Where to buy supplies

[FancyPants54]

I've had lots of helpful links to information etc in another post. But I'm still none the wiser on what and where to buy to self-inject. I have my first ever B12 jab booked for Monday afternoon at a beauty clinic but then I will want to continue myself.

I already self-manage hypothyroidism (for which I have had to learn so much I could write a useful book) and I manage my mum's medication and care. I seem to have hit a wall with B12. I just don't have the energy left to choose.

I need a link to buy and a helpful shove as in "buy this one" and a link to needles and syringes please, again "buy these and you won't go wrong". I'm keen on the least painful way of injecting, whatever that is. So I will need a thin needle. I'm not needle phobic, but I'm not exactly happy with them either. I use a pen dispenser for a medication called Victoza. That has a 32g 4mm needle attached, so I know I can deal with needles to some extent. I admit I'm scared of how far in we seem to have to go for B12.

I'm not sure whether IM or SC would be best for me.

Thanks in advance. And sorry to keep asking similar questions. I need my hand holding to get me started with this. It's all come as a bit of a shock really as I thought with high blood levels due to supplementing, I must be OK. But apparently not and the neuropathy I suffer now is bad. I did a few hours of gardening yesterday afternoon and barely slept with the various pains in joints and muscles and my feet were horribly painful and stinging. Today I feel like I got run over by a bulldozer and yet I have as much to do again in the garden as I did yesterday!

[Angie10116]

can I ask how you know you have a b12 deficiency? Have you had a blood test? If so the doctor surgery should provide these injections free of charge. You have a few and then you don’t need them for a few years.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Angie10116]

I'm going to experiment with SI because my GP is very unlikely to give me them. My blood levels of B12 can be forced high with heavy supplementing, but I have all the symptoms of neuropathy, getting steadily worse quite quickly now and the terrible fatigue and muscle weakness/pain and joint pain. I have balance issues and stiffness and pins and needles....

If I need this stuff I will find out by using it. Then I will tackle the GP if I feel strong enough.

[Angie10116 in reply to FancyPants54]

Awh I’m very sorry to hear that you’re suffering just a thought. Is there anyway it’s not b12? If your blood levels are high, do you think it could be something else?or maybe the b12 is catching up in your system and needs some time to work? Apologies if you don’t resonate with any of these

[FancyPants54 in reply to Angie10116]

I have been struggling with hypothyroidism for years. The medications don't help me much. But I know I need good levels of iron, B12, ferritin, vitamin D and magnesium to help the medications work.

I have learned here, on this board, that there is such a thing as functional B12 deficiency where there is plenty in the blood but it's not getting to the cells. I have to experiment with this to eliminate it or prove it one way or another. My GP gave up on me years ago. I'm on my own. I steadily work through different scenarios and eliminate them. B12 is next on the list. Especially as I have such a lot of neurological problems, all perfectly evenly distributed between left and right sides.

[Angie10116 in reply to FancyPants54]

Ugh I’m sorry, GP nowadays are useless. If you can afford a consultation with a private endo, (not that you should even have to consider it) then that’s what I’d suggest. Or even find a new go if possible. They’re way more likely to take you seriously and to treat you with t3 if needed. I wish you the best of luck on your journey ! Please try to stay positive.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Angie10116]

I have a private endo and I have used T3 alone, with T4 and now on NDT. All those bases are covered. None of them give me the energy they should. The endo doesn't think I have a B12 issue because of the blood levels. He's not heard of functional B12 deficiency obviously, but he's a diabetes specialist with a thyroid interest on the side.

I am not afraid of going it alone. I've been doing it for years. B12 experimentation is where I'm going next. I don't need a doctor to help. If I find B12 does help me I will go and talk to the GP to see if I can get any that route. But I doubt it. Also, the prescription for neuropathy issues is EOD until symptoms go away or stop getting better. I probably won't get more than 1 injection every 2 or 3 months from a GP who hasn't heard of functional B12 deficiency either.

[Angie10116 in reply to FancyPants54]

They should all go to medical school again tbh. Best of luck, you’re very strong.

[Nackapan in reply to FancyPants54]

I got everything other day b12 injections on the NHS it's in their guidelines . NICE.It was he frequency afterwards that was challenged.

If you think you have functional b12 ask for a referral.

