Armour update and trying to fine-tune my dose...

[Clarebear]

Hello - think this should really be in the posts section, but I don't seem to be able to create a new post It does end with a question though, so maybe it's OK to post it here after all

I haven't written an update for about 6 months, but basically I have been trying to fine-tune my dose of Armour thyroid, whilst dealing with an anxious child starting secondary school and ailing elderly parents.

It is now exactly 2 years since I started my Armour thyroid "journey". It certainly wasn't plain sailing for the first 6 months, due to horrendous anxiety, headaches and vertigo etc etc, but after adopting the CT3M, I was able to raise my dose above 1.25 grains , which had seemed impossible...

This time last year I was feeling at my best on 2.5 grains with the following blood test results:

TSH < 0.02

fT4 16.0

fT3 5.8

Ferritin: 98

I subsequently raised my dose to 2.75 grains but found this to be too high. I had to reduce down to 2.5/2.25 grains as I now felt over-medicated on 2.5 grains

Blood tests in August on this regime were as follows (I felt OK but not as good as March):

TSH <0.02 (0.27-4.2)

fT4 15.9 (12-22)

fT3 5.1 (3.1-6.8)

During the Autumn I started to feel a bit over-medicated again and on Christmas Eve felt really hyper - a bit angry, dizzy and unable to sleep. I reduced my dose down to 2.25 grains per day and had a blood test last week. The results were as follows:

TSH <0.02 (0.27-4.2)

fT4 15.8 (12-22)

fT3 4.9 (3.1-6.8)

Ferritin: 61

I had started to feel a bit under-medicated by then - headaches, slight tingling in my head, insomnia (I get this when over and under-medicated) and a bit of very unwelcome anxiety I was interested to see that my ferritin had dropped back from 98 where it was when I felt really well to 61. I have started supplementing with iron again and hope this will allow me to tolerate a higher dose of Armour again, as I definitely felt better last March.

I am now trying a regime of 2.5 grains on Monday and Friday and 2.25 grains on the other 5 days - fingers crossed that this might do the trick...

I am very lucky to get my Armour on an NHS prescription from my lovely GP

Thanks very much for reading this Just wondering if any one else has such trouble getting their dosage right??

I am feeling way better than I did on thyroxine, but am a bit frustrated that I can't quite seem to get things completely right...

Thanks, Clare xxx

[Moggie]

Could it be the known inconsistency of Armour that is causing you the problems, which I know you can do nothing about, meaning that you will always have to juggle your dose to suit the tablets. This was the first thing my endo mentioned when I asked about NDT and the main reason why he did not like it - "I wouldn't know at any given time what dose of T3/T4 my patients were on if I prescribed NDT" was his main comment. You, and others on here, may totally disagree with this theory but it is only that - me thinking out loud.

Just a thought Clare - you might want to start writting down batch numbers and see if a pattern arises.

Sorry you are still struggling and I hope you find your answers soon as your personal situation means you need to be fit and well doesn't it.

Moggie x

[sezzy in reply to Moggie]

Sorry to impose does nature throid have same problems with inconsistancy?

[Moggie in reply to sezzy]

There can be inconsistancies in any drug and NDT is not immune to this. Have a read of this very interesting article on that exact subject.

thyroid.about.com/od/thyroi...

Moggie x

[Hidden in reply to Moggie]

I don't think NDT is any more inconsistent than Levo! x

[Clarebear in reply to Hidden]

Yes - think levo has been recalled proportionately more for inconsistency

[real_mission in reply to Clarebear]

One overlooked aspect is that the thyroid can actively respond to energy needs, whereas you're taking a fixed dosage, so if you're having a busy day, you'll use more of your available dose rather than a working thyroid upping production to compensate.

[Clarebear]

Thanks for your replies

I am taking a high dose of vitamin c with my iron, to help with the absorption. I don't know why my ferritin has dropped a bit, but its still much better than when I was on T4 only - if was below range then.

I'd rather not take any T4 as I think it might give me a rT3 problem but did wonder about taking a small dose of T3 though. It's tricky though as I have persuaded endo and GP into NDT and asking for some T3 might undermine this

Moggie - I will keep a note of the batch numbers. I know some of the half grain tablets are quite old and might be from before Armour was re formulated for a second time (if it was)....

