ADCAL d3: Hi Everyone, what are your thoughts on... - PMRGCAuk

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ADCAL d3

bakingD
bakingD
68 Replies

Hi Everyone,

what are your thoughts on ADCAL D3 supplement, my rheumatologist wants me to start on it, he says given my young age (56) and being on steroids, I am due a DEXA scan soon- am already taking vitamin D anyway as I always do in the winter months, and I eat a lot of calcium rich foods- any thoughts??thanks

68 Replies
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PMRpro
PMRproModerator

Far preferable to alendronic acid!! Studies showed that giving calcium and vit D supplements reduced the risk of developing osteoporosis when on pred. In over 7 years on pred my BND as measured by dexascan barely changed. Have you had your vit D level checked? It is often low in autoimmune disorders - mine wasn't drastically low but it only remains up with supplements, summer or winter and I live in Italy at a latitude we should be able to make vit D all year. I obviously don't!

The idea of the supplements is to make sure there is a lot of calcium sloshing around since pred makes you lose calcium through the kidneys. There is a balance to be achieved though - too much calcium can lead to cystitis if you get dehydrated.

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bakingD
bakingD
in reply to PMRpro

Hi thanks for the very quick response esp at this time of year!!no haven't had my vit D level checked but live in uk and Oncologists advise us all to take it anyway between Nov and March to held reduce breast cancer risk( am an Oncology nurse!)so think it won't be a bad idea to add the calcium as well

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to bakingD

Pred suppresses vit D - so it is definitely worth getting it checked...

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Daisychain12

Please I beg you take K2. It stops calcium clogging up arteries and puts it in the bones where it’s needed cxxx

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Marijo1951

I second that. I'd been taking calcium and vitamin D supplements for more than a year before I found this out. As it's an established and well-known fact, why isn't K2 automatically prescribed at the same time as calcium supplements? We need the bloody stuff in our bones, but it does us a lot of harm if it builds up in our arteries.

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Daisychain12

It’s crazy isn’t it Marijo. I’ve just found an Australian brand of K2 and D3 but they are hard to find. Xxxxx

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Marijo1951

For UK people, there's Nature's Best Osteoguard which I've started taking rather than my prescribed calcium/vitamin D supplement - expensive compared with my free prescriptions, but there you go...

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RunRabbitRun

Thanks for this Mariho1951, I've been doing lots of research and decided the same. I'm dropping the adcal and trying Nature's Best Osteguard Ultra. Calcium, VitaminD, Magnesium and K2. The D3 is the same amount as in Adcal but the calcium is less so I will make that up within my diet, the bonus for me will be the K2.

:)

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GerriMc
GerriMc
in reply to Marijo1951

I’ve just looked at the Nature’s Best Osteoguard and it says it contains K1.

I’ve read that it’s actually K2 that we need for this combination, but this brand doesn’t contain that.

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GerriMc
GerriMc
in reply to GerriMc

Osterguard Ingredients:

Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Anti-caking Agents (Silicon Dioxide & Magnesium Stearate), Tablet Coating (Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Glycerine), Crosslinked Cellulose Gum, Stearic Acid, Boron (Sodium Borate), Vitamin D3, Vitamin K1.

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Marijo1951
Marijo1951
in reply to GerriMc

Oh dear, silly me! I'll have to think again...

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Marijo1951

I've checked Nature's Best website and their new product Osteoguard Ultra does contain Vitamin K2.

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GerriMc
GerriMc
in reply to Marijo1951

That makes more sense. Don’t know why they’d use K1 at all though, it’s well documented that it’s K2 that does the business.

Good that it’s all together in the Ultra version. I seem to be swallowing tablets all day! 😁

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Marijo1951
Marijo1951
in reply to GerriMc

I might email them to ask why they didn't use K2 in the first place.

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Nuff1

OH was discharged from Assessment Unit mid-June (diagnosed PMR/GCA) on Pred and Calcichew-D3 Forte, dexascan late October showed bones to be OK. Alendronic Acid had been suggested but he said he would not take it unless scan showed it to be necessary.