MMA can be tested

[Noelnoel in reply to Nackapan]

Is MMA conclusive? What about homocysteine?

[Nackapan in reply to Noelnoel]

I've not had it but I do know used to diagnose functional b12 deficiency. As if a high reading MMA this strongly indicates s b12 deficiency.

That as well as homocysteine atd usually ordered by s specialist and bloods taken in hospital to get accurate results.

I assume accurate readings.

[Noelnoel in reply to FancyPants54]

Hi FP54

I recognise your name from the thyroid forum. Sorry to hear you’re not doing so well with your thyroid condition. Best of luck with NDT

I’m in the early stages of learning about PA because I think my son may have it - in fact certain - but we’re thinking about doing the MMA or homocysteine test first but while he makes up his mind I’ll be ordering B12, needles, etc, to start using the stuff myself as away of ruling out PA

I have Hashi’s managed very well with Metavive and Adrenavive and have in the past obtained very high levels of B12 with supplements but lately, I have what seem like PA type symptoms creeping in. I could do the MMA or homocysteine test but I’m really curious to find out if injecting will relieve these new symptoms

I’m interested to know the reason you haven’t done MMA or homocysteine. I contacted Medichecks and they say both tests are conclusive

[Hockey_player in reply to FancyPants54]

The term for what most of us have is pernicious anemia. This means we lack intrinsic factor which is the mechanism our bodies use to get B12 from the diet into our bodies. There is a more rare condition where some people have troubles using the B12 once it is in your body. Tell your doctor to read about pernicious anemia,

[FancyPants54 in reply to Hockey_player]

I know what PA is. I'm not sure if I have it. But I have all the nerve issues in my feet and lower legs of B12 deficiency hence I am going to trial injecting B12 as all B12 drops do is increase my blood levels.

I'm not doing this through the surgery. I tend to take things into my own hands due to pretty poor service for thyroid issues and atrial fibrillation. If it works and I find symptoms reducing, I will go to the surgery and tell them what I have done and the results and ask them to test intrinsic factor and gastric parietal cell antibodies. See if I can get them to help me.

[Hockey_player in reply to FancyPants54]

I never bothered having any tests for PA besides the low B12 level. As soon as I started supplementing I went from a basket case to an energizer bunny so it was obvious B12 was the problem. I lasted on supplements for many years (high dose, sublingual). My doctor suggested shots when my toes were sore and tingly. The shots cleared that up so again obvious it was the problem. If you get a positive result on the PA tests, then it will tell you something. But they have a high rate of getting negative results even when someone has PA. So if the B12 is obviously beneficial, why not just keep it up?

[FancyPants54 in reply to Hockey_player]

I will. But I'm still waiting for my supplies to arrive. I had a shot booked at a local clinic this afternoon as I understand it is advisable to have the first one in a clinical setting in case of a reaction. But the clinic texted first thing to say the man who does the shots is unwell and they would be closed today. So I have to reschedule that. I was looking forward to kicking off the experiment. I felt quite disappointed.

[Hockey_player in reply to FancyPants54]

I hope you get the help you need soon!

[Nackapan in reply to Angie10116]

You have a few and you dont need them for a few years ???

Do you mean b12 Injections ???

I've never known that to be true !

I suppose possible if a vegan who got deplete from not taking the needed supplements.

Thus happened to a friend of mine. Who actually started to eat diary and some meat again as she got so scared bh her symptoms.

For her that worked as obviously not an absorbtion problem.

[Angie10116 in reply to Nackapan]

Yes, I’m referring to b12 infections. That’s what I had and my doctor told me that my levels post injections should last me a few years. We all know that not all doctors know what they’re taking about- maybe that was the case with mine

[Nackapan in reply to Angie10116]

Did the b12 injections last for you?

If a absorbtion problem theh wouldn't.

The Gp seems ignorant thinking the high blood levels of b12 will last and csn be utilised

One Gp said I'm no longer b12 deficient .

Replete .

I asked her a few questions.

Shd acknowledged it is mord complex that shd thought !

[Angie10116 in reply to Nackapan]

I had them two years ago and I think I’m all good. I might have a test soon to just check but seems fine

[Nackapan in reply to Angie10116]

That's good ,obviously b12 low from a dietary cause.

