Hi guys so I have just had my pip assessment and only been awarded 4 points for daily living so I do not qualify.
However I feel the points she has awarded me are really low ie 2 out of a possible 8 or 12.
I really struggled with the call and its made me so disheartened. Does anyone on here have any success or experience with appealing?
I'm sorry you haven't received the award you expected.
The next stage would be to do a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR), which is best put in writing either in a letter, or use this form: assets.publishing.service.g...
With your MR, give a couple of recent, detailed examples as to the difficulty you face for each applicable activity/descriptor, i.e. when did it happen, where, what happened, did anyone see this, & were there any consequences to attempting/doing an activity?
Say if you can't do an activity 'reliably,' i.e. safely, to an acceptable standard, repeat as often as one would reasonably expect, or if it takes you much longer than someone without a disability.
If you do your MR as a letter, ensure you put your name & National Insurance number on each page. Keep a copy, & get a free Certificate of Posting from your Post Office when sending it off.
As already mentioned, you can also look for help (e.g. Welfare Rights or CAB) such as here: advicelocal.uk/ choosing 'Welfare benefits' from the drop down menu.
Please come back with any questions.
What you say is correct. It is sometime just a question of OPINION. I am not trying to buck the system I am trying to get the assessment, and we do need an assessment for access to benefits, right first time. this would come from the Charters that BOTH the DWP/PIP's and assessment companies have by law. I'm not going to bore you with the technical side, BUT, the latest letters from Capita have now changed, they now state that the Assessment report is only a recommendation to the Decision Maker, and it is the decision maker that makes the final decision.
If this is the case why does the charter state that ALL assessors are Professional Medical Practitioners registered on an APPROPRIATE MEDICAL REGISTER, among the other training that gives them "extra training above the normal people that treat you"
As professionals they should know that ANY REPORT written by them should also contain the basic details of the writer or Assessor, with out this it is exactly that. AN OPINION, AND THEREFORE YOUR OPINION HOLDS AS MUCH WEIGHT, at a Tribunal.
Ask for a copy of the report written by the assessor, and ask them what they Medical evidence was used to assess you. They will state the HP or HCP medical report but don't state which one ask them to name the people on the reports that have been used to assess, since you have supplied Medical Facts, and their reports are unsupported unless in the MY DECISION they separate what is medical fact and what is their opinion. Most if not all start with IN MY OPINION, ........... there is nothing to state where they drew their conclusions with supporting evidence?
eg. HCP and Scan states that I have walking problems and require Bi-lateral knee replacements, one has been completed but the results were not what was expected, and still struggles to walk and looses breath on standing and is in pain from swollen legs before even walking begins.
Assessor: Was seen to walk with a gait and showed no signs of breathlessness, at the assessment, and when completing the medical examination was able to perform balance and grip tests to an acceptable standard.
Sounds good and would except this if it had supporting evidence, like what they are trained in with an ID I could trace on a Medical register that they say they are registered on?
And by the way this was my assessment, and it was over the PHONE?
Never give up, anyone, ask for the medical supporting evidence used to assess you, and by the way its NOT A MEDICAL ASSESSMENT, ITS AN ASSESSMENT FOR ACCESS TO BENEFITS. I will not subject my self to any Medical examination unless the person that is assessing me shows I D. When you go to a hospital would you except any thing less? AND, if they were professionals on a Medical register, appropriate or not, why is the report not entered into your medical history that you have had a medical examination?
If you don't want to ask for ID as some don't, then at the start ask, Can I have a copy of the report sent to my GP please. You will find that all the chatting before hand will change and they will make the statement, the report is only for the decision maker and is not a medical examination, and if there was one, it would be only to check some of the details in the information I have. ITS STILL A MEDICAL and still ask for a copy to be sent to your GP? You may get a proper assessment...
I would be interested to see a link as to the charters you mention re: the DWP & their HCPs. The Health Care Professionals (HCPs/assessors) reports are indeed just their opinion. Also the claimant's initial claim form, if well done, will carry more weight; the HCP's report only being taken into consideration if this is not the case.
It's important to realise that PIP is whether you can perform the criteria looked at with PIP reliably. It is not about your diagnoses, & not necessarily hinged on any medical info you provide (none of your Drs/consultants have likely seen you eat, bathe, or use your bathroom for example).
So, medical evidence isn't needed, &, as the HCPs are looking at your functional ability, they don't need to evidence this contrary to what onebigvoice has said.....it's all about giving a couple of detailed real life examples as to the difficulty you face with any applicable PIP descriptor.
HCPs will not be on a medical register as they're not Drs, but will be registered with their own professional bodies.
