I have until 28 August to get my Manatory Assessment information in. I'm grateful to whoever told me I was entitled to see the assessor's report. I've only read half and am facepalming already. I'm so glad I took a friend with me. We've already racked our brains as to whether I was offered a physical examination and refused it. No, I wasn't offered one, and if I had, I would not have refused!
So many of her hypothetical questions have been turned into her version of concrete statements by me. We were talking about eating and she asked if I could eat a sandwich. I replied, half, depending on the filling. It seems I can make sandwiches. Sorry dear, I haven't made one in so long I can't remember, but if I was offered one ....
Did you know that "surfing the internet" shows good manual grip and dexterity? In the olden days with a keyboard and mouse, perhaps, but I bought an iPad so that a light touch of one finger is enough. Hence I can order groceries and get them delivered.
I'm off to pick out the bits that are good for a laugh. Could do with it. Fortunately there are quite a few. 🍞🧀😡😂
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Lupiknits
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This PIP game is a mine field and you need two heads when they interview you, I had an assessment and it’s the way they interpret thing it’s their hypothetical questions that always bothered me, they look at things in such an unfair light. Always good to make notes straight after to go through all the points so you remember what was said. You may have to appeal, but sounds like you have the measure of them.
Shame you couldn’t say that you were recording the interview and that you were informing her cos of data protection!
True, I could have requested recording it - and will next time. I'll also ask them to specify what they mean by "if" or else give an explanation of every scenario covered by "if" . My friend who accompanied me said the nurse looked bored to death and glad to be rid of me. That's an impression but certainly underscores the slap dash approach.
ugh, that's some bitter laughter there, Lupiknits. I have my form in front of me right now, and am sure I will end up failing to get it. The whole assumption rankles - we are guilty of attempted fraud unless we can definitely prove to them otherwise. Hope you get them to revise it so that it tells the truth x
Just seen your reply to lupiknits that you've got your pip form to fill in. Could I just say, don't do it alone, Citizens Advice know how best it should be done to maximise success. If not them but maybe DIAL could help in your area. Best of luck with it. X
And even if we can definitively prove otherwise this doesn’t stop them querying the “subjective” impact of our conditions on our daily lives. It’s all about proving impact and, for DWP and PIP it’s a case of finding us guilty of lying or exaggerating the real impact - unless we can prove otherwise.
It’s so counter intuitive and such innately denigrating process that I admit it proved too much for me. My husband has begged me not to put myself through it again as it messed with my mental and physical health too much. X
Sorry about your experiences Twitchy. The whole process is degrading and mentally painful. Why it is a matter of guilty until proven innocent I don't know. Maybe we've moved beyond the "treated with dignity and respect" mantra.
The statistics showing that the majority of decisions are overturned if it reaches the tribunal stage must surely make somebody scratch their head. Numpties.
Yes I think the frequent overturning at tribunal is pretty damning.
In my case however the tribunal team wouldn’t let the observations of the assessor go. I guess there were things I took issue with such as near normal grip strength (she did physical exam), struggle with standing rather than walking, bizarre resting arm and leg weakness - which are extremely hard to prove.
My OT and then neuro physio measured my grip strength this week and my right hand varied a lot in 24 hours between each test. My left grip was consistently almost non existent - but of course this wouldn’t be of much interest to PIP as I’m right handed.
Other stuff such as bowel issues were just too hard for me to describe to strangers - unsympathetic ones at that. And this was their first focus.
And small fibre neuropathy isn’t yet understood/ recognised as significantly debilitating and disabling - even by doctors. I actually think in impact terms I’d have been better off with diagnosed Fibromyalgia, IBS, ME, OA and depression than I am with Sjögren’s, SFN, EM/ Raynaud’s, sensory ataxia and dysmotility.
Maybe in another year, especially if left off meds, I’ll reapply with newly confirmed degenerative disc disease and related cervical Myelopathy and sciatica from herniated discs. I wonder if these are the problems they grasp more than the ones that are actually most life changing and disabling for me and others here?
I really can’t emphasise enough how important it is to find and get your friend to confirm the discrepancies you have observed between what the assessor claimed and what you know to be true. Xx
Will do Twitchy, and I'm trying my best to get a letter following last rheumy clinic when he said the muscles in my legs and hands were rubbish ( I didn't realise)
I think you are very right about complex and inter mingled problems. My assessor is a nurse - no specialty mentioned. I know I'm getting to the age when policemen look young, but with two sons in their 20s I'd put her at 25 with a margin of generosity. Nothing at all wrong with very young professionals but this person cannot have any great experience behind her.
I suggest you drop any embarrassment or sense of pride. If you need incontinence pads/pants, get them on the NHS. Wanting to save the NHS a bob or two and using amazon doesn't fit in their categories ( if push comes to shove I'll show my orders)! Again, on the day, I had a bottle of water because I'm incredibly dry mouthed st the moment. Friend opened it, I held and sipped from it = totally capable at all times in their view. In hindsight we should have gone through the at home routine - in a children's screw lid party plastic beaker with a straw fixed through it ( I've broken or spilled so many times I now look like Nora No-Mates having a party, right down to the Mr Men plates and bowls) A misled sense of pride and dignity had me sipping from a bottle.
Again, I should have worn my hand braces, but didn't because I didn't need to that day and to me, that would have felt a scam.
