I am on ndt nature throid....my last tsh was .5 and my ft4 ft3 both were normal low but dr wouldn't increase meds due to low tsh. I have another apt in two weeks. But since my last visit which she also started estradiol bec of low estrogen and vag dryness etc and she gave me progesterone 80mg twice a day...both at pretty high doses...in weeks I became very lethargic , tired, exhausted , and fatigued like I had the flu. At first I said, this must be sinuses or something since it is spring but then I got sore breast and realized...I must be estrogen dominant...I was also taking maca go maca ......so I stopped the estrogen and continued the progesterone......MY QUESTION....if anyone can relate..i am post menopausal and although I sleep well....I am tired, feeling breathless, almost like I have mono.......is this my thyroid being under medicated....and how do I get more meds to take...can someone send me some info by private message and or tell me if this sounds similar to what you have gone through....THANK YOU IN ADVANCE...
I just feel lightheaded like I really don't want to drive anywhere or leave the house but the room isn't spinning yet one Saturday morning it did spin for about a minute but not sense then. That was when I said no more estrogen....assuming it was high estrogen....bec my breast were tender at the same time and have been for several days now but less and less each day slightly
THE weird thing is...I am on 1.5 g of ndt and I used to be on synthroid 100mg but I had low normal ft3 ft4 with that too and ok tsh.....between 1-2. and I don't have any antibodies and have been tested biannually for the last 7 years....
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When taking NDT, I have read it is advised to begin on a dose (either a straight switchover to equivalent if you were already on levo) and then after about two weeks you raise a small amount until you have relief of clinical symptoms. I shall give you a link which may be helpful.
I don't know anything about the other medications you are taking, so hopefully some member will respond.
First thing my new endo said ehen reading my notes-when on NDT your TSH will be suppressed and could even be zero, your FT4 could fall as far as half way in range if your body is happy with the T3 and the FT3 should be high in the range so looking at your results it is screaming that you are under medicated. How to persuade your doctor though is another problem sadly.
I'm sure it's documented in STTM book. There must be other places, is there a PIL (patient information leaflet) in with the medication and does that say anything about getting the correct dose otherwise I can only suggest to search the Internet though that. Ould make your doctor run a mile!
First question would be is the progesterone natural or are you on a progestin? If its not natural it will block your thyroid hormone production as will the estrogen you are on. Im 59 and went through years of problems with my hormones. Never had a hot flush but the bleeding was terrible due to low thyroid. If you have stopped the estrogen that is a good thing. I finally discovered my whole problem was lack of vitamin d. When we go through menopause and our ovaries shut down our adrenals should take over and produce the progesterone we need to keep us going but without vitamin d this doesnt happen so progesterone becomes too low and we get headaches, high blood pressure etc. The other problem is if we are stressed the adrenals steal the progesterone we have to make cortisol. So its a terrible viscious circle because the thyroid also needs progesterone to produce t4 to convert to t3. So bottom line ditch the estrogen, use bioidentical progesterone and up your ndt to raise your t3 or are you taking selenium? Selenium will help you convert t4 to t3. Its a complicated puzzle and we are all different you have to continue searching till u find your missing piece. Dont forget to check your vit d xx
yes I am taking bio identical estradiol and progesterone....and I do take d3 with k2 but I totally agree with this vicious cycle....hard to manage with thyroid issues..and the last time the dr tested I was high in selenium and vitamin a so I have been off multi vitamins for 5 mths...but taking fish oil q10 d3k2, and feel like I am low in iron...when I pull down my eyelids they are not red like they are suppose to be....I am 56
Umm low iron, it's possible your high on copper, as they work together with zinc.
Another reason your FT4/3 could be low is you could have adrenal fatigue, things the adrenals need are Amino Acids, vitamin C, and a B Complex. Odds are also your GH (growth hormone) is rock bottom too, this also. Needs amino acids.
Most everyone I've asked that have been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue have low GH Inc myself. Leading me to believe (right or wrong) that adrenal fatigue is low GH ie low amino acids.
When I added amino acids my thyroid stabilized crashes and falling asleep about three in the afternoon went, so did 90% of my fatigue, the rest I put down to not being active for over three years. Not looking forward to trying to get fit again, all those pain barriers to go back through... Hope this helps, in addition to the other posts...
