Supplimenting Vit B12 and Folate - how much?

[GrowingVeg]

Hello,My recent blood test shows:

Ferritin 107ug/l (30-250)

B12 377ng/l (200-900)

Folate 4.7ug/l (3-20.50)

(they forgot to test for Thyroid, so I have got to book in again for that...)

I have checked previous messages and think that my Folate is low and B12 could be improved.

There are supplements at loads of different strengths, I'm just wondering what's a good strength to take?

I currently take a good Vit B complex, (Thorne basic b, or the newer one that was recommended on here recently) I eat well, green veg, black pudding and liver, I just can't seem to sustain these levels long term.

[GlowCoach Administrator]

Are these your levels when you have been taking a good B complex or have you stopped for. while?

Thorne Basic B is a good one or the alternatives that we suggest in this group. Sometimes people need a little more B12 or folate depending on their diet or genetics.

Once you have got your levels to a good place you will need to continue taking the supplements that got you there. The poor absorption that we get from being hypo means that even the best of diets won't be enough for our vitamin levels.

Do you have a vit D result too?

[GrowingVeg in reply to GlowCoach]

Yep, these are while regularly suppliplimenting with good complex. I need to rebook for Vit D.

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to GrowingVeg]

Then your levels are far too low, both B12 & folate and you need to up your supplementing.

SlowDragon has also replied with details but a 1,000iu B12 sublingual and a 4,000iu methylfolate will help.

On the plus side your ferritin is looking great.

NHS easy postal kit vitamin D test £31 via

vitamindtest.org.uk

[GrowingVeg in reply to GlowCoach]

Thanks Jaydee, I really need to learn more about how these vitamins work and what they do, it's really interesting. For example what is the difference between Ferratin and b12/folate, and why do we not test other b vitamins and what's the interaction between Vit D and other vitamin absorption levels! So many questions. Thanks for the link to easy Vit D test!

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to GrowingVeg]

Vitamin B12, folate, and ferritin are vital for the development of the nervous system, blood formation, and diverse metabolic functions.

If you are low in any of those then you can get anaemic amongst a myriad of other symptoms.

We also need OPTIMAL levels of key vitamins for our thyroid hormone to work well.

Ferritin is the storage form of iron.

I suspect that its the most commonly low vitamins that get tested. A B complex is suggested to be taken to help all B vitamin levels.

[Poppy_Ann]

It looks like all of your levels are within recommended levels so why do you want to do something to change them, for me the only thing I take is vitamin D3 4000iu which I take as my body cannot manage to make its own along with Thyroxine plus all of my pain meds which means I have 9 tablets in a morning and 10 before bed unless my back or joints are bad then I add an extra 4 at lunch time, I hate taking tablets if it was not for all of the pain I would stop them all except for the vitamin D and the Thyroxine which without my energy level would be so low I could not be bothered even getting out of bed I do not know why people want to take medication on a long term basis the only reason I take almost all of my medication is for pain relief due to my back getting damaged whilst in the army which compressed my body forcing my hands on to my shoulders pushing my head to the side damaging my neck, with my hands forced onto my shoulders it passed the load onto my shoulders then onto my spine to my hips then down my legs damaging most of my joints so any tablets I don't need to live I don't take and do not understand why people take most of the tablets they do.

[waveylines in reply to Poppy_Ann]

Poppy Ann being in range on blood tests does not mean optimal. Often the ranges are very wide. This is true for the thyroid hormones, vitamins, minerals folate and ferritin. I don't think anyone wants to take a lot of tablets but some people have to to bring their levels up.

[greygoose in reply to Poppy_Ann]

Her levels may be within the ranges, but the levels are still too low. There's a hell of a lot of difference between 'in-range' and 'optimal'. And sub-optimal levels can cause a lot of symptoms and pain. Your pain may be due to damage done to your body, but a lot of people suffer pain due to low nutrients.

B12 : this should be at least over 550. When my level was the same as hers I was suffering from neuropathy in the legs, was losing the use of my right arm, and had difficulty keeping my head still on my neck! It kept wobbling around. I don't know what the OP's symptoms are but with a level like hers she risks permanent neurological damage. Doctors just do not understand the implications of low B12.

Folate should be at least over mid-range for optimal health.

None of us like taking tablets, I don't imagine, but sometimes it's unavoidable if you want to be well. We don't take them for fun, you know!

[Britpol in reply to Poppy_Ann]

You take an incredible amount of pain killers; there are alternatives: supplements such as turmeric+gold which is a patented Cambridge product, physio-prescribed exercises ( find a good physio), mindfulness and relaxation ( find good books and research on internet), aloe Vera gels, magnesium citrate or glycinate tablets that help relax muscles , camomile tea at bed time, and so on.. Put together, they a natural solution. and much better for you. Sounds complicated but you soon establish a routine and be rewarded with a much happier life. Good luck!

[mstp in reply to Poppy_Ann]

Poppy_Ann you need to take K2 along with D3 to ensure the D3 goes to your bones and not your arteries.