[Angie10116 in reply to Nackapan]

I do y think so. It came on after a radioactive pill for my thyroid. After that it went down lots. I have a diet full of b12

[Hockey_player in reply to Angie10116]

For someone with pernicious anemia (like most of us on this forum), we need B12 either using high dose sublingual supplements or injections regularly for the rest of our lives. The injections will only last you for a few years if for example the cause was eating a diet that was low in B12. I used sublingual for awhile then it was not working so I switched to injecting. My toes start to tingle if I go more than 3 weeks between injections.

[wedgewood]

If you wish to inject b12 we can give you all the information that you need . You can inject B12 sub-cutaneously with a 6mm needle . Doesn’t have to be I.M . though doctaters in U.K. always use IM. — I injected B12 I.M . for 9 years , now I’m using sub-cut with a 6 mm needle -Works perfectly Sub- cut is used in Germany . It is written on the packets of B12 ampoules that we get from German online pharmacies . . . B12 is. a non-prescription item in Germany !

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

This is what I need. A link to the pharmacy people here in the UK use to buy it from (I can translate German with my business translation package so language is no barrier). But what strength/size of ampule do I need to buy?

Where can I get the 6mm needles from and are they suitable to extract the liquid from the ampule or do I need another sort of needle for that?

Where do I get the syringes from?

[wedgewood in reply to FancyPants54]

subcutaneous injections are released into the system more slowly than Intra Muscular , because the sub-cutaneous layer is less well endowed with blood vessels than the muscles. Maybe you would want your first injections to be I.M. until you reach a high level, then use sub - cut ?

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

I didn't see this response last night. I've ordered all the sub cut materials now. I will be happier doing that. I know I can do it. I was very nervous about doing IM.

[wedgewood in reply to FancyPants54]

Well , you might want to inject daily for a bit to get your levels up quickly. Sub-cut is certainly a lot less daunting than I.M.

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

Reading a few more posts and responses just now I was starting to think that might be a good idea. At least for 1 week. Perhaps for 2 weeks. And then move to EOD.

I know I can do SC. I was feeling worried about IM. What if I could not do it.

As most of my issues that I am in need of help with are the stinging, painful, cramping and burning numbness of my feet and lower legs, plus balance issues, gait issues and terrible muscle stiffness/weakness in legs, I was assuming I should do EOD until there is no further improvement in symptoms and then drop back a bit to find a balance. It might be that I need EOD for the foreseeable future.

Do you think I'm right to think that? Now if I started with 1 or 2 weeks of daily I might find a faster reaction. Which would be good.

I'm pretty sure I need to up my Armour Thyroid dose a bit again, but I'm holding off that until I'd tried the B12 for a while otherwise I won't know what is helping or hindering.

[wedgewood in reply to FancyPants54]

It’s all trial and error . Keep a note of what you do . . We know that doctors don’t get it right . You will be in control . Don’t forget the folic acid . Also a vitamin D with K ,( unless you are on blood thinners )

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

I've been pretty much self-medicating my hypothyroidism for years now. I buy my own NDT to do it with. I run my own finger prick blood tests to monitor that.

I am taking folate already and will continue with it now. I also take and will continue with a Vitamin B Complex. And I take vitamin D and K2. I use a modern anticoagulant, not warfarin, K2 should be OK with that. I don't have problems with bleeding. I have a permanent arrhythmia. Atrial fibrillation.

[wedgewood]

You can obtain B12 depot ( depot indicates that it is Hydroxocobalamin, which is what the NHS uses , ) from

apohealth.de. You can get this site in English ( Union flag bottom left on my device ) No charge for delivery .

versandapo.de Site in German

Most of us use Panpharma b12 depot Ref no. 16199653 Sometimes out of stock due to popularity. pack of 10 single use ampoules . 1mg x 1ml ampoules .

Pascoe b12 depot packs of 10 or 100 single use ampoules 1.5 x 1ml ampoules

Hevert b12 depot packs of 10 or 100 single use ampoules .

Some people use I.M method , but I use Sub -cut after 9 years of I.M .

i get the 30G x 6mm needles from Amazon.co.U.K. Called Antonmove Stainless steel disposable Needle . C ant find them in medisave .

medisave.co.uk. Supply 2ml syringes and the long needles needed to extract the B12 from the ampoule. Long needle coukd be a 21G x 1 1/2 inch

If you are clever enough you can buy a combined short needle with attached syringe and can extract the b12 by turning the ampoule upside down , I can’t master this !

