Got and started my NDT! (Nature Throid)

[HypoDad]

Hi guys,

Following on from my initial post of about 3 weeks ago...I've received my bottles of 1 grain and 1/4 grain Nature Throid from the US which only took a week to arrive and it worked out really cheap!

Being on 100 mcg of Levothyroxine (synthetic T4) coupled with a lot of reading led me to start on 1 grain per day and drop my T4 tablet. Well I took it for two days and felt like I was having an out of body experience: dizzy and a bit queasy and a bit lethargic with mild palpitations BUT still functional.

I decided to split the dose with a 1/2 grain in the morning and the same in the afternoon, much smoother and less symptomatic... I have now after two weeks been able to take 1 grain in the morning with no real adverse affects and a 1/2 grain in the afternoon (I still get really sleepy and tired around 1 - 3 pm, especially after eating lunch?) I'm about ten days in and feeling ok but I still have a very mild dizziness or perhaps light headedness which is the most accurate way I can describe the feeling.

Riding my mountain bike and going to gym does take discipline as I feel tired and 'lazy' but once I do exercise I feel amazing! THE BEST thing I've noticed is my muscles DO NOT cramp, don't get stiff and do not ache half as much following exercise whereas I could ride everyday and upon resting for 30 minutes have horrible stiffness all over - so BIG benefit there.

My question is, should I just bite the bullet and push up to 2 grains or try 1.75 grains now is it still early days and will I cause an issues by tapering too quickly?

I did see the endo I was referred too and he agreed to testing free T3, TSH, T4, and a short Synacthen test and vitamin D. Lesson learnt from past experience meaning I didn't take my 100 mcg Levothyroxine that morning...results as follows (summary of two letter from endo):

...bloods were stable showing normal kidney function and normal testosterone levels 18.4 (11-40), prolactin 158 (60-380)

...short synacthen test result: 613 nmol/L at 0 minutes followed by 30 minutes cortisol of 1113 nmol/L signifying and adequate response to synacthen.

...other results reveal normal Us and Es - what is that!?

...TSH 1.20 free T4 of 21 free T3 of 5.3

So what do you lovely and well informed folk think of

a) the test results

b)my dosage regime on the NDT thus far

c) anything else you feel is relevant

One step closer to normality...looking forward to hearing off you all :o)

[Clutter]

Hypodad, I think Us & Es must be urea and electrolytes.

The dizziness, queasiness and mild palpitations were probably cause by the T3 in NatureThroid. You were right to split your dose to even out the T3 peaks. Try taking your second dose an hour/2 hours before lunch and see if the apres lunch slump eases. The cramps easing are probably also due to the T3. Although you feel T3 effects quite quickly after a dose it takes 48/72 hours to reach the cells and does take a few weeks for it to metabolise and work throughout the body.

Although you haven't included the lab ref ranges (the figures in brackets after your results) I think your TSH, FT4 and FT3 show you were optimally medicated on 100mcg T4. 1 grain is roughly equivalent to 75mcg-100mcg T4. 1/2 grain increases are advised fortnightly until symptoms resolve but you don't want your FT3 going over range by overmedicating.

Don't be surprised to see your TSH and FT4 lower at your next blood test. T3 usually makes this happen.

[Thanks59300 in reply to Clutter]

So I have been on naturethroid for years. No real issues. On 2 grains. I was close to running out because pharmacy had to order so to make my last 7 last I only took half of dose per day versus having none for the week as I waited for shipment to come in. So now for past week have my normal dose of two grains per day which I split up in morning and about 2 pm. Oh and blood work was done a couple weeks before I had this little shortage and my 2 grain dose has me at perfect place.

