The topic of sleep crops up on here often, so this article caught my attention. I read somewhere that one of the contributory reasons Pred wrecks our sleep patterns is because it affects melatonin levels and that gets mentioned a few times in this article, and including yet another good reason to quit the sugar/carbs. Tea surprised me as traditional wisdom says to ditch the caffeine but then I've never felt it affected me and sometimes if I can't sleep I get up and have a cuppa and that does the trick
Foods to help sleep?: The topic of sleep crops up... - PMRGCAuk
Foods to help sleep?
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tangocharlie
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I think eating properly does help sleep although steroids definitely try and stop you sleeping!! I notice they suggest tomatoes, I really cut back on them as I had heard that we should cut back on any nightshade plants.
I'm an avid tomato fan... didn't reduce them at all during GCA days...whether it made any difference difficult to say... but apart from the first few months on silly doses of Pred, my sleep was good.
Think age has more to do with lack of sleep as anything.. for some.. and others it's not being able to switch off from thinking too deeply - never been an issue for me [thinking that is!] .. certainly not the "Sleep of the righteous"...
I must admit I like tomatoes too! I definitely think PMR and/or steroids affected my sleep badly.
They do, famous side effects. But why i still don't know cos the problem is the same for more even when I was on eon low doses of Pred.
Adrenal insufficiency ALSO causes impaired sleep.
That would make sense as your electrolyte balance would be out of kilter. I wonder if there's any research on taking magnesium and potassium to help both sleep and adrenals?
Magnesium is said to help sleep. Not sure about potassium though.
I was thinking that's in the bananas people are recommending
They have a decent amount of magnesium too. But just had a look - low potassium is associated with poor sleep but potassium is regulated in a tight range since too little and too much is dangerous and it is a risky thing to take too much at a go. Not something to take a lot of in the hope you will sleep better.
I was thinking more along the lines of a bit of banana and milk or yoghurt before bedtime. Not for me though, can't stand bananas these days and I can't eat yoghurt either.
I always used to have a banana and yogurt when taking my Pred around 02:00ish, not sure it ever helped with sleep though. Neither of which, I guess, helps you!!!
So does that mean if you have too much potassium your body will just dump it? Can you OD on bananas and sultanas? Hey sounds like a song
It should do - but if you have renal problems it may not. I'm not sure what happens in adrenal insufficiency secondary to steroid use - you can be hyperkalaemic in Addisions. But if you eat loads of potassium, then you could develop a problem,
If I take magnesium tablets it does seem to help actually. Might help with the back muscles too maybe
I took magnesium to help with sleep and it did absolutely nothing. I now take it as part of a D3/calcium/K2 supplement but it still does nothing for sleep.
I don’t take a potassium supplement because I do take a number of blood pressure meds and there seem to be contraindications with supplements. I do find it easy to get enough potassium from foods - or so my tracker tells me.
I have never slept well, however, but now find I can’t really fall asleep before 2-3am most nights.
What might be working - a bit - is camomile tea.
Medications for high blood pressure (ACE inhibitors) interacts with POTASSIUM. Some medications for high blood pressure can increase potassium levels. Taking potassium supplements along with some medications for high blood pressure might cause too much potassium in the body.
A couple of years ago at my annual review [on Candesartan for hbp] my potassium levels were a bit high, GP had a bit of a panic - so I cut out bananas, retested a month later and all fine. Shame really as I like bananas… but needs must.
Yeah, serum potassium is fine for me so far. I do try to keep the bananas to a minimum though - so much sugar. Oddly, fruits and veg highest in potassium are my favourites: cantaloupe, salmon, spinach, sweet potatoes, parsnips,avocado, cashews…
Such is life….🤨
My lifelong intermittent insomnia appears to have been mostly cured by taking a calcium supplement with a small helping of plain yoghurt a little while before bedtime. This has been true since early days on pred, starting 2015. (Yes, my PMR is in recession so no pred for PMR any more! But I still take the calcium.) If you try this, take a form which is relatively easily absorbed, not calcium carbonate but perhaps calcium citrate or calcium hydroxyapatite nd a dose no larger than 300 or 400 mg.