Take multiple really the first one that helped was Super HGH XL from Amazon then added some bulk powders to build the stores back up.
But the Super HGH convinced me adrenal. Problems are amino acid deficiencies, reason is in about a week crashes and fatigue was greatly improved and hair loss reduced to 4-10 strands a day nice
I will definitely look into that since hair loss is why they are increasing hormones....and it did help but I rather have something more natural...even looked into ---maca go---for natural hormones balancing..THANK YOU!!! I did test elevated on saliva test with cortisol....and it was bouncing around borderline so I know that could definitely help...
Progesterone can block thyroid receptors, I'd be looking to understand why you are being given so much. FTPO sex hormones can provide sensible advice on dosing (see files). I agree with others, if you are symptomatic then you need more meds
it's more likely to be the progesterone that was causing the breast tenderness and tiredness,similar to the symptoms you get the week before your period (when you had them) when the progesterone rises. When your estrogen is higher you feel better with more energy and better mood.
I was on estrogen patches and had a Mirena coil for the progesterone,I was fine on this but after 4 years the progesterone in the coil started running out and the doctor gave me progesterone tablets,which were a higher dose than coming from the coil.I was ill with these,bad headaches,depressed,and had to stop them.I then tried a combined patch,but this wasn't any good either,bad migraines, feeling dizzy all the time.I thought that this couldn't be causing the dizziness, but it was because when I stopped the patches it went away.
So I decided to stop the HRT altogether,and apart from hot flushes everything else has settled down,so I will put up with them!
glad you told me this...bec it sounds familiar,,,,i was fine but dr said I had low estrogen so she needed to change the balance from 80/20 to 50/50 estriol and estradiol and increase progesterone as well....within a week...I was so tired I couldn't function and in a month everything came to a head with the dizzy epsisode...I have always heard not to stop bhrt abruptly but I waited a week and ran test.....my iron, b12, d3, everything is great...by thyroid tsh rose to on 1.5 grains
tsh 1.28 (.45-4.5)
ft3 2.3 (2.-4.4)
ft4 .83 (.82-1.77)
so I was also wondering if I needed to go 2 grains..i have for several days but still the dizzy lightheaded drunk feeling....
cut the bhrt down to 25% of what I was taking and still having that drunk feeling...
tried just progesterone and that same feeling...and doing it b4 bed only...
and I have a dr apt tues and dr rushes so I am wondering ...where to even start....and how in the world will she go from here...who knows.....very disappointed that she changed the ratio and increased the dosage hence I have always heard best to change one thing at a time with hormones...
and frankly I went to her bec of hair loss issues....that has gotten somewhat better bec of NDT I think but she has kept me slightly undermedicated by going by my tsh and ignoring ft3 ft4 .......
I have never had dizziness or any problems with bhrt in the past in the last 10 years...always been on a low dose....this dazed feeling is scary
Are you still taking progesterone tabs? 80 mg twice per day is a pretty large dose. Before menopause, our bodies produce between 10 - 20 mgs of progesterone per day, starting at about day 10 (counting the first day of our period as day one) and lasting about 10 - 12 days. If there is no fertilized egg, the progesterone production stops and we start our periods a few days later.
When we supplement natural progesterone, we are only trying to duplicate the natural cycle of progesterone production. As we enter menopause, we continue to produce estrogen, just not at a level that triggers periods.... all part of nature's plan. But progesterone production tends to cease rather abruptly. Progesterone is also the hormone that is produced in abundance when we are pregnant. It is protective of the breasts and uterus.
When the adrenals are stressed, they will 'swipe' hormones from wherever they can get them, trying to keep up with the body's demands. Supplementing with natural progesterone (NOT SYNTHETIC OR MARES' URINE PROGESTIN) seems to help the adrenals. I like the natural progesterone cream. When tabs/caps are used only about 10% of the dosage makes it past the kidneys/liver/digestive tract. I would cut back on the progesterone.... especially if it is NOT the bio-identical natural progesterone. Some women are very sensitive to progesterone and require less than others. It might be prudent to get your progesterone tested. Saliva test is much more accurate than blood tests.