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Christophene47

Unless you get a lot of sun, D3 helps the bones along with calcium; it also helps depression or prevents depression. However D3 is one of those vitamins that can cause toxicity if used in too high a dose. I am not sure what is the upward limit, but maybe someone else knows.

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Daisychain12

Oh really??? I had no idea!!!! Thank you

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HeronNS

I think most people would find it hard to overdose on Vitamin D. Just don't take mega doses, It is wise to have your level checked, however. Normally your body will only activate what it needs, We don't get poisoned by the sun although it provides us with many times more Vitamin D than a regular supplement. Like anything else, take in moderation!

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Daisychain12

A gp at our local surgery confided in me that he takes five times the recommended dose!!!!!

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Daisychain12

The recommended dose being?????? If it is the amount in AdCal - I don't blame him as that is well below what you really need.

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Daisychain12
Daisychain12
in reply to PMRpro

Yes he doesn’t seem bad on it! What do you take PMRpro? Xxc

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Daisychain12

One of the local versions of Adcal, called Ideos, which has the standard 400 IU per tablet. When I remember. Plus I have some OTC high dose tablets. And every so often my GP gives me a course of very high dose vit D. Until last year I was religious about taking them all - but the calcium was causing problems and I slacked off a bit.

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Daisychain12
Daisychain12
in reply to PMRpro

Ideos lol. Bit unfortunate!! What problems did you get??? You are really doing so well xxxx

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Daisychain12

Cystitis.

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SheffieldJane

I found it to be a bladder irritant, increasingly, so now I just have vit D. I have had 2 good Dexa scans in 3 years and have avoided Alendronic Acid and it’s like.

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bakingD

thanks I just don't want to complicate things with too many tablets as I get heartburn so easily- am managing really well with liquid vitamin D which is ok on my stomach whereas tablets make me have heartburn, so think I will carry on with that and have a v high calcium rich diet

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Daisychain12

Jane I’m delighted for you about the Dexa. Whatever you are doing is working. Xxxx. How is life at your place? Xxx

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SheffieldJane

Drinking milk and eating cheese and currently not bored yet of arranging toys in a stimulating way from a great scattered heap, seeking and finding pieces of Lego and toy parts, re- hanging ornaments on my Christmas trees, listening to the confidences of a 4 year old and teaching a two year old to string clearer sentences.

I am constantly moving and distracted. Good for us I think. Happy in the moment.

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Daisychain12

I think of you every day xxx

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Lonsdalelass

I stopped Adcal a couple of weeks ago on Dr's suggestion as I was getting heartburn, and I have no more heartburn so it must have been the Adcal I reckon. My Dr went through my diet with me and thinks I'm getting enough calcium, so I just take the Vit D3 now. I also take K2, but I have just read a Dr's comment in a magazine that says Vit K stops us absorbing Vit D. Any opinions anyone?

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Hildalew

When I was prescribed Adcal-D3 I took a good look at the ingredients of the tablets and was amazed and annoyed by the addition of so many seemingly superfluous things - sucrose, sodium saccharin, xylitol, 'Tutti-Frutti' flavouring, etc etc. Could it be that something in there is what caused your heartburn?

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Lonsdalelass

Don't know, but am just pleased my heartburn has subsided, for now at least.

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HeronNS

That's an interesting comment re Vitamin D and Vitamin K and I would like to see the reference. vitamindcouncil.org/the-syn...

We are, of course, referring to Vitamin K2 for bone health, not Vitamin K1, although the article I link somewhat confusingly seems to be talking about them both.

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Lonsdalelass

Thanks for the article HeronNS, it's reassuring. I don't think the comments I had read were very reliable after now reading this.

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bakingD

Sounds good to me- I think the best way is to try to get enough calcium from diet- everybody needs vit D supplements nov-march in uk as we don't get enough sunlight

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Daisychain12

I really don’t think so but who knows. I think natural sunlight is the best and even on a cloudy cool day you can get vit d from the sun. I’ve never heard of any issues with absorbing d. I will do some squirrelsing. I must find out!! Xxx

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Stifffingers

I was given this as part of my medication .