Anyway as I am about a week into having my 2 grain and splitting them as I have for years, I notice dizziness. Especially as I stand up very quickly. So do you think my body is back like a virgin to NDT. ? I remember having the dizziness years ago. Dr could find nothing. Just attributed it to adjusting to meds. Find it hard to believe that two weeks on the low dose and now having these dizzy spells. Feel like I may faint but I just sit or stand real still until it passed

I guess my question is is it common as my body is adjusting to regular dose the t3 is causing me dizziness again. I cannot stand feeling dizzy Single mom here and scares my son to death. Scares me at times!! But all of the above is only change to my regimen. And I simply cannot tolerate synthetic t4. Tried many brands and results were disastrous. Best I felt was on old formula armpit before they changed but have been ok on naturethroid. Except for dizziness on any increase etc. how long will t3 cause this dizziness? Thanks so much

[Clutter in reply to Thanks59300]

Thanks59300, I think it is likely you became undermedicated on the lower dose. You should feel better in a week or two when levels improve on 2 grains.

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I am not a medical professional and this information is not intended to be a substitute for medical guidance from your own doctor. Please check with your personal physician before applying any of these suggestions.

[Saelina in reply to Thanks59300]

Did it pass, im getting this and my dose just increased

[Heloise]

Hi Dad, delightful news. I'm no expert but I think NDT is more potent since it contains more than T4. Your brain isn't used to natural T3 either. I think these things might need some assimilating by your body. Were those test results since the new protocol? So it's only been three weeks? It would be better to have the ranges as well but they look pretty good. I'd be inclined to give yourself more time to get to the full benefit of taking NDT at your present dose. You've already matched your previous dose of T4. Do you think you need to double that by going to two grains? There is an article about transitioning from T3 to NDT but it may be similar to what you are doing.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/s...

[HypoDad in reply to Heloise]

Thanks Clutter, that makes sense. I'll take my morning tab at 7 am as per and the second around mid day (I do notice a kick up the backside late afternoon post 1/2 grain vroom vroom lol

Thanks Heloise, I've been on the NDT for 2 weeks today and progressed from 1 grain to 1.5 gains per day with a split of 1 grain in the morning around 7am and a further 1/2 grain mid afternoon. The bloods were from 2 weeks ago, the last day I took T4 (Levo) and pre NDT which indicate I was optimised blood serum wise but still felt symptomatic hence my swap to NDT...I'm not noticing much difference really at present just a little light headed, mid day slump and less stiffness.

But the fatigue and brain fog has crept back slightly like it was when I first started T4 about 18 months ago which is quite frustrating. I'm still happy overall as I can enjoy my exercise which has allowed me to lose the 10 - 15kgs the hypothyroidism caused in the first place, that way I hope to keep it off so that's a big victory in my eyes!

[HypoDad in reply to Heloise]

I'll stick to 1.5 daily for another week and try anther 1/4 grain increase and see how I go...I think 2 grains will be the way to go truth be told as I'm 6ft, active and 14.5 stone and STTM reckons 2 grains is the average and some other people need 3 or 4 on the higher doses.

[Heloise in reply to HypoDad]

Ha, I don't have scientific evidence but I've known fast metabolisers who were barely five feet tall so I don't know if size matters with thyroid hormones. Recently read that iron and ferritin are very important for the brain as well as lots of T3 so do you have good levels of those? It sounds as if your transition is going well. Smaller increments of increase as you get close to two grains might be called for since you might slip right to overmedication and not realize it since symptoms of both hypo and hyper can be similar.

Keep being encouraging!

[HypoDad in reply to Heloise]

That's fair comment, we all have a different BMR despite size etc. One thing I've taken note of is to take it slow so I'll stick to 1.5 grains daily for the next couple of weeks to see if it all evens out

[tDR1980 in reply to HypoDad]

Replied at the bottom of the thread - meant to reply here.

[shaws]

I wouldn't rush the increases. Let your body adjust to your new hormones. Some advice:

GOING UP WITH DOSAGES WAY TOO FAST. This was observed a few years ago: a doctor put his patient on desiccated thyroid. One grain, then 2 grains, 3 grains, 4 grains, 5 grains, then 6 grains. But the problem was that he did this within 4-5 weeks! OUCH. He started to find himself majorly overdosed with symptoms to match (high heart rate, sweating).

He had to stop for a few weeks… then resume again at one grain and do it the right way–approx. 1/2 grain raise every two weeks, slowing down in the 2-3 grain area (and for some, slowing down on even lower amounts).

stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...

