both are better absorbed than selenite or selenate forms. 200mcg is a good amount, although some people prefer to test before taking selenium. As mentioned, it helps conversion of T4 to T3 and can help reduce thyroid antibodies when present.

**

This covers everything mentioned on ThyroidUK website apart from Calcium, and that should only be supplemented if there is a known deficiency.

**

Have you had ferritin tested? That is very important, and needs to be at least 70 for thyroid hormone to work, recommended is half way through range.

[bunnybaby in reply to SeasideSusie]

thank you again

i have been tested for b12 and vitd in may time bt b12 was up to nearly 500 (lost paperwork) doctor said highest ever been... and my vit d was around 50 dropped from 54 so just told to keep taking them.

i have been tested for anti bodies before they where high think i posted on here.

i been taking betahistine same time as levo will change this.

i now have high cholesterol and take that pill at night now.

been tested for glutton ..results normal as my doc spoke to an endo (might add different doc) as he nearly put me on t3 till he see how much it cost ..and said i needed to be tested for this first...

i need to go back to the doctors about all this..nightmare getting appointment ..

yeast dont agree with me so thought would try the Selenium slow dragon recommended..

and will get full blood works done again will up my levo myself..if there is anything else i should ask for can you let me know please

thanks x

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to bunnybaby]

bunnybaby

From your post 4 years ago

thyroid peroxidase antibody level 383 iu/ml[<100] outside range

So that confirms autoimmune thyroiditis aka Hashimoto's which is where antibodies attack the thyroid and gradually destroy it. The antibody attacks cause fluctuations in symptoms and test results.

Most doctors dismiss antibodies as being of no importance and know little or nothing about Hashi's and how it affects the patient, test results and symptoms. You need to read, learn, understand and help yourself where Hashi's is concerned.

You can help reduce the antibodies by adopting a strict gluten free diet which has helped many members here. Gluten contains gliadin (a protein) which is thought to trigger autoimmune attacks so eliminating gluten can help reduce these attacks. You don't need to be gluten sensitive or have Coeliac disease for a gluten free diet to help.

Supplementing with selenium l-selenomethionine 200mcg daily can also help reduce the antibodies, as can keeping TSH suppressed.

Gluten/thyroid connection: chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

stopthethyroidmadness.com/h...

stopthethyroidmadness.com/h...

hypothyroidmom.com/hashimot...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

Hashi's and gut absorption problems tend to go hand in hand and can very often result in low nutrient levels or deficiencies. Thyroid hormone can't work properly unless nutrient levels are optimal, and Hashi's trashes nutrient levels, so it all needs addressing. We need to know your current nutrient levels so it's now very important that you get your vitamins and minerals tested and we can see what dose of supplements you might need to get your levels optimal.

[bunnybaby in reply to SeasideSusie]

thank you i will do more reading about hashi and go back and get blood tests done.

shall i still up my levo? before tests

i

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to bunnybaby]

bunnybaby

If you're going to have thyroid function tests done then don't increase your Levo until you have the result of the new tests.

If you're just having vitamins and minerals tested then dose of Levo has nothing to do with those so you could increase now.

[bunnybaby in reply to SeasideSusie]

thank you x

[SlowDragon Administrator]

You need to test ferritin and if result is low, a full iron panel

See if GP will test, they should

Selenium supplements can help improve conversion. Lots of different brands. Everyone probably has their own favourites. I prefer Solgar vitamin E with selenium

How much vitamin D are you taking? Recommended to also take magnesium and vitamin K2 (Mk7)

Magnesium, lots of different types available.

Vitamin C, perhaps with zinc

[bunnybaby in reply to SlowDragon]

thank you ..i have just ordered some magnesium malate ... i take solgar vit d 1000 iu been a bit lapse lately as i was deficient and got it back upto range 50 with pills from doc and i take zinc i will add the solgar vit E with selenium...do you take k2 and which one please xx

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to bunnybaby]

Are you in UK? If so vitamin D really needs to be up at around 100nmol

(Different units in USA or EU)

Very many with thyroid issues, especially if it's Hashimoto's, need more than 1000iu daily

Better You vitamin D mouth spray avoids gut issues. Comes in various strengths. To increase from 50nmol to 100nmol, especially as its winter, you may need 3000iu or even 5000iu daily for month or so. Then very likely to need on going maintenance dose of 1000iu-2000iu

Testing twice yearly, especially while you work out by trial and error what dose you need. Everyone is different.

Must not take too much, as it's oil based and toxic in excess.

Vitamindtest.org.uk postal kit £28

Vitamin K2 (mk7) - last lot I got I wouldn't recommend

Previous were Solgar. Both this and Solgar selenium are large capsules with powder in. I open up and tip powder out and take it that way, as like many with thyroid issues I now find swallowing large pills tricky

[bunnybaby in reply to SlowDragon]

thank you i am in th uk... i had solgar k2 before are they ok ? i know seasidesusie said i might have hashi..but i asked my doctor ages ago and he said no but i dont think this doc knows anything... thanks for all your help will look into the testing kit x