Buprenorphine/ Subutex,, Temgesic,CBD, THC , Traumeel injections

[Shumbah]

I can’t not emphasis this enough

Anyone starting Buprenorphine / Subutex

Or the micro dose version Temgesic.

You will not get this advice from your doctors but I urge you to start in this manor.

Buy a pill cutter and nightly cut you sublingual tablet into about 8 /10 tiny little crumbs.

These medications look tiny however they are extremely strong.

I could not believe that my first night after cutting my 2 mg

I took I tiny piece about the size of an 8th of a grain of rice and I did not move for 10 hours. I woke in the same position I lay down in.

To funny my husband got very little sleep as he had to keep checking I was breathing 😆

So you take one crumb if your legs are still irritable in 15 min add another and so on.

Even at this slow pace day 3 I experienced head spins

Day 4 I was perfect.

I simple added a tiny crumb when required until

The desired effect. Most people will adjust quickly others may have issues usually due to rushing the dosing.

If you have the urge to move you need to add a little and so on. There is no need to suffer from RLS symptoms I am just trying to help eliminate side effects for you.

Those who suffer nausea yes Zofram is best

Some people may suffer insomnia this may require altering the time of day you take your Buprenorphine to early in the day or add a sleeping pill.

CBD in conjunction with with Buprenorphine is absolutely amazing I would highly recommend anyone who get access to CBD take is at bedtime even on Buprenorphine it really adds to the quality of sleep.

THC I used for leg pain which I still suffered with for at least 8 months after starting the buprenorphine. THC is brilliant for pain

VERY IMPORTANT if you take THC for pain it must be the correct kind INDICA or any anti spasmodic variety very easy to google this information.

Mine was switched and all of a sudden my RLS was back I though no my Buprenorphine is no longer working my son said Mum

It will be the variety of plant you will be sick for 2 weeks you must change back.

He was right THANK GOD.

I stoped and my buprenorphine worked again.

I believe it takes time for the body to recover from years of no sleep and all the time spent on our feet.

After 6 months I recommend getting your blood pressure checked as it my drop and return to normal as mine did after 16 years of B/P meds I am now on none . Shows what good sleep can do.

Buprenorphine dosing average is .2 mg

Some as low as .02mcg highest I have know in sublingual version is 8 mg

Norspan / Buprenorphine patches start a 5 mg I have know people on 15 mg patches.

Buprenorphine for pain management often starts at about 37 mg so you can see the dose we require is minuscule.

IF YOU ARE PRESCRIBED 2mg Buprenorphine and you find only half a dose works for NOT tell your doctor . Let them think you take the 2 mg.

I take between 1 and 2 depending on how much exercise I do.

Exercise exacerbates my RLS.

Buprenorphine is as hard as hens teeth to get and if you drop one down the sink or accidental take a double dose which I have heard of elderly doing you will be short and they will not give you more.

It is highly regulated like methadone

Handy to have saved a few extra.

So no matter what your dose if you are offered more take it and stash it also in case there was a shortage which I have experienced in Australia with other medications that have not been available during COVID.

MIRALAX

Buprenorphine slows down your gut and some my need to add something.

I know some people who were on 8 mg of buprenorphine for RLS and taking copies mounts of concoctions for their bowels , they were blown away that one dose daily gives a normal bowel movement some people add a swig of coconut oil as I do.

I have checked with several physicians regarding the safety of daily Miralax they all say it is safe daily as it only draws water to the bowel.

Traumeel Injections,cream ,sublingual tablets

Traumeel is a Homeopathic miracle.

A lot of people complain of pain who suffer from RLS.

I have tried Traumeel for varies things from Morton’s Neuroma ,severe muscle pain and facet joint pain , spinal nerve pain, bursitis. I found cortisone injection of no benefit.

I have been treating a bad back since March 2020 my treatments were at the cost of $1850 weekly 2 hours twice a week or 3 days for 1 hour a week it’s a lot of time.

Although the Physio / osteo they would help for a day of so I was never really getting better.

I ordered my Traumeel online as it is not a recognised treatment in Australia unless you are a race horse 😂 and my doctor friend injected across my back and buttocks on Thursday Zero pain by Sunday and still pain free for the first time in 17 months.

This treatment can be done daily for extreme pain or every 3 days or as required for a few weeks

I also have cream and sublingual tablets.

Research shows people who take traumeel orally prior and during spinal

Fusion have a 50 percent faster recovery.