Also avoid screen time.
I think distracting your overactive mind whether by counting sheep or meditation or writing a journal and gratitude diary helps, it certainly does me. I've always been an Owl and my brain works best at night, but that doesn't fit well with the timetables of the rest of the world. I've ready MANY books on sleep and the overriding theme is that worrying about not sleeping makes things worse
Naming all 50 US states in alphabetical order is an effective fall asleep from boredom tactic. 
Don’t make that widely known.. others wise a certain person might change the names and also charge you a tariff for the privilege!
I definently find a cup of tea helps if I wake in the middle of the night. Weak and warm, not hot, drink quickly, listen to a Clare Balding 15 minute walk on BBC sounds on my iPad and am asleep before the end!
Apparently the nightshade thing isn't true after all. Sure I read or heard it on a Zoe podcast. Who knows eh?
Everything is slowly killing us!
Especially time!!!! Can stop that. But we have to make room for others on our planet. Why are are we living to 100+ for those in Saga Magazine it's quite ok however......
funny thing with me, I never had any sleep issues even on the 60mg dose.
Lucky you!
When I can’t sleep I rub some melatonin oil on my temples and below my belly button ( as per the instructions) … works a treat.
Never heard of it - where do you get it from please?
If you Google ESI Melatonin drops you can order online. I’ve bought some at the pharmacy in Spain as sold over the counter abroad.
I went to an NHS sleep workshop recently. In view of the melatonin problem, caused by blue light in the evening, one of the suggestions was Cooloo blue light blocking glasses (£7.99) which reduce the amount of blue light going into your eyes. You wear them for a couple of hours before bed. My sleep has improved a bit, but I cannot promise it is down to the glasses.
Also, the spot on your retina that is affected by the blue light is down low in your eye, so if you keep all lighting at a low position, eg a bedside lamp on the floor, then your eye does not detect it.
research published about a year ago and published in one of the Nature journals cast doubt on the effects of blue light. Paper is here: nature.com/articles/s41562-...
I’ve been putting my interrupted sleep down to Pred as it seems to be a recognised side effect. Then responding to someone who was putting everything down to Pred rather than considering it might be the illness I realised that when I had a previous autoimmune condition I hardly slept for the six weeks prior to receiving Pred and if I did never for more than a couple of hours at a time. So is it now the Pred or something relating to GCA/LVV? What I found most surprising was when fatigue was my main symptom I still could not have a good long sleep. With that behind me and now down to 10mg once I get to bed (usually gone midnight as I’m too wide awake before) I am sleeping for much longer stretches now. Interestingly, for the last 12 months my husband has had real difficulty getting back off to sleep after waking in the early hours ( and he doesn’t have any illness or drugs) so perhaps after all it is just an age thing that maybe in my case got triggered along with my other illness symptoms. Who knows? And I do confess to eating tomatoes most days. Life is full of so many mysteries 🤪
A bit of all of the above suspect seems to affect us more as we age. But is that because we have more on our minds? A friend who's a GP says all old people come asking for sleeping tablets and say they don't care if they do get addicted, they'll sign a waver saying they won't sue.
Pumpkin seeds are meant to help,just before bedtime.Mind you,I still wake up a LOT so guess they ain’t that good a remedy!xx😳💐😜
this is interesting. When I get a decent nights sleep I mark it as a bonus (because it’s so rare). My wife & I have been drinking Roobios tea for several years now. It’s caffeine free & has a much simpler cleaner taste. We do like our coffee but only drink decaf after lunchtime.
The melatonin is interesting.
The 7yr old we foster has had a lot of trouble getting to sleep because his mind races a lot when he lies down. Recently a paediatrician prescribed melatonin for him & it was a game changer. We give him a 2mg tablet after he’s had dinner & within half an hour he’s ready for bed & usually sleeps all night.
(It hasn’t stopped him bouncing on top of me at 6am though 😆)
Interestingly the Principal of the school he attends, confided that he often takes melatonin to get to sleep. 😳
Obviously if you’re in the UK you can only get melatonin on prescription & I understand there are issues with overuse in the US, where it’s available over the counter.
