NDT sublingually.

[Lucas22]

Hello.

Male, 40 years old.

I want to share my results after trying NDT sublingually to see if this is a normal pattern to happen.

I was taking 75 mcg Syntroid, and these was my results whit it:

TSH: 2,48 Ref: 0,27 – 4,20

Free T3: 0,26 ng/dl Ref: 0,20 – 0,44 ng/dl

Reverse T3: 0,16 ng/ml Ref: 0,10 – 0,35

T3: 0,83 ng/ml Ref: 0,80 – 2,00

T4: 83,2 nmol/l Ref: 66 – 181

Free T4: 1,27 ng/dl Ref: 0,93 – 1,70

I feel better whit Syntroid vs without it, but still feel fatigued whit brain fog and horribly joint pain on my knees (heavy legs felling).

So, I changed to NDT, TR. Tman from Thailand. Started whit ¼ of grain increasing ¼ of grain every 2 weeks. I take NDT sublingually at 7 am and 2 pm. Whit it I feel better on my legs, but still don’t feel well. These are my results after using 1.5 grains for 6 weeks:

TSH: 3,32 Ref: 0,27 – 4,20

Free T3: 0,31 ng/dl Ref: 0,20 – 0,44 ng/dl

T3: 0,97 ng/ml Ref: 0,80 – 2,00

T4: 52,4 nmol/l Ref: 66-181

Free T4: 0,79 ng/dl Ref: 0,93 -1,70

Ok, so my T3 numbers had increased, but my T4 numbers are very, very worse, and my TSH raised!!

1.5 grains of this NDT brand is about 57 mcg of T4 and 13.5 mcg of T3.

A reduction from 75 mcg of T4 to 57 mcg cannot make a so big drop on my T4 numbers like this. I think that taking the NDT sublingually was not optimal for me, make me under medicated.

So, today I started taking NDT orally whit 50 mcg of Syntroid added to my NDT dose. I fell a little better, but not spectacular of a difference.

What do you think?

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Lucas

TR Man is pink and with a hard sugar coating isn't it? How on earth do you take that sublingually? Surely the hard sugar coating can't dissolve?

[Lucas22 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Yes, it the pink one, and it dissolves, and looking at my labs, maybe the 1.5 grains taking sublingually was really equal to half grain!!

[shaws]

Unfortunately, even though I've read some take NDT sublingually, they aren't getting the amount of hormones they believe, due to the fact that thyroid hormones are too large to be absorbed through the tongue. Best procedure is to take it with one full glass of water so it goes direct into stomach.

When taking thyroid hormones the best way to judge if dose is optimum is 'how we feel' on a particular dose. By increasing dose by 1/4 every two weeks is fine.

I think I'd give NDT a better trial as there is no quick-fix but you are taking the original form of thyroid hormone replacement which has been used in various forms since 1892 up until Big Pharma saw an opening of how to increase their profits, i.e. Blood tests along with levothyroxine. Many do well on levo but I don't think they'd be searching for an option. I never split doses due to the fact that we have to find a 'window' when stomach is completely empty and food interferes with the uptake.

The aim is a TSH of 1 or lower with a FT4 and FT3 in the upper part of the ranges. Best of all is the relief of all clinical symptoms and you feel you have normal health.

This link may be helpful:

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[Lucas22 in reply to shaws]

So, I can take the 1.5 grains just one time a day, at wake up, and don’t have a crash at the afternoon?

[Jazzw in reply to Lucas22]

I take my NDT dose once a day and don’t seem to experience a crash (and I’m on 3 grains).

Try it.

Personally, I’d be raising my NDT dose to 2 grains rather than adding levo if I were you, but your way might just work - it’s worth a shot.

[Lucas22 in reply to Jazzw]

Thank you. So, you have plenty of energy all day? I will try tomorrow my 1.5 grains all at one time and see what happens.

[shaws in reply to Lucas22]

Also take your pulse and temp, so that as you raise your dose, gradually, every 2 weeks if either goes high you drop to previous dose.

Dr Lowe also only took one blood test for his patients initially and thereafter it was all about how the patient felt on particular dose plus relief of symptoms.

[NatChap in reply to Lucas22]

I take mine all in one go first thing in the morning and it works fine. If you do have a crash in the afternoon then it's probably just that you aren't yet on a high enough dose x

[shaws in reply to Lucas22]

Yes, Dr Lowe (USA) always told his patients to take one daily dose. I shall also give you a chapter from one of his books. He was an Adviser to Thyroiduk.org.uk but had an accident and he died. He is greatly missed.

web.archive.org/web/2010112...

