Vaccination refusal at 85

My 85 year old mother in law who is English but lives in Spain with full residency rights has refused the vaccine. We have therefore refused to put her at risk by visiting her there ( we don’t fancy the idea of flying right now anyway) but other family members plan to fly out soon to see her! We think she is wrong and so are family that visit her in her tiny apartment. Thoughts snd comments welcome 🧐🤨

[Bowenlady]

Why has she refused the vaccine? Do you know? I’m sure she has thought about it and knows the risks. It’s a terrible dilemma though. I can see what you are saying, but does she never meet up with any of her family again? Experience of my elderly friends tells me that they get to a certain age, are happy for the life they have lived, and don’t fear death. She probably thinks if it will happen it will, and she has to die from something. This is not what I think, so don’t be offended, but this is what many of my 80 plus clients and friends have said to me. When they get even older they say they have had enough now and are ready to go. I can’t ever imagine saying that myself but I have heard it many times. She probably has no fear of the virus. It’s hard to grasp for me. I think your family should be very careful though. They could meet outdoors instead of in the apartment surely? It’s worrying. ❤️

[Hidden in reply to Bowenlady]

You are right, she’s ready to go but I’d rather hoped it would be peacefully in her sleep’ rather than ‘died a needless death putting others at risk’. Thanks for your reply 😀

[Bowenlady in reply to Hidden]

My guess is that if you tell her she’s selfish her reply would be “well don’t come and visit me then,” I think the health care professionals, the people she shops from, her friends, catching it from her if she got it could be a good angle to try. It’s very difficult for you, as you are so far away. Does she realise that she could have Covid and show no symptoms and could be passing it on? Perhaps infecting a friend who doesn’t feel the same way about death that she does. Flipping heck you have your work cut out there. Can you make a list of every thing you can think of to encourage her to have the jabs and phone her explaining each one, and ask her to have a think about it? Good luck. Thinking of you. X

[Spanielmadlady]

Hi stiff.my mum is 89 and was more then happy to have her vaccines and has already sent me the link from drs for her flu jab.having worked with end of life I get what Bowen is saying about they have had enough and arnt bothered if they go.all I would say is explain the other reasons for vaccines protecting others, healthcare staff etc ( I'm sure you already have) and do what is right for you.id stay well away from anyone who goes to visit .x

[Hidden in reply to Spanielmadlady]

I agree with Bowen Ladies assessment actually, she’s reach a stage where she’s prepared to die. However it does not have to be snd should not be the awful Covid death. Thank for your reply 😀

[PMRpro]

Bear in mind that if you were to visit her, it is also putting you at risk. You'll see my post over on PMRGCAuk too on a parallel argument.

With rights come responsibilities. Almost all the ICU cases now are people who have refused the vaccines, and they are still dying. It is a horrible way to die and they are also putting the healthcare staff at risk, less of a risk I grant you, but as the mother of a nurse and a paramedic who care for Covid patients, anyone who refuses to reduce the risk to them is just downright selfish.

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

I’m in your court entirely it’s just trying to convince an 85 year old. Thanks for you reply 😃

[PMRpro in reply to Hidden]

Oh I know - not a problem we have had to face. But I would certainly say it to anyone's face - "you are being selfish" ...I think there are a lot of families in similar stand-offs.

[Ingrid1234 in reply to PMRpro]

Is this 85 year old behaving “selfishly” as you say?🤔. Can you be that sure? Is “selfish”the right word to use in this context?

[happytulip in reply to Ingrid1234]

Whatever word is used, the situation is that someone who isn't vaccinated and gets covid may very well land up in ICU. If that bed is taken by an unvaccinated covid patient it will mean that elective major surgeries like a bowel resection for a malignant tumor or tumors wont be able to go ahead.If I was a patient who got a phone call to say that my surgery had been cancelled due to an ICU bed not being available because there are to many covid patients in ICU (and the data shows the majority of ICU patients are unvaccinated), then I would be devastated to continue to live with my tumors and I suspect I would think that people were being selfish, for want of a better word.

It's about we not me.

I've been double jabbed and feel terrible since my second one and had an anaphylactoid reaction to both jabs. Not ideal but I was willing to go through it to protect myself and others.

[Hidden in reply to happytulip]

Well said!