It’s not recommended for use with Pred either, as it may decrease the effectiveness of the drug.
There have been a number of posts about it over the years.
Ah, ok That's interesting. I wasn't about to try. I just listen to a podcast until I get drowsy again
Probably the best way.. 😊
My husband and I use a Magnesium spray on our forearms just before bed. It works wonders! I can recommend the spray from Harrogate organic. Quite expensive but lasts a long time and definitely worth it.
it’s an interesting article tango Charlie. It’s all trial and error with everything, isn’t it.
It’s interesting about the bread though. I might have to have a go at making a sourdough loaf. I need more practice at my bread making 😂
Always good to have a new hobby! 😂
Ha, breadmaking features down my list of hobbies though😂
Easy to do with a good bread making machine, I make it regularly at home and it tastes far better than the bought variety.
Definitely! None of those nasty additives either.
I just need to master the paddle not getting stuck in the bread! I’ve tried oiling it but it must be a stubborn dough 🤣
Interesting. I don't get that problem. Not tried it with Soughdough but for all the other types I make I always add an egg to the mix as part of the liquid. It does make a better taste.
I had this problem and put it down to the fact the bread machine had had too many birthdays. Bought a new paddle and no more sticking. For a small bit of metal, it wasn't cheap but cheaper than a whole new machine.
If I can't get to sleep I have a banana and that really helps.
I did a little research on this because I am plagued by insomnia.My insomnia, sadly, won't ever be helped by anything because it's origins are autonomic , my tachycardia and low night time blood pressure keep me awake.
But for others science backed research has shown that traditional remedies are actually the best particularly for those over 60 and those in cardiac recovery.
Now I know those whom may be choosing very low carb diets may be aghast at the thought , but the studies by the Sleep Foundation and others have proved that the Old Wives Tale of a drink of warm cows milk ( semi skimmed or full fat cows milk sweetened with a little honey got the best results) is actually the best option for inducing people to go to sleep more quickly, and to reduce night time waking and promote longer periods of deep sleep.
The studies were done on people over 60 and on patients in hospital recovery.
The reasons are the amount of Tryptophan and Melatonin found in cows milk. Not that any of us can get hold of it but apparently cows milked at night ( Night or Moon Milk) is the best of all because it can contain three times the melatonin of milk from day milked cows.
If you choose non dairy , or are lactose intolerant, the non dairy options are not as effective because they don't contain the animal proteins but almond or oat milk are the better options.
Interestingly, a glass of warm milk before bed has also been tested to produce better muscle recovery after exercise and it can also help to improve weight loss because of the effect on your basal metabolic rate , causing an increase in calorie burned the morning after this sleep inducing blast from the past. Milk in the hour before bedtime also helped improve mood for those with various mental health issues. The calcium increase was also good for bones. Magnesium and Zinc also helped reduce nighttime muscle pains.
People whom also drank fermented animal milk products for three weeks during the day also showed a statistically significant improvement in falling to sleep quicker and for longer periods.
So sometimes Grandmas Cures are the best , and so it is probably worth saving some of your daily carb intake for this old fashioned remedy.
Interesting, thanks. Full fat milk is actually lower carb than semi skimmed. Cream is no carb. Apart from Elmlea which is a processed monstrosity
Then there is Kefir an acquired taste not for the likes of you TC
LOL defo not. I bought a load of that from the Chuckling goat people cos I thought it'd my do my guts good but oh no ...... My prolbem is a can't eat al the things tat are supposed to be good for you like pickled and fermented things, so how the heck am I supposed to boost my guts? Keto is going to be the next thing to try, right after Easter, on it 100%
That’s so interesting. And oddly, ChatGPT recommended something it kept calling “moon milk” and I didn’t bother to ask why:
Warm “Moon Milk” with Dark Chocolate, Nut Butter and Cinnamon - Supports sleep via warm liquid, magnesium in chocolate, tryptophan in nut butter.