[greygoose in reply to mstp]

Actually, the reason for taking K2 is that taking vit d increases absorption of calcium. And it's the calcium that needs to go into the bones and teeth, and not the arteries.

[mstp in reply to greygoose]

Thanks Greygoose. I know I should combine the two but always forget why!

[GrowingVeg]

Thank you, yes I too initially thought they were ok results as in range. Then I read back into the notes from when I was first diagnosed, when I was recommended to read "could it be B12" by Sally M. Pacholok. Poppy_Anne I am sorry to hear about your back pain. It must be awful living with that. I too hate taking tablets. I had to step down from my role as a manager in education when I was first diagnosed as Hypo, it's taken me ages to get my Levo right, but now I only work 2 days a week teaching as I just can't sustain any more than that. It's rubbish! I got my levels checked as I get horrible headaches every couple of weeks lasting 2-3 days. I am also exploring acupuncture to help my pain, energy and mood.

[GrowingVeg]

Can anyone help with recommended dose levels? There seem to be such a wide range...

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to GrowingVeg]

Seems you aren't absorbing it well via your stomach like me, I get on better with sublingual, Nature Provides is an effective one and being a liquid you can vary the dose easily, I started with the full 3000mcg daily for a month and now just top up a couple of times a week.

400ug of methyl folate is 200% NRV Biocare do a liquid one, same pattern, start the B12 for a week before the folate 🤗

I still take the B complex too

[GrowingVeg in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you that's really helpful. And i didn't know about starting the b12 before the folate!

[samaja in reply to GrowingVeg]

To be honest, if you are not absorbing well orally and your levels were that low even with taking B complex (of which you need to be completely free as well as of any B fortifed foods or drinks for at lest 4 MONTHS to have a reliable result) you should be on B12 injections which start with a loading dose for a week or two (every other day) and then depending on whether you have neural involvement (neuropathy, cognitive impairment etc) you continue on the same EOD dose till the symptoms improve. If you are not accessing you B12 from food with a good diet you have, no oral or sublingual or transdermal supplements will be of much use becuase you can absorb maybe 1% ! of these which is not enough for the nervous system or anything else ot heal. Folate should be taken at 5 mcg for 4 months and then retested to check levels which should be in high teens at least and you do not wait to start it after B12 because B12 cannot work without folate. With malabsorption, all oral supplements do is push the serum levels higher without going into your cells and doctors think you are ok while they should be investigating what is causing B12 deficiency. Have you been investigated for Pernicious Anaemia and had a full iron panel and FBC? Sally Pacholok's book excellent but if you want more hands on approach to B12 and possibly treat yourself because there is very slim chance any doctor will want to treat you with the current levels, please join the Pernicious anameia/B12 Deficiency Support Group on FB.

[SlowDragon Ambassador]

Are you vegetarian or vegan?

Low B12 symptoms

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

methyl-life.com/blogs/defic...

With serum B12 result below 500, (Or active B12 below 70) recommended to be taking a separate B12 supplement as well as vitamin B Complex 

Then once your serum B12 is over 500 (or Active B12 level has reached 70), you may be able to reduce then stop the B12 and just carry on with the B Complex.

If Vegetarian or vegan likely to need ongoing separate B12 few times a week

Highly effective B12 drops

natureprovides.com/products...

Or

B12 sublingual lozenges

uk.iherb.com/pr/jarrow-form...

cytoplan.co.uk/shop-by-prod...

B12 range in U.K. is too wide

Interesting that in this research B12 below 400 is considered inadequate

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

B vitamins best taken after breakfast

How long before test did you stop vitamin B complex

In week before blood test, when you stop vitamin B complex, you need to take a separate folate supplement (eg Jarrow methyl folate 400mcg) and continue separate B12 until over 500

[GrowingVeg]

Thank for your thoughtful response, I am not vegan or vegetarian. I eat quality meat regularly, and love a bit black pudding and lambs liver when I can... I stopped the b complex 7 days before the blood test.

Can I take b vitamins after breakfast if I take my levo before breakfast, or should I leave 4 hours?

Also, I am wondering how quickly b12 / folate levels change. Is it days, weeks, months?

Thanks again, I will have a good read of the links.

[Spritze in reply to GrowingVeg]

Also, I am wondering how quickly b12 / folate levels change. Is it days, weeks, months?

I am really interested in this too, with regard to all supplements, so if you find any evidence please, please tag me - I am struggling to research it !

[GlowCoach Administrator in reply to Spritze]

Thats probably a quite individual thing depending on absorption, diet, genetics etc

Hypo people need to supplement continuously to maintain optimal vitamin levels.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Spritze]

For example I took a loading dose of both and within 8 weeks I was top of the range, who knows maybe I hit it by 4 weeks 🤷‍♀️ but I tested at 8, being high on either isn't a biggy short term... if you use the right stuff for your system it shouldn't be too long 🤗

[serenfach]

B12 is water soluble, so any excess is just wee'd out, but it can make for expensive wee! It can take a while if taking B12, up to 6 months I was told.