If you are curious... there is an excellent book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause" by progesterone pioneer, Dr. John Lee, that will be a real education and give you support and confidence in knowing what is going on with your body.
Had another thought... when you get your progesterone levels checked, go ahead and get your iron, D 3 and B 12 levels checked. It can be difficult to stabilize your NDT dosage if these other levels aren't optimal. it is a delicate dance, trying to get everything optimized at the same time. You didn't get sick overnite and you won't get it all together overnite. Just be patient but don't give up.
Low tsh is very normal when younare on batural dessicated thyroid. Why would your body signal to release tah when younare giving it all the hormone it needs? There are credible studies on the internet that will support this. You just need to print it out and take it with you to doctors office when you ask for more ndt. As to estrogen post menopausal, i wouldnt do it. The majority of all hypothyroid patients are ESTROGEN DOMINANT which is a problem because it blocks our bodies from taking up thyroid hormone and many othernproblems as well You can research that as well. There are otc things for vaginal dryness. I think progesterone is a goodnprotective hormone. It does make me sleepy though. I am wondering if that makea ypu lethargic. Are you taking a week off of the progesterone every monthh? It also makes my breasts large and tender too. You may be low energy because you need more thyroid hormone as well. It is very didficult to get accurate testing from bloodwork for hormone levels. You can research that as well. Good luck to you!
Thank u for all the kind replies....very helpful...I don't like feel g so dazed....spooky. ...afraid to stop cold turkey...and get g thyroid test and hormone test this morning paying out of pocket....but really do think I need to cut these hormones bec it started w them being increased almost immediately like 2 weeks
I have similar symptoms and am menopausal. I have been "breathless" for the last 5 years. Feel like I can't take a full, satisfying breath in (find myself yawning a lot to try and get a normal breath). This sensation lasted usually for 6 to 8 hours every day (was fine always when I was in bed). I had read on this site that low iron and/or anemia can cause shortness of breath. I had my ferritin levels checked and although I was in range I was only one up from the bottom of the range for women. I started supplementing my iron but with a fairly low dose (27mg). It wasn't until I ran out of mine and started taking my husbands higher dose over the counter iron (100mg elemental iron) for a few weeks that I noticed the breathlessness was improving and as of today is completely gone. At first I erroneously ascribed it to being switched from Synthroid to Eltroxin T4 in January, 2017 but I now firmly believe it to be due to my increasing iron levels. When I see my Endo on April 27th I will be requesting a recheck of iron as that is not on my standard requisition.
Since the fall of 2016 I have been feeling worse, put on 30 pounds and could no longer go to the gym (I used to go daily for the last 7 years) because of the feelings of breathlessness, tiredness and dizziness (didn't want to fall of the treadmill) So I do have my antibodies checked now every 6 weeks because I was also experiencing bouts of vertigo with lingering dizziness. Some internet searches suggested this could be part of menopause even though the doctor said he had not heard that. My antibodies are above 4,000. How much above I don't know. I think it must be quite high if they cant say how much above 4,000 and this testing always takes longer that the results for my other blood work. Those results are always available on-line to me within 24 hours of being tested. Most recently I have begun to experience daily hives which are a symptom of Hashimotos which clearly I have developed. I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid in 2002 and I always suspected that I did or would develop the autoimmune version as both my parents have several auto immune disorders so really what were the chances I would escape it? I say this as it is quite possible that you are developing antibodies at this point and perhaps you should ask to have them checked. I have followed the mineral and vitamin supplementation for Hashi's now for the last 7 years but it is so out of control now that I am going to ask my Endo about prescribing me Low Dose Naltrexone to see if that will halt the progression. He is said to be a very open minded doctor so it will be interesting to see his response. If you are interested google lowdosenaltrexone.org Best of luck. I had terrible hot flashes and night sweats to the point of them happening every 20 minutes and literally did not sleep for more than a few minutes at a stretch for about 18 months. It was me switching to this Endo that was a lifesaver for this problem. He prescribed me 3mg of Premarin and the Apo Medroxy to go with it (progersterone because I have a history of cervical cell dysplasia and then the protocol for HRT calls for both). In 24 hours I was transformed as it cut my hot flashes down by about 95 % and I can now sleep again.