Traumeel has been used in some countries on humans for 60 years.

My first traumeel injection I would fly to NYC twice yearly for 0 days and have 3 injection during that 10 days.

All the above mentioned medications have been my miracle saviours.

Manerva taught me if something has changed take stock.

What has changed maybe you have added another natural medication or an allergy medication.

I can take melatonin others can PRN some not at all we are all different.

The biggest issues I have seen with people switching to Buprenorphine is people still taking DAs , Gabapentin etc you will require a higher dose whilst weaning off and you will require a lot more patience until others RLS Meds are out of your system.

I am personally suspicious of metformin for some people, some people there RLS started shortly after starting metformin and it can cause terrible neuropathic pain which I suffered.

I am NOT suggesting anyone stops their medication this is purely my observation .

Oxycodene is a clean switch to Buprenorphine.

Apologies that I am not always available as some of you who I know more personally will know I have been very unwell fighting a battle.

I could not imagine going through my current journey if was suffering from this fowl disgusting disease.

I will however answer on my better days.

I am an extensive research however please do your own due diligence.

I hope this information helps💚

[Nettles68]

Amazingly informative post Shumbah, thankyou! 🤗

[Madlegs1]

Thanks, Shumbah. So incredibly helpful.!And the point that Manerva made about checking changes in med or lifestyle is extremely important.

[Shumbah in reply to Madlegs1]

Manerva is my angel that sentence I have applied so very often even my doctor is proud of me it is a real problem solver.Recently I was having severe hyperglycaemia nearly unconscious.

So of course there is Manerva in my head what has changed 2 things had but the one it was was a very rare reaction to Motilium I had been recently prescribed. I told my doctor he looked it up and said good detective work. I said god bless Manerva 😇

[erinjee]

Thank you for the detailed information Shumbah. I’m having a weird issue with my RLS and pramipexole/buprenorphine now post surgery. I had to get off the buprenorphine for knee replacement surgery which I did, although probably too fast because I experienced withdrawal issues from it for almost a month. Had to take the pramipexole through surgery- Took the pain meds for about a week and a half and switched off of those and back to buprenorphine. For the life of me, I can’t quite drop that last bit of pramipexole. It’s only .0125 but I’m also taking the whole 2mg of buprenorphine, RLS moves in early if I don’t. Any experience with this? I agree thc (indica)seems to help, sati a strains make RLS awful but I’m stuck on just getting rid of the prami again-and lowering that dosage of buprenorphine.

[Shumbah in reply to erinjee]

Buprenorphine is SUBUTEX Doctors , Surgeons and anesthetiser often confuse it with SUBOXONE.

Subutex does not need to be stopped prior to surgery , totally safe.

I had a 6 hour op whilst on Subutex.

However I had numerous calls from my surgeon and anesthetiser prior to surgery they were totally baffled until I a gave them an email from Dr Glen Brooks from New York who is a practicing anesthetiser.

SUBOXONE MUST be stopped 2 weeks prior due to the NALOXONE which is added.

Suboxone is used to help people who suffer from drug dependence and should never be given to anyone else. Naloxone blocks all pain killers so even under anesthetesic you would still feel the surgery.

I am afraid I do not have experience with your particular problem

However I have heard of others who have and doctors increased Buprenorphine to counter act the medication they are weaning off and then once they have they can reduce the Buprenorphine again.

I am trying to think of the name of someone who may be able to help.

Just wondering is there a reason you want to reduce your Buprenorphine dose as it extremely acceptable ? Is it because you were on less prior to surgery ?

Did they say why you had to stop your Buprenorphine? Or are you on Suboxone?

I would not stress about your Buprenorphine dose.

I have sent someone a message if hear anything I will let you know.

Perhaps do a separate post up to the group I am sure someone will be able to help.

So sorry I am not of much help.

[erinjee in reply to Shumbah]

You’re very helpful thank you!

Yes on subutex, just used to calling it buprenorphine. Because it’s a “half opiate” of sorts, the pain meds-don’t take as they should. I had an arthroscopic surgery in February and wasn’t off of it long enough so after surgery they had to do a nerve block to ward off the pain. This surgery in July was a knee replacement and I stopped taking it 3 weeks prior and all went well with pain management after surgery.

- and yes, my struggle is based on the fact that I was taking less but also because I haven’t been able to get off of the pramipexole - it was so much easier last time to drop it.