Thought this was standard.Been taking it since Sept. can’t see it can do any harm , it’s only a supplement.

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Daisychain12

Yeah I know for sure it’s very important I have great faith in it after listening to a professor at Melbourne ‘s Baker Institute talk passionately about k2 for bone health and keeping arteries unblocked. But then again new research shows up things all the time xxxxxx. How are you!?

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Daisychain12

You mean k2 right?

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RunRabbitRun

I saw my GP last week, we got to talking about Adcal. He said the latest research showed it didn't really do much good. He threw his hands up in despair and said "I don't know where that leaves us, I need to read up more about it now".

What hope is there when things constantly change?

What's K2? I'd be linterested to know more - thank you :) edit to add that a bit of googling found me the answers :)

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Daisychain12

Wow if he’s throwing up his hands how does he think the poor patients feel!!! 🧗🏼‍♀️ That’s meant to be a picture of us “ stuck between a rock and a hard place”. I don’t know about Adcal but k2 is just a vitamin k subset. It works by stopping calcium particles sticking to the artery walls and helps to get it into the bones where it’s needed. Xxx

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HeronNS

This is a reasonably good description. healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

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RunRabbitRun

Thanks for the link HeronNS. I agree Daisychain12 it does feel like we are between a rock and a hard place. :(

I'm gutted to read of the risks of calcium settling in the arteries. As an impressionable 14 year old I saw my grandfather suffer and later die from cardio-vascular disease, including hardening of the arteries. It made me find out how to look after myself and I've tried to lead a healthy lifestyle and until PMR had been on no medication and was a runner. That's all gone now.

Out of my 3 current medications (omeprazole, prednisolone, adcal-D3) the adcal-D3 was the one I cared least about thinking it nothing but vitamins and minerals. To now find this risk is quite upsetting and I can't do anything until after new year, then I will try to find some K2 supplements.

This forum is great for the information your doctor's don't share.

Merry Christmas all and if you don't celebrate Christmas then have a very happy week xx

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Daisychain12

Oh darling please don’t let it spoil Christmas. I’m sure that short term it’s fine. Probably plenty of people never get problems but the research is strong that K2 helps put the calcium where we want it. Remember modern medicine has made progress since your poor grandad. It will be fine xxxx

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RunRabbitRun

Thank you. I've been taking adcal for 2 years now, my blood pressure is always normal so hopefully no damage done :)

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Daisychain12

Absolutely! We just try to do what we can and always remember that worry is worse than any calcium in the arteries You are sensible and I am sure you will be fine xxxx

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HeronNS

Do you need the PPI? Docs don't tell us but it's probably more of a risk for bone thinning than low dose pred.

Research has shown that yoghurt helps us absorb our calcium, too.

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RunRabbitRun

Well thereby hangs a tale! Several months ago I started getting stomach upsets, very similar to being on lanzaprazole (I was switched to omeprazole because of it), I spoke to one of the doctors on the phone and she said I could probably drop the omeprazole as I'm on such a low dose of pred. When I saw my regular doc he wasn't too happy, saying I should really be taking it but to see how I got on and go back on if I got any problems.

2 weeks on and I was fine taking Kefir in the morning and oats for breakfast followed by pred, then one evening felt quite nauseous, this carried on for a few days with acid getting worse. I went back on and immediately got better.

Month later decided to try again. Same thing happened fine for 2 weeks then bad again so back on :(

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HeronNS

I know the older medication, ranitidine, isn't supposed to have the same problems re osteoporosis as the PPIs and many if not most people find it as effective. But I can't really say myself as I'm fine just taking pred with breakfast. :)

And I've also read up that one has to wean off the PPIs as you can get rebound acid production.