My friend will be invaluable. Apparently I went through a memory test. Can't remember that happening, will see if friend can. I'm familiar with the usual memory/cognitive tests, and those certainly didn't happen.
Twitchy, I can understand how the whole thing makes you feel and your husband wanting you to leave it for now. Do try again, in due course, though, please do x
Even if you could make a sandwich so what , the question is about preparing and cooking a meal not a sandwich it's a joke , the whole system is wrong the criteria are pathetic , it's ridiculous to say that if you can walk more than 50 metres you are fine , 50 metres is nothing and they don't take into account the fact that you have pain when you walk and tiredness like they are suppose to it's a case of if you can walk it that's it . Esa is even worse , with that the question is can you mobilise 50 metres , that includes using a wheelchair and the criteria for checking strength in hands is ' can you pick up an EMPTY cardboard box and can you pick up a pound coin . At the end of the day the questions and criteria are made to make it impossible all they care about is getting people off benefits they are not interested in your health , a person would have to be completely bedbound and unable to do anything at all to qualify for these benefits . The most disgusting question on the esa form is do you have a terminal illness and are not expected to live for 6 months ? If that's the case you qualify without any problems as you satisfy the special circumstance criteria, so that must mean if you are terminal but expected to live longer than 6 months then you must have to apply and go through the whole degrading process which is appalling .
I knew about a terminal illness and less that six months but it had never occurred to me that you are subject to the process if you have more than six months to live and yet are terminally ill. I'm speechless
Well I don't know for sure but as you only qualify for the special circumstance criteria if you only have 6 months to live then you must have to go through the process if you are expected to live longer otherwise why would they put a time scale on it , it should be that if you have a terminal illness you automatically get the benefits regardless of how long you are expected to live .
Hiya It appears that most people have to appeal ESA and PIP decisions The DWP and system is a total disgrace.
If you're a member of the charity Lupus UK you can get free access to the guides by the organisation "benefits and work" which helps explain the benefits system and gives good tips on claiming so they may help in any appeal
I get bad fatigue can't work and was medically retired but had to appeal to get the correct ESA ( the one to assess if you're fit for work)
When I last applied for DLA which is now PIP, I didn't get anything ( & didn't have the energy to appeal plus thought I was probably "borderline" in how severe I was / needing "help") .... I'm about to claim again as many people who know me are shocked that I don't already get PIP.
It's very likely they haven't given "enough weight" to fatigue , pain and whether you can "do" things repeated and or reliably ( for PIP need "help" because you can't do without fatigue, pain or can't do repeatedly/ reliably) ....
so there all points you can emphasis in the appeal. They should also take into account if you can "do" things to an ""acceptable standard"... we get used to accepting fatigue and or pain but most normal people would not consider our levels "acceptable" ...hence although you physically can "do" things such as mobilise wash dress etc if you look at it re "acceptable" fatigue/ pain/ repeated/ reliable then actually for assessment by DWP it should count that "no you can't / yes you do need "help"
Also if you need any kind of aids or assistance it should help you get "points" in them deciding if you get PIP.
A welfare rights officer may also be able to help in any appeal ...in my area they are under council social services ( you may need a Dr or occupational therapist to do a referral)
Thank you, and I am a member. My first PIP was completed for me by a Welfare Rights Officer ( you only have to ask here). When I rang WR about this PIP check up I was breezily told if nothing had changed, just tick that and add you prescriptions: I was unlikely to be assessed. I did give more information than that though!
I do wonder about the unintended costs of the mistakes DWP makes. It must cost quite a lot of tax payer's money on contracts to Atos, the civil servant time; and when there are challenges and tribunals which overturn original decisions, is there much saving?
I know it's ridiculous MR very rarely overturns decision so usually people have to appeal, and it must be a cost in giving the wrong assessment of people. I think there's also a lot of "miss-information that people cheat the system" ... most people don't / fraud rates are very low
However I think a lot of people do give up, ( for example in past I didn't appeal DLA decision but I probably should have as I personally now think it's a "technique" of DWP to deny people) , or folks don't even apply in the first place so perhaps on balance they "save money that way"
We are genuinely entitled to these benefits so don't let them stop you
Thank you fabwheelie. I do know many give up because it's quite a soul destroying experience. As far as I understand it's the least abused benefit by those in receipt, but there we go ...
Lupiknits, I joined Benefits and Work and downloaded all the ‘how to fill in the PIP claim’ documents. I found them to be a great help, I think it cost about £20. . I was actually awarded it at the first time , much to my surprise! It was money well spent, the guides were very helpful.
hope everything goes well for you. A friend had a PIP assessment last year - a continual putting words into the mouth of.
I've got WCA on Saturday at 9.15 26 miles from home. A friend is taking me. I'm currently ESA support group can cope with work related [tho last time became pointless...] but the thought of Jobseekers is terrifying. If there was a job that paid me £120 a week and didn't make me ill I'd do it. I did an art project [permitted work] but couldn't complete in time...didn't matter for the gallery, and I couldn't do a live reading...
Thanks floffloach. I gave a copy of the assessor's report to my friend and make no remarks, so tomorrow we see what she thinks against what I think ( she was at the assessment)
We are already decided about the tosh written by the DWP person in summary.
Then the form can be typed ( on line) and back in good time for the mandatory.
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