Id appreciate any help or insight and I thank you for forwarding.

[Jules1953 in reply to erinjee]

Hello erinjee, I am so sorry to hear that you were forced to go back on the Pramipexole because you were undergoing surgery. I can not understand why you would be told to do this. It just doesn't make any sense. Prior to changing over to using Temgesic (Buprenorphine) to control my RLS I took Sifrol (Pramipexole) for approx 10years.

So I have experienced withdrawing from taking 3.00mg of Pramipexole down to zero.

I spent two years slowly weaning off the Pramipexole and yes the hardest part was getting off the last dosage.

I have also found that having a general anesthetic makes my RLS worse for a few weeks afterwards.

When I got down to 0.125mg Pramipexole I used a pill cutter to cut the tiny tablet in to halves and then quarters. I had not heard about Temgesic at this point in time but I tried oxycodone 5mg .

I had some Endone (oxycodone 5mg) left over from when I had knee replacement surgery some months prior. I discovered that using the oxycodone 5mg helped me while I was weaning off the last low dosage of the Pramipexole.

I then heard about Temgesic through Shumbah on this site.

Temgesic is micro dosages of Buprenorphine and is placed under the tongue and absorbed into the blood stream this way.

Even after finally stopping the Pramipexole it has taken about 6 months for my body to adjust to not having this awful drug in my system.

From my experience it took many many weeks to reduce from 0.125mg Pramipexole down to zero.

So as I mentioned cut into smaller portions and reduce ever so slowly.

I wish you all the best. Kind regards Julie from Western Australia

[Shumbah in reply to Jules1953]

Thank you Jules Im so glad you were able to reach out

I knew you would know .

🌸

[erinjee in reply to Jules1953]

Thank you Jules! I’m working on it now and I’ll keep cutting up the pramipexole as I go. I appreciate you both!!!!

[RLSofManyYears]

When I first started on Temgesic I was so sleep deprived that I took 2mg as the first does. Like you I was completely floored the next day. Totally out of it! Thereafter I stuck to 1mg and my RLS completely disappeared. I was a new man, said my wife. However after about 6 months the RLS gradually returned and so I upped the dose to 2mg and got the usual issues like difficulty going to the loo. So I bumped around cutting the 1mg tablet into two and taking 1.5mg for a couple of months but it still did not help me sleep through the night. So currently I've gone back to Ropinirole in the hope that I can restart the Temgesic again.

[Shumbah in reply to RLSofManyYears]

That is such a tiny dose as Temgesic is microdose version.

I would take

TEMGESIC increase dose until it works.

CBD OIL really adds to depth of sleep .

Miralax order online for bowels

[RLSofManyYears in reply to Shumbah]

I did try CBD oil abou18 months ago but it did not help at all. If there are different versions what is the best one to use?

[Shumbah in reply to RLSofManyYears]

CBD does not help the RLS

If you are on Buprenorphine and your legs are under control it really aids the quality and depth of sleep .

I am in Australia and I have mine beautifully hand made in Califonia if you live in the USA she had a website

What country are u in ?

[Shumbah in reply to RLSofManyYears]

I just put a photo and post up of the brand I use let me know if you don’t see it 🙂

[RLSofManyYears in reply to Shumbah]

I got your photo. I see if I can get it here in Scotland.

[Shumbah in reply to RLSofManyYears]

Would be cheaper if you can get a high quality grade in Scotland,you can tell if the quality is lower as you will need to use more.

If they don’t hit the grade I will take a mouthful straight from the bottle instead of the pipette.

[LotteM in reply to RLSofManyYears]

Rlsofmanyyears, are you indeed on 1-2mg of Temgesic? Temgesic comes usually(?) of tablets of 0.2mg = 200 microgram. To take 2mg you would have to take 10of those tablets. Or do they have tablets of 1 and 2mg in Scotland? I am in The Netherlands, and meds do tend to differ in different countries.

[RLSofManyYears in reply to LotteM]

Ah yes. It's 200microgram per tablet. Sorry about that.

[LotteM in reply to RLSofManyYears]

So how much do you take? One 0.2mg tablet? Or more? I het by on one in the evening, but also need one in the morning to prevent (mild) daytime symptoms. And maybe some miniwithdrawal effects.