[HypoDad in reply to shaws]

Oh deadear, that sounds grim. I'm taking the one grain in the AM now followed by the 0.5 in the PM and feeling symptomatic. Can't tell if I'm hypo or hyper at present

[shaws in reply to HypoDad]

Whatever type of thyroid hormone I have taken, I always have had one daily dose. Before the blood tests we were medicated according to clinical symptoms and thyroid meds were increased gradually (I think about every 4 to 6 weeks) till we sensed we felt well with good temp and pulse and reached an optimum dose and if overstimulated reduced back down.

[tDR1980]

I'm also male and had major muscle cramps on T4 alone when exercising. I had been doing a lot of Swimming before and after starting on T4 and noticed the increase in leg cramps big time such that I was having to Swim with just my arms sometimes when the cramps kicked in mid length.

I had T3 added (10mcg) daily in place of some of the T4 which eliminated the cramps pretty much straight away. The Levo was still causing me some weird health symptoms so I decided to ditch the lot in favour of Thyroid-S NDT and now feel pretty 'normal' all round.

I'm of the opinion that guys really need the T3 for whatever reason, trouble is the vast majority of Hypo patients are ladies so the docs just apply the same rules and tell us any symptoms that mysteriously come on after starting Levo are definitely not related and must be another health condition. Sorry, but that was far too much of a coincidence and convenient an explanation for me.

[HypoDad in reply to tDR1980]

Hey tDR1980, I totally agree! I'm reasonably fit but don't seem to progress due to muse weakness, cramp, stiffness and lack of stamina whilst exercising. So I find I've hit a plateau and that's it as if I push myself too hard I take a couple of days to recover which is annoying.

Well I stated gym 3 weeks ago alongside the NDT. I was so stiff and in pain it was ludicrous, anyhow, I persevered. 4 to 5 days in I did all my cardio, rowing machine etc and smashed all the resistance training, guess what? Hardly any stiffness, only what you would expect which really cheered me up and confirmed that the T3 was the holy grail my muscles have been crying out for over the last 2 years and thousands of muddy mountain biking miles ha ha

[shaws in reply to tDR1980]

When I first began levo I became so unwell and with widespread muscle/joint pain which I never had before levo. Couldn't step on a pavement or comb hair.

As soon as I added T3 with Eltroxin (before they withdrew it for some reason) and felt great. The other levo's whichever I tried were not making me better. So I switched to T3 alone and that's what I take at present.

PS Many people who have said they took Eltroxin for years have found a difference with the generic one that replaced it although the makers deny there is any difference.

[Glynisrose]

Please remember that any sort of exercise uses up T3 and that is why you may feel tired later.

[HypoDad in reply to Glynisrose]

That's a fair point. What I meant to say was that I would suffer a big slump which wasn't a natural tiredness. That as you say can be attributed to the T3 being used up cellularly. Being on T4 and perhaps not optimally medicated probably exacerbated things. Praise the T3 in NDT!

[HypoDad]

Update: so I updated my dose from 1 to 1.5 grains daily. Started feeling hyper: dizzy, light headed etc. I only took 1 grain yesterday and the symptoms subsided. I've taken a 1/2 grain this morning and will do the same later. Been reading my STTM book this morning 're: adrenal fatigue and I had all the signs mentioned (they present as feeling hypo) but how could I be hyper on 1 grain when I was on 100 mcg Levothyroxine? So I'm buying a thermometer and will order the saliva test kit to check out my cortisol levels. A year ago I thought all this 'stuff' was bull dust, consider me converted!

[Heloise]

i don't know if you have seen this article posted today by Joesmum but it may apply to your current situation. I tend to agree with this theory.

thyrophoenix.com/adjusting_...

[HypoDad in reply to Heloise]

Oh wow, what an incredibly informative site! It's like STTM for dummies

[HypoDad in reply to Heloise]

I took one grain today and feel better for it. I've looked into ordering a salisaliva test kit to see if my cortisol levels are ok, just to err on the side of caution. Thanks for the link and advice, I really appreciate all of the advice from all of you. I'm determined to get well and help like this goes a long way to getting there!