As mentioned, there's no medical assessment involved with PIP, & you can decline any 'functional' measurement of your abilities without penalty. Hmmm, why would you want anything to do with your PIP claim (or any other benefit claim) recorded in your medical history, & why would you want a copy of the assesssor's report sent to your GP?
As the OP has just had an assessment, it's important to say that the first stage of an appeal is a Mandatory Reconsideration.
Thank you for reading my post and commenting. I have found that if mistakes are made then the only way forward is to learn from them and try not to make the same mistakes again.
I would be interested to see a link as to the charters you mention re: the DWP & their HCPs. The Health Care Professionals (HCPs/assessors) reports are indeed just their opinion. Also the claimant's initial claim form, if well done, will carry more weight; the HCP's report only being taken into consideration if this is not the case.
REFERENCE 1.
Revised WCA Handbook. MED-ESAAR2011/2012-001 Page 2 of 252 pages.
Forward: This sets out what is expected of the Assessor and also states that the Training Programme for Health Professionals is approved by the Chief Medical Officer and the Department of Works and Pensions.
In reading the forward ( and it must be all read) It states: All Healthcare professionals undertaking assessments must be registered practitioners, who in addition, have undergone training in disability Assessment Medicine and specific training in the relevant benefits areas.
So in this section alone it states what is expected. they are classed as MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS, THEY ARE APPROVED BY THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, ARE REGISTERED ON AN APROPRIATE MEDICAL REGISTER. ( recently changed since its not classed as a medical but access to benefits, but still requires specialist training) , have undergone training in disability Assessment Medicine and specific training in the relevant benefits areas.
All that from a few lines? So if its not a medical why ask at any stage to give a medical examination? You have to remember that people going for an assessment are anxious, and stressed, so when asked to complete tasks, for what ever reason will say yes? So a Professional Doctor/Nurse/Surgeon/HP/HCP has assessed you and the report is in your medical history. You have been diagnosed as Terminal Cancer, and have colon and stomach cancer, they are removed and you have a stoma fitted.
The assessor who is also qualified, not necessarily in what is wrong with you, that was also changed about 5 years ago, when DWP said it would be impossible to match everyone's problems with the correct HCP/HP/NURSE ( medical professional) so as long as they are approved by the Chief Medical Officer and are on an appropriate medical register they can COMPLETE AN ASSESSMENT. It does not say complete a medical examination? Since this has already been done.
The assessors report stated Can cook a meal for one unaided and can stand at a cooker safely and unaided. So where is the professionalism in the report/medical examination? Is it the report that says we have removed every thing and has now a stoma fitted, but is only to prolong their quality of life, the certificate of Terminal Cancer is still in play? Or the professional assessor who scored ZERO because he stated can cut and eat a meal he prepared using cutlery, (also he had a stroke and has lost all use of his left side and hands, one hand like a claw) Why do I need a Mandatory Reconsideration? because this report and all the others does not follow the charters set out by the DWP.
I can comment further but just to add at this time the charter comes with every assessment and what to expect the booklets for things like UC which is six benefits into one, are supposed to make things easier, but for who? Since all your information is put onto a central computer to stop having to ask for permission on each access to benefits.
If you go to hospital for an x-ray you don't have to ask for the results to be put into your medical history? I asked for the assessors report to be put into my Medical History because I know that in order to do that they would have to fully justify the report showing where they drew their conclusions from and show what is Medical fact an what is their opinion, and sign it, electronically or manually to say that the content of the report was written by them and not influenced by the hirer, in this case DWP or Capita-PIP's, as the contract to assess is with the Decision Maker and the Assessment company, because the decision maker has no medical background, and what would be the point of the assessment at £850 if there was no need to clarify any details medically on the form?
So whether the decision maker need clarity he contacts Capita-PIP's or Maximus with questions that need a further professional report, that must be medically justified.
Ref 2. susan.ellis@ombudsman.org.uk
Your complaint about Capita Business Services LTD (Capita)
Reference 3. The Independent Case Examiner,
PO Box 209,
Bootle
L20 7WA.
Email. ice@dwp.gov.uk
Tel: 08004148529.
Ref 4: ombudsman.org.uk/complain-f...
Reference 5: citizensadvice.org.uk
Reference 6: Discussion in PIP,DLA, and AA - 20th April 2022.
Gives complete list of all benefits and references for more information.
UC without a WCA? 11th August 2020.
High court decision, High Court - in Conner, R ( on application Of v The Secretary of State. Deals with the Regulation 3Za of the Social Security and Child Support (Decisions and Appeals) Regulation 1999)
ALL t5his and more and what do you find? The files are not being updated, and the assessment company have no Duty of Care as a Professional.