[RLSofManyYears in reply to LotteM]

I'm not taking them right now, as I explained in the post, but I took 1 X 200mcg tablet for about 6 months and then 1.5 tablets (300mcg) and occasionally 2 X tablets (= 400mcg). I can't wait to get back on the Temgesic as my current sleep pattern is 1 hour sleep up 1 hour, etc with no sleep during the day.

[Shumbah in reply to LotteM]

That would be the half-life 5 hours Temgesic , I wonder if they would allow you to take more frequent dosing. Only if you need it.

Hopefully Subutex 24 hour half will be available for you soon I take

1 x sublingual.2mg Subutex/ Buprenorphine

[LotteM in reply to Shumbah]

Shumbah, would you mind to share where you got the i for on te different half-lives? I researched a tiny bit, but couldn't find any differences. Only that buprenorphine has a bi-modal (which is kind of two phases) availability or breakdown. According to my info (Dutch pharmaceutical website with pharmokinetic data of medicines) indeed there is a 5-6h half life, with a "terminal" half life of something like 24-36h. I just don't know exactly what the bi-modality entail, and what they mean with "terminal half life".

I assumed it means that the initial peak is halved after 5-6h, but that the final clearance of the bup takes several days. With many other medicines, the final clearance is much fast and the medicine becomes almost u traceable after say 12h.

Oops, very academic stuff.

[Shumbah in reply to LotteM]

I was actually told about the Temgesic half life by doctor at the drug clinic

which is why it would not work well

for people with 24 hour symptoms like me.

I have asked pharmacist they don’t have a clue

[LotteM in reply to Shumbah]

Yeah, weird isn't it. About the pharmacists. I also have close to 24h symptoms, therefore O take one 0.2mg temgesic in the evening and one in the morning. Still a low dose fortunately. Half a pill doesn't work well enough, not during the day and surely not in the evening.

You don't get drowsiness or something like that?

[Shumbah in reply to LotteM]

No Buprenorphine/ Subutex does not make me drowsy it simply stops my legs moving and I take miralax for my bowels.

Some have teething problems when weaning on which I why I did my post regarding the importance of not taking full first dose and going slow it will still work.

[LotteM in reply to Shumbah]

I may be the only one 😢! Or it is all in my head 🤞🏼. I take it over severe RLS, as indeed it completely stops the legs.

[Shumbah in reply to LotteM]

If you are drowsy could it be something else , just wondering with the short half life. Perhaps some PTSD can effect people who have really suffered and the COVID restrictions.

My first 6 months I seriously slept in everyday and I mean 10 am or later like lunchtime so maybe I did not notice because I was just dead.

Many years ago a very senior psychiatrist told me that people with Bipolar who also do not sleep in it’s severe mania cycle when they are on the right medication will sleep for 6 months he said the body will DEMAND pay back for all the years of lack of sleep.

This was actually true in my ex-husbands case.

This could simply be the case.

[erinjee in reply to LotteM]

You are not the only one LotteM. It’s been my problem as well. Buprenorphine works to lessen RLS for sure but I’m tired all the time. I too suffer for the whole 24 hour day-arms and legs

[RLSofManyYears in reply to Shumbah]

I asked my doctor's surgery about how long it takes for Temgesic to completely wash out of one's body but they said I'd have to ask a pharmacist. So I talked to two pharmacists and they both said that the half-life was about 5 hours (it actually depends on how well your liver changes the Temgesic into whatever it is that actually does the business - I've forgotten!). So that agrees with Shumbah's findings. Consequently your body should be completely free of it within 2-3 days.

[Shumbah in reply to LotteM]

Hey Lotte I just found something

Which says 2 / 5 hour

I don’t recall if I have your email address send it to me and I forward it to you .

Email address deleted for your own security - Kaarina

[Shumbah in reply to Shumbah]

medicines.org.uk/emc/produc...

[LotteM in reply to Shumbah]

I have. Shall send you email again for you to reply to.

[Shumbah in reply to RLSofManyYears]

😊

[erinjee in reply to RLSofManyYears]

Sounds like we get caught in the same puzzle. Sleeping through the night and waking up to be groggy snd slow because of the buprenorphine isn’t very helpful on the one hand but it is surely better than suffering through the night with RLS. Does methadone suffer the same next day hangover? It’s been awhile since I’ve tried the CBD oil but I’ve def tried THC 1:1 and it does help extend the time DOWN time some for me.

[Jules1953 in reply to RLSofManyYears]

Temgesic comes in micrograms.1 temgesic (2mcg) is equivalent to 0.2mg