[stiff19]

I just don’t know how you explain to her that the vaccine is to be had for other people not just herself. If my dad in same age bracket refused there’d be no telling him, but luckily he’s had his. I guess the more people could drive it into her that she’d be protecting others and loved ones then maybe she’d change her mind 🤷‍♀️Maybe if fsmily said they can’t see her until she’s jabbed 🤷‍♀️ May work 🙏x

[Ingrid1234]

Has she been tested?

Does she test regularly?

Is she covid negative?

If she is covid negative and is STRICTLY SHIELDING from covid and paying strict attention to her own personal hygiene, she has massively reduced her infection risk; why would she want to have workers and visitors, some of whom could give her covid whilst in the process of giving her a vaccination which may not work against the highly contagious DELTA variant?

Perhaps she loves her social isolation and hermit like existence as well? Many lupus sufferers have been compelled to adapt due to the pandemic. Perhaps she has taken preventive covid measures to the MAX?

If she is a lupus sufferer I fully understand her concerns, her independent thinking and her reluctance to comply, invaded by a whole lot of self-righteous people with “herd” thinking but without herd immunity.

She could develop a catastrophic adverse reaction to the vaccines offered inSpain? But!🤔

Your 85 year old mother in law has my respect.👍

Vaccination does not guarantee protection nor transmission. She probably knows that.

Her choice. She may “not be ready to go” as some have assumed but values her independent thinking and her own decision.

[Hidden in reply to Ingrid1234]

Not had Covid, not done a test, not shielding just not having the jab snd staying in on her own for the rest of her life apparently!

[happytulip in reply to Hidden]

That's really sad.

[Hidden in reply to happytulip]

We are still in shock about this but hoping we can change her view happytulip

[Elfie1 in reply to Ingrid1234]

Well said

[Hidden]

You have to respect her right to decide.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes, unfortunately we do have to respect her decision and What’s she’s decided is never to see her family again by remaining at risk and being a risk. It’s irresponsible IMHO

[Villagelife]

Its a difficult one my Mother is 86 , she readily agreed to the vaccine because she has never questioned medication etc. , she has vascular dementia so doesn't remember the risks. I had to constantly explain to her not to go shopping etc. etc. She would agree but say why should the government tell me what to do at my age, I grew up in the war, she described what it was like, taking gas masks to school, ration books etc. They certainly had it hard. I can understand all points of view, but please don't as a family fall out over this as life is too short.

[Hidden in reply to Villagelife]

Thanks for your reply and wise words x

[Villagelife]

An after thought to my response is my Mum always says 'I want to reach a 100 but if I have to go before then I will wave bye bye 👋 🥰 another of her sayings is 'dont worry, you die if you do and you die if you dont😆. Im a worrier though lol

[Hidden in reply to Villagelife]

My grandma reached 102 bless her😃

[Villagelife in reply to Hidden]

Great age😊

[Forgot2mention]

Hi, unfortunately it isn’t just the elderly refusing the jab, i work with a man (late 30’s) whose mum was hospitalised with covid but he is still refusing saying not enough tests done on the vaccine. Hopefully your family might be able to persuade her when they visit , unfortunately not haven’t much luck with work colleague thank goodness for twice weekly lateral flow tests.

[happytulip]

My folks are in their 70s and 80s. All their friends are of a similar age bracket and all have had the jab.I have SLE, MCAS, POTs and an immune deficiency. When my parents come to visit they isolate beforehand for ten days. The journey to mine is two hours. They either drive themselves or get a taxi and the taxi driver, a family friend does a LF before hand. They are taking it very seriously because they know if I caught covid I would be in big trouble. Also, when they visit it means I get a hug, we can enjoy ourselves at mine. We don't have to worry and the stress of risk isn't there.

People of all ages can make an informed choice as you say. But when it comes to covid it is slightly different in that their decision can impact on others. It might be possible that people of all ages don't appreciate this.

But you are correct, we can't judge people by their age. I think there is a lack of appreciation about vaccination across all age groups.

[Hidden in reply to happytulip]

Wishing you many more happy worry free visits soon 😄

[happytulip in reply to Hidden]

Thank you. With time I hope you can change her mind. Perhaps it's all a bit daunting for her just now.

[Elfie1]

Well said again

[Ingrid1234]

Strange post?

[Hidden in reply to Ingrid1234]

Happy to expand on the story if you like?

[Hidden]

Do you have a question on my post? 🙂

[Hidden]

Gremlins in the system 🤖