And try this: Regulation 30(3) of the Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008.
Where a benefits claimant appeals a decision by the Secretary of State that he does not have limited capability for work, and where the decision was either the first time that the issue was considered by the Secretary of State in respect of the claimant, or when it follows an earlier decision by the Secretary of State that benefits claimant did have limited capability for work, the benefits will continue to receive ESA on the strength of the evidence of HIS GP until such time as a First Tier Tribunal determines the appeal.
It then becomes not you to supply any more evidence but the DWP to support their documents that have already been rejected with new evidence.
A new assessment? It will now be looked at by the Tribunal or ICE/ICO.
Apology letters and telephone calls at the last second do not count as every thing must go through the Tribunal Service in line with the investigations above?
Reference 6. PIP How your disability affects you - information booklet.
Section 2 page 6.
Page 8 section 5.
and more.
Thank you for your reply & references altho I see no mention of charters, rather in the first reference you give, this is to the Work Capability assessments, so has no relevance to PIP. However, as you quote from this handbook,
'All Healthcare professionals undertaking assessments must be registered practitioners.' The words 'medical practitioners,' as you later claim, are not used.
Also the WCA handbook says, as you've quoted,
'the Training Programme for Health Professionals is approved by the Chief Medical Officer and the Department of Works and Pensions.' It does not say the HCPs are 'approved' by the Chief Medical Officer. Nor is a medical register mentioned. The training programme isn't however mentioned in the latest WCA handbook as you intimate. Please see: assets.publishing.service.g...
The WCA is a functional assessment. Please see p53 in the above link.
I begin to find your comments inaccurate, sorry, as I feel you have misread/misinterpreted sentences that you've quoted. Again, you seem to have this preoccupation with the HCPs, rather than looking at the whole of a person's claim, their own anecdotal evidence being the most important thing.
Hi Natj I had an assessment for pip to be told I was not entitled, I straight away appealed, I went to a registered charity that help people win there appeal, I won the appeal straight away, dont give up .
Hi, I am waiting for the date of my tribunal date and the DWP response to my MR. I am absolutely terrified. I had a previous case but couldn’t attend , my anxiety was awful and although I wrote to them I lost the appeal. This time feels worse (Iv agreed to attend over zoom) because I feel so let down by DWP and want the tribunal to hear what it’s like to struggle daily with Fibromyalgia and all its symptoms. I’m just looking for advice about what they want me to say, is it structured like the form or just talk about your life etc. how long it lasts are they approachable because this was a new ailment not the way DWP have managed it. Thanks for your advice in anticipation. Kind regards Adele
Hi Nat, I had to appeal for my PIP. There were 3 people at the appeal, a GP, a JP and a man who was disabled. I don't know if he had any particular expertise. I kept a diary of my symptoms for a week or so and included it with my evidence.
The tribunal panel were lovely and tried to make me feel more at ease. I talked to them about how my illness affects me. I could see that they were sympathetic and they decided in my favour. So please don't give up. 🤗
Hi, you need to appeal ASAP. I had zero points, put in a mandatory reconsideration and was then awarded the higher rare for daily living. Good luck, Xx
This is happening a lot lately you should appeal and then go to a tribunal if you have to I know someone with MS that got turned down
Appeal - 75% of cases that appeal are successful. Good luck 👍
Hi Nat, so sorry to hear that the call didn’t go well. I went through the appeal system twice before I received a successful outcome so please don’t be disheartened. Try contacting FMA UK which is a national charity for people with Fibromyalgia, they may be able to guide you with your appeal and tailor it for someone who suffers from the disease. Plus, as has been mentioned before, you can also contact the Citizens Advice Bureau too. Above all else, fight back! Many people give up at the first hurdle but you need to challenge their decision. Good luck with your appeal! - Sue xx
Hi, I’m in similar situation- I got awarded 5 points / therefore I’m appealing it & most likely go to a hearing / to try gain the extra few points etc.Do you have any other medical conditions you can add/ I do which may help strengthen the case
I was turned down twice for pip I’ve got endo pcoc im 46 and have not been able to work for a few years I am now claiming universal credit and after an appeal I’m now getting the lcwra so I’d say give that a try good luck
Hi Natj, when I first applied for Pip I was awarded no points by the assessor who had blatantly ignored all the medical evidence I had supplied. I submitted the MR which has to be done within a month. The DWP gave me 10 points I still appealed as I thought I should get the ehancement. The tribunal gave me an extra two points which gave me the enhancement of daily living and stated in a lette that having fibro, tendonosis and arthritis is extremely debilitating. Hope this helps.
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