Just had an argument with my doctor.

[un_piacere]

In brief: almost two years ago I was diagnosed with subclinical hypothyroidism after going to the docs with a whole bunch of the usual symptoms, from hair loss and dry skin to memory problems. Antibodies were present (Anti-TPO of 130), my TSH was around 8 (and has fluctuated since then between 8 and 4), my T4 was about 14 which was the middle of the range, and I have since had my T3 tested and it was also middle of the range (exact number escapes me at present). During this time I have seen 3 different GPs, all of whom have refused to take me seriously or give me medication. In fact, one of them sent me to a therapist because I sometimes cried during appointments. Tears of frustration which she decided were tears of depression. I do sometimes feel low, but it's a symptom - not a cause!

Anyway, over the past few months I've been getting bad migraines behind my eyes and today I had a dizzy spell and almost fainted which is not normal for me, so I phoned for a telephone consultation and it was a new doctor that spoke to me. He said 'Your TSH was 4.75 in January, so you're normal'. I explained that while it may be considered 'normal' in this country, in many other countries I would have been medicated for being over the 2.5 mark. He said that this was a load of rubbish, and that while these other countries might have a lower benchmark, it's because their ranges are different, and that if you looked at all of the ranges and compared them you'd find that actually every country medicates at the same point.

This isn't true, is it? Can anyone show me facts/figures that disprove this?

[Muffy]

If you were diagnosed with subclinical hypothyroidism when you had symptoms, then it can't be subclinical. Doctors should give a trial of thyroxine if the patient has symptoms and a TSH of 8 is far too high.

Did you have your blood tests at different times of the day? Have a test as early as you can in the day, around 8am if possible.

[un_piacere in reply to Muffy]

Some have been in the morning and others in the afternoon - will make sure all are in the morning from now on, as that's defnitely when I get the higher TSH readings.

[Hidden]

Im so sorry about this! How awful for you :(. What he says about ranges is complete nonsense. I am fairly new to the thyroid world, and there are far more experienced people here who can help you with the facts and figures, but until then be satisfied that you were right and he was wrong x

[un_piacere in reply to Hidden]

Thank you x

[shaws]

This is from Thyroiduk.org and it is such a pity doctors, when medical students, are not trained in clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism as they used to be. We then would be diagnosed on our symptoms not on TSH alone.

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

[un_piacere in reply to shaws]

Thank you very much for this. It's quite appalling to read over that and compare it to the reality.

[TSH110]

How awful and I think he is the one spouting rubbish especially re the ranges. When my TSH was 6.8 I felt simply dreadful and was in a terrible state (and I had come back on a fearful and horrendous journey from TSH 110 which was unspeakably terrible). To keep you at 8 or even 4.5 when you have all the clinical signs including dizziness and fainting is quite simply cruelty when he could do something so simple to help you. What exactly are doctors for if not to help people who are ill feel better. Can you change practices and get one who has more than a heart of stone? You should ask to be referred for a second opinion. I really feel for you suffering so unnecessarily through medical negligence on the part of the Gps at your practice. It is such a shame we can't make them stand in our shoes to know what this illness is like if it is left untreated I do hope you get some medication soon.

[un_piacere in reply to TSH110]

Well, I've had to move house three times in the past couple of years so I have seen several doctors at different practices, and they've more or less all been the same. The problem is that a lot of the practices where I live (Glasgow) only let you join if you fall within their catchment area. Thankfully I will be moving again to somewhere more permanent in a few months time so I will be seeing someone new; I just fear that I'll keep hearing the same thing over and over again. I was referred to an endocrinologist about a year ago for a second opinion by a slightly more understanding GP, but he was a complete pig. Told me that I couldn't be hypo because I'm thin!

[TSH110 in reply to un_piacere]

Daft prat some hypo suffers do go thin and some hyper go fat (I told a pal of mine 3yrs ago I though she might have a thyroid disorder, cos she did not look right - esp her eyes very bulgy, starey and puffy. She is no sylph - she finally went a couple of weeks ago and she is hyper. I was hypo then hyper then hypo but was fat for all three! He knows nothing. Fancy getting to consultant and being so ignorant.

I hope you get a decent doc at the next place surely the 4th one has to be a good egg!