wow what a journey....I know how you feel...I want to exercise yet plantar fasciitis in one foot limits walking etc and energy and then all this came about and I want to lose weight ....and get muscle tone back.....everything has went down hill bec if it isn't one thing it is a another so I understand it is no picnic.......Women...have a maze to work through....and it happens so fast........THANKS FOR YOU INPUT!!!!! when I pull down my eye lids they are not red but light pink and my husband said......you are low in iron..but I think it is a combo of things since I had the sore breast...that are almost gone today just by reducing the hormones I am taking.
well all minerals and vitamins came back in upper normal range so it isn't iron....my thyroid ft4ft3 was a little low is the only thing I see....and of course my hormones didn't really show a lot since I was off them for a week b4 testing bec I was too woosy to leave the house..
that makes sense bec every time I took it ...it seems the dizziness was increased yet when I kept up the progesterone and left off the estrogen for a week, the breast tenderness went away in 5 days....so I have barely taken any estrogen and I am only taking 40 mg of progesterone when she had me on 160mg...so it is weird that 40mg would still do that...when I used to be on 80mg for years with no problems....wondering how long would it take for the hormones to settle down if I was over medicated....
2nd question is....will low normal ft3 ft4 make you dizzy...hasn't in the past but then again..i wasn't on NDT nature throid.....I have increased myself to 2 grains and I am wondering....if I need to go back on synthroid.....I didn't have problems like this on sythroid just low normal ft3...and I had hair loss so we tried nature throid to get the ft3 in my body...and actually that was my idea since dr seems doesn't know what would be causing hair loss except low estrogen....hence I had vg dryness too...
one shocker is...I did a saliva test hormones a year ago at the same time as blood test....they were completely different..
then I did a blood spot test for thyroid and a blood serum test for thyroid and they were different as well...one saying spot test saying I was hypo and the other one saying I was in range...
saliva hormone test said I had high estrogen and serum blood saying I was low estrogen....
and I asked dr and she just said...I use serum....
I am learning that I get more guidance from my sisters on this site than my drs......thank you and bless each of you that take the sweet time to respond
i don't think i can be of much help, but i just want you to know that I am almost your identical scenario. I have been terribly lightheaded on Nature-throid - especially after I take my morning dose of 3/4 grain. (afternoon dose is 1/2 grain). It seems to be really bad right before my period and when i ovulate which tells me it has something to do with my hormones. I was on 88 mcg of levo with low range t3 back in November..so i needed more, but dr. switched me to naturethroid and I am still trying to find the optimal dose. I completely understand how you are feeling and i am ready to go back to synthroid with added t3 any day now!! LIke I said, i am of no help, but i understand your frustration and if my next dr. appointment sheds any light on this I will be sure to post it for you.
My dizziness went away..it seems when my progesterone was high I had dizziness and I was undermedicated, dr increased nature throid from 1.5 to 2 gr and lowered progesterone dosage.....DIZZINESS GONE.....she tested my progesterone and estrogen and I was low normal free t3.......high progesterone and low estrogen
Great news!! I guess I will be bringing YOUR post into my Dr. appt. Glad you are feeling better.
I have similar issues. I am suffering from severe hair loss. I am low t3. I am on WPThyroid 65mg. Dr's recently added estrogen patch to possibly help with the hair loss. Since I am in menopause, they said I did not need progesterone. I was wondering if the hormones have helped with your hair loss at all? Dr. is suggesting adding cytomel to bring up the t3 but I hear that causes hair loss as well. It's all so confusing. I cannot figure out the reason for the hair loss, thyroid meds have not helped it at all and I was curious if the hormones helped with your hair loss. This is all so confusing.
well the dizziness was caused by too much progesterone.......reduced to half dosage...dizziness vanished!!!
but recently I bought chi rosehip oil shampoo and conditioner....and for the last two washed barely any hair fell out...I had read that on reviews and can not believe it..i heard rose hip oil had miraculous properties.....so any of you may want to check this out......the shampoo is a little drying but my hair is soooo dry....and afterwards I use wen 613 oil on hair to give it moisture....or something like that morocan etc...
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nice 
NDT and results
First test results since starting NDT
NDT to Thyroxine 
Not sure what to do anymore ... 
estrogen vs progesterone question