[shaws in reply to Lucas22]

It is best to have blood tests in the morning, the earlier the better, do not take thyroid hormones before a blood test but afterwards otherwise TSH will be skewed. It should also be a fasting test although you can drink water

[ShootingStars in reply to shaws]

Exactly. The molecules are too large to be absorbed sublingually. Thyroid meds are only absorbed in the GI tract.

[LAHs in reply to ShootingStars]

Yes, my theory is that people who are taking thyroid meds sublingually are actually just swallowing it via their saliva. They do get the medication, it just takes a bit longer to get to the stomach. It is also not a good idea to coat your esophagus with thyroid meds loaded saliva it will slowly wear away the esophageal lining - which is why you take thyroid meds with a glass of water to make sure it gets to the stomach quickly - where it can be processed.

[Naomi8]

TR Mann has a special coating designed to help it stay intact beyond the stomach into the small intestine.If you want to take NDT sublingually,go for Thiroid.

I am taking Thiroid sublingually after reading up on "Stop The Thyroid Madness"

Previously,I have taken NDT with water.

[SilverAvocado]

It doesn't matter that your freeT4 has reduced. This happens to everyone on NDT, freeT4 ends up quite a bit lower than freeT3.

You've had a dose increase, because 1 grain of NDT is equivalent to about 75mcg of T4.

Your freeT3 is a bit better, so I'd expect symptoms to be slightly better - freeT3 is the most important number, and most closely predicts symptoms out of the thyroid panel.

But the dose you're on his still very low for you, so you might not even see the benefit yet. Ideally dose based on symptoms and freeT3. You've got loads of room for improvement here, you want freeT3 in the top third.

If I were you I'd stick with NDT, and keep raising till your numbers are optional. It's only once you've got nice blood tests that you can really tell if NDT suits you.

[ShootingStars]

You are very under medicated on both medications. You are still very under medicated with your NDT. Both your FT3 and FT4 are still much too low and nowhere near optimal range. Yours are not even up to half range, and optimal is above that. Your TSH is also much too high hence the much too low FT3 and FT4. Why would you reduce your meds when you need a lot more?

Neither synthetic nor NDT is taken sublingually. It's absorbed in your digestive tract.

[TSH110]

seems little is known about its ingredients and it is not designed to be taken sublingually. Few are, Acella is one and it states in the instructions to take it sublingually not to swallow it down, but I find ThyroidS works the same if I take it sublingually or not, so I take it sublingually I like the taste I hope for some of the calcitonin and the bits that don't fully dissolve go down to the stomach anyway. I react very rapidly to medications (even have the genes for it) perhaps this is significant. It is not designed to be taken sublingually

This is from Stop the Thyroid Madness which lists all the NDT types and their ingredients:.

T.R. (non-prescription) is a desiccated thyroid product from Thailand that has been seen in 2015 more than previous years. It’s a hard-coated tablet that patients have to swallow, but seems to work according to the few patient reports we have seen. We know abysmally little about the ingredients, so it’s at your own risk. To see the tablet, go here. It is ordered over the internet.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

You need a higher dose, you may find this guide helpful:

tpauk.com/main/article/trea...

[silverfox7]

Welcome! I take thyroid S and I tried splitting my dose to start off with but keep forgetting the second one ! So once o had got used to the T3 I took it all at once and was fine and it's easier to take other things around it.

So I would just continue on the same dose but swallow it with a full glass of water so it reaches the right place to be absorbed. Then make sure your body is happy with that and I'm sure you will find your FT3 level higher.

You look to have found out that by taking any form of T3 results are read differently. TSH should be suppressed so very low, FT4 can fall in the range but FT3 should be high in the range and is the only accurate reading.

By not taking Levo (T4) first you won't know if you are converting the inactive T4 into the active T3 as to do that you would compare the FT4 Reading with the FT3 but now only the FT3 reading is accurate. So it would be a good idea to get VIT D, B12, folate and ferritin tested as they help the Thyroid work better and also help conversion issues. So if you find any of those below ranges then you probably aren't converting well and the same, but to a lesser extent if you are in range but not optimal. SeasideSusie is great on advice for what the levels need to be and how to get them there so I should start looking into that as if you have a conversion issue and many of us have that with help address it. Utvit does take time and you may find that your FT3 goes above range which is a no no so drop back on medication if that happens. Getting these four things at a good level can also help with some symptoms you may notice as well.