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RunRabbitRun

Yes I'd read about rebound and asked doc but she said it would be fine and to use gaviscon if I had any problems. First time I was on holiday and didn't want to spoil it, second time I thought I wouldn't want to spoil Christmas if it continued. I think I will have another go in new year when nothing is happening and wean off slowly. :)

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HeronNS

This is kind of interesting, but hopefully you'll hear from people who have had success with one or other of these: uniprix.com/en/tips/1/healt...

Years ago I had a bad reaction to a medication (naproxen) and the treatment suggested was ranitidine (Zantac) which like naproxen was still a prescription med at the time, and also Tums for short term instant relief. In subsequent years I've had occasion to use both occasionally, although not for a very long time now. The ranitidine, if I remember correctly, was to be taken something like once or twice a day, the Tums were only for immediate relief of pain or discomfort. Quite soon I was well enough not to need either on a regular basis. (And I never took naproxen (Aleve) again!)

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to RunRabbitRun

It never ceases to amaze me how little some doctors know about PPIs...

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MhairiP

I thought this might be of interest:

europepmc.org/abstract/med/...

Apparently AdCal contains calcium carbonate, which is less easily absorbed than calcium citrate. I now have the dilemma of whether to take AdCal or another (every expensive!) supplement which contains calcium citrate!

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Lonsdalelass

I also read that, in the"Your Bones.... " book.

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Daisychain12

Darling see what I just wrote above xxxx. Or below. To Mhairi xxxx

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HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to MhairiP

I think taking a calcium carbonate supplement with food will help both absorption and tolerance. But it is supposed to be the hardest form of calcium for us to absorb. Only ubiquitous because it's so cheap.

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Daisychain12

Heron darling glad to see you. Did you see what I wrote about hummus? Do you agree with dietary calcium ? What do you eat darling?? Xxxx

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Daisychain12

Darling I take loads of hummus on veggies every day. I buy top quality without cheap oil fillers. The chick peas and sesame seeds are a wonderful source of highly digestible calcium. I believe in eating the best quality food I can afford and I bet there are loads of foods you could eat to bump up. On the HealthUnlocked homepage it says “browse communities”. There is a BONE HEALTH one. I’ve joined it and it’s FABULOUS XXXX

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MhairiP

Thank you - I'll search for the bone health community. I eat a lot of calcium - tahini, spirulina, chia seeds, dark green leafy veg, tofu, dried fruit (I'm vegan so don't eat dairy). Despite my calcium intake I have osteoporosis; recently diagnosed; have gradually come round to accept that I will have to take alendronic acid - doc's appointment early Jan to get prescription. :-(

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Daisychain12

Good luck darling. Remember that lots of people get great help from those meds. A minority have problems xxxx

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MamaBeagle

I make my own hummus - tin drained chick peas/garlic/lemon juice. Stick all that in the food processor, start it spinning or whatever the technical term is for it churning the stuff inside. Immediately start drizzling in best olive oil and let it whizz until you get the texture you want- yum yum and easy peasy. Oh and add salt to taste or not whatever your salt religion is!

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MamaBeagle

Pred head! Forgot to say add to the mix tahini - not essential but authentic - not too much though as it will make the hummus bitter tasting.

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Daisychain12

Might do a new thread re foods. Hope no one wants to kick my bottom for posting too much xxxx

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RunRabbitRun

Why would we do that? You post so much useful info which makes sense, not doctors jargon :)

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Daisychain12

That’s kind of you!! I feel that if I blather on someone somewhere will be going through it too. If I help one person it’s worth it xx.

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MamaBeagle

Never!!

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MamaBeagle

The NEVER was in response to the kick your bottom.......never lovely girl xx

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MamaBeagle

I get my D3 and K2 from ebay uk........I get my supplements either from ebay/Amazon/or e vitamins,,,,,,,,,after ordering I sometimes find they are coming from the USA! So allow plenty of time for delivery so to maintain a supply chain! And whatever any studies say I'm finding they do make a difference - a positive one. Wishing a Merry and Stress free Christmas to all xx

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