Hope this helps .

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

That's brilliant. Thank you , thank you!

I found the B12 on the Panpharma site and have them in my basket already. So I will go ahead now that I have confirmed the product number etc. And I will get the short needles. I won't try being clever with extraction at this stage!

Thank you for your help. I can just get on with it now and not be beholden to doctors. I avoid them as much as I can.

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

I should have said I want to do sub cut because I know I can do that, I already do it. Where do you prefer to inject in that way? Do you pinch up a lump of skin and go straight into it or at an angle? With the 4mm needles I'm currently using I just go straight in, no need to pinch or angle.

[wedgewood in reply to FancyPants54]

I inject into the front and outer part of my thighs . No , I don’t pinch the skin , just press the needle into the skin . I inject very slowly . You can’t do it quickly because the needle is so very fine . Don’t feel a thing ! Afterwards I massage the injection spot for a minute or so to sort of disperse the B12 ———- Then I praise my lucky stars that I happened upon this forum !

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

I've been praising my lucky stars for finding HealthUnlocked for a long time as the thyroid group has probably saved me from getting very depressed. I have learned so much from them.

[wedgewood in reply to FancyPants54]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[FancyPants54 in reply to wedgewood]

I'm all done. Everything is ordered.

Thank you so much for your help. Now let's see if this helps me. It could be a red herring, but it might be a significant missing piece of the puzzle.

[am111]

Your symptoms are definitely those of B12 deficiency. As you know, B12 levels can be high from recent supplementation even with deficiency. You have already bought the injections, you can easily do SC as it is easier to do. Stick with a schedule that suits you. In my case, even once-a-week helped.

[Delilahmy]

A few seconds ago

hi good luck with the injecting I’m sure you will master it quickly …. Don’t forget to take the methyl folate co factors … I get 5mg from Healthleads

healthleadsuk.com/folate-l-...

All the best

[FancyPants54 in reply to Delilahmy]

Thank you. I have been taking folate for a while now and will continue. My levels were always low in range. Much improved now.

[Yeswithasmile]

hi FancyPants54

Just thought I’d say that there are videos on YouTube showing how to do it. SC and IM. I’m new to it and found it daunting but watching the videos over and over certainly helped me. I’m using IM method. I don’t find it hurts at all but it does seem scary. Honestly though if I can do it I really think anyone can! It’s a bit like the fingertip blood tests, the anticipation is far far worse that the actual lancet! Self injecting is the same. The best of luck x.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Yeswithasmile]

Iv’e bought sub cut kit. I know I can do those. Everything should be arriving over the next week.

[Yeswithasmile in reply to FancyPants54]

Good for you. I felt same as you, got to give it a go.

My levels were always low. A friend got b12 on the nhs and her results were higher than mine 🤷‍♀️. Then I started to supplement so it’s impossible to tell.

I’m trying to be sceptical as t3 hasn’t been a miracle cure for my UAT either but I have to say 2 injections and I had energy. Then I started to feel a bit worse. I was doing eod. I missed the 5th one by 2 days. Woke up with this Chinese burn feeling in my foot I’d been experiencing off and on (one of the things I’d been getting) so I did a jab and it disappeared a few hours later. Haven’t got it this morning. Still have other nerve pain mind you but maybe 🤔 ….

Best of luck for you x.

[FancyPants54 in reply to Yeswithasmile]

Oh that sounds promising. Fingers crossed for a consistently good outcome. I have heard we can feel worse before we feel better sometimes.

How are you finding the actual injection part of the process to be?

[Yeswithasmile in reply to FancyPants54]

The first few times I was v nervous. Some kind people did say it gets easier and it definitely does. I’m not quite without fear yet but I’m getting there. Of course we are driven by our desire to feel better and this for me and no doubt everyone here makes me prepared do whatever it takes to reach that. I’m just keeping the faith that I can feel better. I am hoping this works for me and you too. We won’t know unless we try 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

[FancyPants54 in reply to Yeswithasmile]

We most certainly won't. And the fact that we are prepared to do our research, work out what the problem might be, learn more and then take matters into our own hands and buy and use the products to treat ourselves makes us quite extraordinary. So many people just take what the first GP tells them as gospel and never think about it for themselves.

Good luck to both of us. We deserve to feel better.