Thanks xx

[debjs]

Hi Clare,

Don't know if you remember me but we started our Armour journey about the same time. I am having the same problems as you but trying to increase to 3 and 1/2 grains. Although much better than I was I am still a long way from well and just can't seem to get the right dose. I tried adding a small dose of T4 last year but had all the same problems I had before and within a few days I could not walk and was so dizzy I could not stand up. It has taken me many months to get back to 3 grains of Armour. I saw Dr S in Nov and he suggested an increase and said some people can only increase by 1/8 grain at a time. I tried that for 2 weeks (though cutting the tablets is a pain!) and was then able to increase to 3 and1/4 where I have been for 6 weeks now. Sadly can't speak to the lovely Dr S as he suggested at this stage but like you am fortunate to have a good GP who prescribes my Armour. Dr S did suggest I might need to add some T3 but wanted to see how I got on with an increase first. My TSH is supressed and my T3 just above range which freaks my GP and endo a bit. Seem to be in a similar position to you so can't really be of any help though I sometimes find it helpful to know others have similar problems.

[Clarebear]

Hi Debjs - yes of course I remember you We had similar issues with raising our dosage.

Glad you have made it to the dizzy heights of 3.25 grains. Dr S is such a sad loss though. Glad you have decent GP and endo.

That is interesting to hear that DR S said that some people could only raise by1/8 of a grain at a time - sounds just like me

I have a feeling that I will need to carry on fine tuning dosage indefinitely, but just so glad to feel pretty normal most of the time Hope you make it up to 3.5 grains. Xxx

[sarahstevenson]

Hi Clare - just thought I'd say hi - interesting how much juggling you're having to contend with and the changing ferritin results. I am still juggling with T3 doses and am due to collect ferritin results on 6th Feb.. Hope to update properly with you soon. Hope you find a best way asap. x

[Clarebear in reply to sarahstevenson]

Hi - am feeling much better so far on new regime - I wonder how long for though Hope to see you at the next meeting - do you know when it is? xx

[sarahstevenson in reply to Clarebear]

Hi Clare sorrry for delay in reply am on granny duties at the moment - think the next Bristol meeting is next Friday 7th and hope to be there. I look out for Sal's post. have lots to catch up about. xx

[Clarebear in reply to sarahstevenson]

It's my birthday that day so not sure but will try and go! Xx

[SSE106]

Hi how do you get your prescription from GP and NHS ? how did you convince them ? Please share the experience, thanks.

[Clarebear in reply to SSE106]

My GP prescribed it because my endo agreed (very reluctantly) to a trial. When this proved successful my GP took over prescribing it for me. He had seen how bad I was and the massive improvement. I have written lots of posts about this - will try and find them and post the link

[Clarebear in reply to SSE106]

Here they are:

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Hidden in reply to Clarebear]

So after reading on TUK , you persuaded your Private Endo to agree to prescribe you Armour suggesting on a 'named patient basis' (after finding Nutri Thyroid had helped - think I tried it about then too) and your 'great' GP agreed to take over treatment on NHS script (and you pointed the pharmacist in the right direction of sourcing reasonably priced NDT) ? Well done! J

I reckon the levels of vitamins and minerals and their influence on (or production of) hormone levels is significantly important to be investigated thoroughly, yet no doc I've seen (seen a few!) treats lack of vitamins or minerals seriously - in fact it has never even been discussed!

[Clarebear in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Fo r me I think ferritin is key - definitely felt better when it was 98 and was able to tolerate higher dose - no coincidence me thinks

[Hidden in reply to SSE106]

I showed my GP a photocopy of an NHS prescription for Armour which I think helped. Dr Skinner did also suggest it though so think that may have been part of it for me but you could always try the photocopy option anyway.

[Clarebear in reply to Hidden]

Hope you are feeling better DF? Xx

[Hidden in reply to Clarebear]

Tbh not really Clare but thanks for asking my latest post gives a summary of where I'm at now! How are you doing? xx

[Clarebear in reply to Hidden]

Much better now I have reduced armour slightly and taking iron again Sorry you aren't too good. Will have another look at you post xx

[Hidden in reply to Clarebear]

Glad to hear you're noticing an improvement Did the iron help you quite quickly? xx

[Clarebear in reply to Hidden]

Not sure if it was the iron or the small increase in armour as started both at the same time last week...xx

[Hidden in reply to Clarebear]

Ooh I see. Time will tell! Fingers crossed for you xx