The term " Moon Milk" has been stolen by the alternative health market so the one ChatGPT has probably picked up on is the type people make it buy made with turmeric spices and other stuff rather than the one naturally produced by cows. There are loads of recipes out there but they aren't necessarily anymore effective than basic milk and honey , or milk with a little cocoa and honey.I'm on quite a few forum groups and lately I can say that one of the most important things I've learned to help my health is never to rely on ChatGPT ( or for your general knowledge for that matter) . Just like Dr.Google it quickly turns out a lot of faulty medical advice , usually because it's algorithm is set to pick out key words from the questions you have and then search for them in the most read information on the search engine. Sadly , that means that people are getting bad information it what appears to be an AI package.
As , you can see although some nut butters contain tryptophan it's less than animal milk and isn't needed.
Having too much sugar before bed can also cause you to stay awake or wake up when your sugar level drops.
Nut butters can be quite good during the day in a smoothie or with breakfast or lunch , especially if you find it hard to digest nuts for certain health reasons.
That’s very interesting, thanks for sharing. I’m a veggie so I’m pleased to see the recommendations for lots of legumes, seeds and nuts, and, oh joy, sourdough bread!
My problem is rarely that I can’t get to sleep, but rather that I wake up to go to the loo then can’t get back to sleep. So the tea is definitely not for me. I find I have to avoid very spicy foods like chillies but, strangely, curries are ok. Probably due to the capsicum in the chilli which is a stimulant.
We may all respond differently though! 🙂
When i asked my bladder consultant how often people generally wake in the night to wee she said once. But since she put me on Cimetidine for my bladder pain syndrome (which is triggered by certain foods that are high histamine) i usually sleep through. It's the getting to sleep that is the problem for me
Oh right, that’s interesting. Once is usually enough for me. I tried cutting back on liquids after 6pm but then I wake up dying of thirst, can’t win. Does the Cimetidine help with the pain?
Yes it's miraculous keeping all my allergies under control as well as the bladder
Whilst in a bed and breakfast in the Lakes there was a small bottle of Feather and Down 'sleep' pillow spray. I always sleep badly when away but used this and out like a light. Am now on my second 100ml spray. As well as smelling fabulous I definitely think it helps me and very rarely do I not drop off to sleep immediately. Not to say that sometimes I don't wake up in the early hours but would recommend trying.
ta. I'm allergic to just abou every scent on the planet so prolly not for me. Glad it works for you though and hope others read this
Yes, different things fit different people.
I have BOTOX in my bladder as it just fell to bits after 2 kids hysterectomy and a prolapse. Works great but I only sleep 2 hours at a time due to OA waking me up these days.
OA and the OH eh? My dad only sleep for a couple of hours at a time due to prostate I guess, but he seems fine on it at the ripe old age of 90. Hope you gt your back sorted so you can have anoher holiday soon x
Some sleep well some too much others really not good at all. I haven't slept well since my first son was born when my whole life changed.
I agree. A cup of tea calms the nerves and for me, a ritual before bed. A little brandy on the side if I feel naughty.
A good article. I would be interested in doing more research on the melatonin as my pharmacist said melatonin supplements were contra-indicated with pred.
I'd like ot know more as if Pred affects the balance of Melatonin then maybe perhaps we could do somethng to balance it somehow? I wonder if there is a world expert pharmacist on Pred out there could come and tell us all about it. All these different hormones interacting together I doubt anyone knows
Well, I slept like a baby last night. A glorious 10 hours of zizzing. I was stiff as a board when I got out of bed and when I went to take my pred, I had forgotten to take my dose yesterday. That answers one question. 🤣🤣🤣
I gave up worrying about sleep, or not sleeping, many years ago. With my OA making finding a comfortable position in bed problematic after a short time, I decided that tossing, turning and worrying about not sleeping was causing more stress than just accepting it. Upside of that was that taking Pred early in the morning was never a problem. I get up, wander around, read, watch the TV or listen to the radio. Reclining chair enables me to get legs, body in a more comfortable place so often sleep downstairs. Probably need to get one if those posh fully adjustable beds.
I have one - we were going to replace our old one when hubby was ill, but never got around to it. I did change it after he died.. and got a small double - so not split mattresses like a normal double [and like you for OA]. I did use it a lot pre and post replacements, but not used in anger much recently - except when changing sheets, makes it so much easier😊
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