But stake it steady and see how it goes and keep posting for further help and guidance. I was told that when I reached 2 grains to then increase in quarters and I got up to 3 but didn't feel that was right. I saw an Endo who dropped me back to 1.75 and he was right! I'd missed my sweet spot by going from 1.5 up to 2! So keep listening to your body, it can take time but you will get there!

[Furface]

Your bloods show you are under medicated on both. It takes time for the body to settle on a new dose of NDT. Everyone is different.

For me, I had to take NDT on a starting one grain and it made no difference at all. This was because I had appalling gut issues, adrenal exhaustion and hormonal imbalance. I switched and split the one grain into three and took it sublingually three times a day. Sensation came back into my fingers after two days and have carried on improving since though so far have only reached 1 and 1/3 grains. I cannot increase again yet as adrenals are not strong enough. There is no one size fits all and its trial and error, you soon learn what makes you feel better.

[Colliemad]

Hi Lucas22. I have no idea what a lot of these terms like NDT or grains are. Ive been blindly minding my own business taking my meds and feeling fine until this bombshell was dropped on me and thought id see who else was affected by this travesty. Seems lots of people have though. I know that every case is completely different as the thyroid can be very complicated. I have always taken levothyroxine and liothyronine, and have never had to try other meds. Maybe someone else can help you out. Sorry

[Hidden]

I have found after trying all the various ways of taking NDT, that chewing it up and drinking half a glass of water, by far the best way for me...in addition I no longer split my dose and take it all in the early morning. Taking any later meant for me, I just couldn't get to sleep. !

[Lucas22]

Thanks’ for all the answers.

So, today I take 1.5 grains all at once in the morning, swollen it.

I don’t fell hyper. but it is 25 Celsius here and I am freezing! My hands are very cold. Why this happened?

[NatChap in reply to Lucas22]

Lucas22 dose increases aren't always felt straight away. When I increase my NDT it can take a couple of weeks at least to feel the benefit. Lots of people hear folk talk about NDT and think it's a miracle medicine, it is good and works much better than levothyroxine for me, however it still takes time and patience. I have been taking NDT for 2 years and whilst I feel pretty much like I did pre Hashimotos (and have done for about 6 months), I'm still fine tuning it! You also need all of your nutrient levels to be optimal or you will still feel ill...low b12, ferritin and vitamin can all give symptoms similar to hypothyroidism.

[whitepointer]

HI,Sounds like the rest of us, trying to help yourself with trying things out of desperation as most of us do because no one will listen to us. You obviously got Synthroid from a doctor?. You were 2.48 on Synthroid, but what were you before you started it?. 2.48 is too high, or not optimal. Optimal should be 1.00 or under. Drs don't know about optimal. At my worst I was 3.00, so no wonder you felt bad on that. Plus that is only T4 and you obviously needed T3 added. Drs rarely will add that as they aren't allowed to or know that. Did you get the Synthroid from Thailand?. Once again I don't blame you. When you buy it on line from third world, possible unregulated countries the quality can be suspect . If you have Reverse T3 syndrome, which I have Synthroid is useless, as you need T3 because that is what is causing our symptoms, not enough. You changed to NDT. The quality could be suspect hence your levels going up. You don't know how much thyroid hormone is in the tablets. These tablets have T3 and all other thyroid hormones naturally. Your on 1 and a half tablets after six weeks which seems a reasonal progression but as I said your levels should go down slightly. I'm on 3 grains of NDT, Naturethroid (one of the top two NDT brands world wide). I get mine from the USA. I'm in Australia. I get mine from an Integrative Doctor who specialises in thyroid disorders and is also a natrapath. This is possible what you need to do if your just treating your self, although you are having blood tests which mean you must see a GP. But the problem is they go by the recommended test levels. I went to a thyroid specialising Naturapath who sorted me out, very long story but you need all your vitamin levels checked, Iron, Vit D, Vit B12, because they will be out if you are hypothyroid. If you can find an Intergrative Dr in your area or even start with a natripath who specialises in thyroid disorder that may get you going on the right track. Natripaths diagnose by symptoms ect which Drs don't listen to . Another very helpful resource is the website, "Stop the thyroid madness". If I hadn't of found that site I don't know where I would be. I'm not Dr obviously but this is what I had to do in my case. Good luck