Fingers crossed for you

Fx

[shaws in reply to un_piacere]

Hi, I have just read your post and noticed you live in Glasgow. The Scottish Parliament have heard a Petition by two Scottish Ladies complaining about non-diagnosing and disgusting treatment by doctors. They are trying to get a change in the law. This is the Petition and if you search Scottish Parliament above several other things will appear.

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Anuba]

What an a@@@! Excuse my language oops.....tell him to go read it himself and get some updating done - I think some gps really dont have a clue about thyroid stuff....eeeek....at least mine is semi okay but still not greatly knowledgeable....a gp is a general practitioner this means he is good at a general knowledge of medicine not a specialist on thyroid so he wont know alot of stuff about all the details. You need an endocrinologist or to pay for a private one recommended by private pm here or go to this site. stopthethyroidmadness.com/

They need to be treating anybody with symtoms near the five mark or even over the three mark......end of story....thats how it works! Symtoms then you treat....duh dumb doc jobsworth number reliant non intuitive creatures some of them.....sorry....

[un_piacere in reply to Anuba]

Thanks very much - I think I will have to go to see a specialist.

[cc120]

I thought that if you have high antibodies and 5 or over TSH that GP's will treat or refer.

[un_piacere in reply to cc120]

Not sure - I'm in Scotland so don't know if it's slightly different up here. They didn't automatically check me for antibodies - I had to request that they do it after doing my own research - and when they found them, they said that the antibodies could be there for any number of reasons and that it didn't necessarily mean that I had an autoimmune problem. Which I think is BS?

[helvella in reply to un_piacere]

You can have a positive antibody test result without having an autoimmune thyroid disorder - for example, after the thyroid has suffered trauma such as an operation or injury. Positive antibody tests are only indicative of autoimmune - not in themselves proof. But this is, perhaps, towards the "splitting the hair" end of things, it is most likely that you have autoimmune thyroid disease.

My treatment was started with a TSH only a cigarette paper above 5. It is possible!

Rod

[un_piacere in reply to helvella]

Thanks for clarifying Rod!

[cc120 in reply to un_piacere]

Hi un_piacere, a thread you might find interesting:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

galathea - Your GP is a fool. The upper ranges for tsh in the uk are 5 if you have antibodies ( you do). And 10 if you don't. The fact that your t4 and t3 is in range just means that your poor failing thyroid is working very very hard, because it is being flogged to death by the tsh. You need to write a letter to her, and send a copy to the head of practise, list your symptoms. ( copy a list). And state that your tsh is over range. State how long you have been feeling rough and ask or a trial of thyroid hormones and an appointment with a endocrinologist. The doctor is putting your heart health at risk by not treating you... Is she a sadist?

[un_piacere in reply to cc120]

Thank you!

[cc120 in reply to un_piacere]

Your welcome and a post from reallyfedup123 on same thread: i bet your ferritin is way way below 70 and that your folate is also low which is why you cannot tolerate or utilise thyroxine t4

[Neeta-K]

I lived in Germany & so i have a copy of all the ranges for TSH, FT4 & 3. So your GP is talking a load of nonsense! The biggest mistake i made was to come back to England. If i stayed in Germany I would have been treated a lot earlier! I went through exactly what you are going through now..well still am, but am getting better on t4/t3 meds. Endo wants me on a low dose of t4/3 because my TSH was 5. But i'm doing what i want. Never trust doctors, especially NHS ones!! X

[un_piacere in reply to Neeta-K]

Could you possibly tell me what the ranges are, if it's not too much trouble? I'd be really interested to see!

[cc120]

I was feeling terrible on TSH 4, 7 years ago. Now TSH 8, and feeling absolutely awful, though a tad better since starting naturethroid 30mg x a day for a couple of weeks, after (hopefully) increasing vits and iron.

[un_piacere in reply to cc120]

I think I'll need to work on my iron too. The doctors tested my iron last year and told me the results came back as 'normal', and this was before I learned to always ask for the numbers. So I called back recently to check and was told that my ferritin was 30 (range 20-300)!

[cc120 in reply to un_piacere]

On ebay: Iron Tablet- Ferrous Fumarate 210mg - 84Tablets - £5.49 inc p&p. I take 1 x day, with vit c for better absorption, also take Vit c Time release later in the day.

[un_piacere]

Cheers, will do.

[penny]

I'm not sure quite when I became hypothyroid but I reckon that it was over 30 years' ago - I am 5'10" and weighed 9st!