Following 0 embryos fertilised from 7 eggs a few weeks ago, we are drawing up pros and cons to having surgery and then doing another round of stims.
Our consultant thinks that we had 0 fertilised due to my endometriosis impacting egg quality. I need to get my fallopian tubes removed due to hydrosalpinx in both tubes. Has anyone ever had their tubes removed and then went on to do IVF stims? My fear is that after surgery my already low AMH will be lower but I'm hoping they manage to remove some endometriosis during surgery too so that could be a good thing?
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Endowarrior36
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I would say you possibly had none fertilised because of their poor protocol and not necessarily poor egg quality. It’s just easier for clinics to blame egg quality!
I have endo and my first cycle (before surgery) I got 19 eggs. My friend has stage 4 endo and mild pcos. She has had no surgery and ended up with 11 blasts from 26 eggs and she’s due in 6 weeks x
My first clinic thought I had a hydrosalpinx but when I had the lap they found endo.. tubes were fine. I speak to a girl from clinic.. she’s had both her tubes out and still got a euploid on her last stim cycle x Maybe just start taking some egg boosting supplements.. can’t hurt just incase your egg quality has been impacted xx Good luck xx
Thank you so much for your reply HelzBelzUK. The only thing different with this protocol compared to my last was the Meriofert was 150 instead of 75. It's just so difficult to know. I want another round before surgery but if my egg quality is so poor because of the endo then maybe I should wait until after surgery. Then I worry about the risks with surgery - it's just difficult to know.
The hydrosalpinx was seen on an MRI and they've seen it in pretty much every ultra sound.
Those are great results from you and thats great news about your friend. Did you take anything for egg quality?
I don’t have any diagnosed endo but something is affecting my egg quality (could be my age) but Meriofert fried my eggs, I’m due to try pergoveris this has a 2:1 ratio, sometimes you need to try different protocols & see what works for you and see a ivf endo specialist
Meriofert is a 1:1 so equal amounts of LH and FSH but if you had gonal too this is an FSH so you may have been on a different ratio…pergoveris isn’t a 1:1 ratio, apparently the old you are the less LH you need (so I’ve read)…best of luck to you too xx
Yeah I understand you’re worrying about surgery but they’ll do it laparoscopically i’m assuming which is much better than open surgery. You’ll be home the same day.
What does your IVF Dr want you to do re: surgery vs another cycle??
Yeah I take ovum time to conceive, extra vitamin e and c, I take a total of 600mg ubiquinol, tru niagen, pro biotic. I started taking acai berry tablets but they bloated me too much so now I just mix the powder in with a yoghurt and have that once a week xx
Our IVF doctor wants us to PGTA test our 3 frozen embryos that we got from our cycle in October. I am really scared but I see the logic in it too.
I just worry about my amh decreasing from the laparoscopy too.
I haven't heard of Ovum time to conceive but I will look it up. What brand of coq10 are you taking? What probiotic are you taking? I must look up tru niagen too. Sorry for all the questions!xx
Thawing embryos that have already been frozen, taking a biopsy, re thawing them and then possibly defrosting them for transfer puts the embryo under an extreme amount of stress. I’m really suprised he/she has suggested that x
My AMH dropped a little but I had a few cysts so that’s why.
I take invivo bio.me femme v. Ovum has 200mg coq10 so I take an extra 400mg ubiquinol from natures best. They only come in 100mg capsules so I just split them.. 2 tablets in the morning.. one at lunch and one at bed.
Yes I have asked so many times about this but he feels quite strongly that by pgta testing them it gives us more information on the embryos and we know what we are dealing with. It is so difficult to know whether to go with my heart or my head.
Thank you for the info on your supplements. It's really useful to know xxx
my understanding is that surgery will not reverse these changes to ovaries/eggs sadly. I wish I’d waited until I’d done embryo banking to do surgery before transfers. But I was so symptomatic and missing work I couldn’t hold off. Now though, my endo is starting to flare after exposure to two more IVF cycles. I was essentially symptom free post op. And now after the two lots of stims symptoms are creeping back. Dread what 2-3 more banking cycles will do to me. So now the worry if endo will be very active again when come to transfers later.
As I’ve said before I agree LH was bad for my eggs and fried them. High FSH been much better.
I take ovum time to conceive too (has all the it starts with the egg recommended in there), added fish oil and vit D (bare biology) and added q10/ubiquinol and vitamin E.
Thank you Endofitall. The initial reason for surgery was and prob still is to remove my fallopian tubes - the hydrosalpinx is toxic to an embryo. Recently I have been wondering if getting rid of endometriosis cysts and even the fallopian tubes will help egg quality? Our consultant thinks that the endometriosis is damaging my egg quality.
I'm so sorry to hear that the drugs are impacting your endo. Its just such a vicious cycle isn't it. When do you think you will do another round? Are you giving yourself some time inbetween rounds to recover from the egg collection and stims? What stim drugs are you currently on?
I am sure the endo has caused a lot of our egg related problems but I don’t think it’s reversible with surgery. Surgery for hydrosalpinx is really important before transfers.
As I’ve said to you before I think IVF consultants are very ready to blame egg quality vs the protocol but egg quality can’t have changed that much in a couple of months for you. It makes no sense.
I’m going again next week I’ve just given myself a cycle between.
I am having recombinant FSH (gonal F/ovaleap) 450iu short protocol. I tried Pergoveris in September (first time we’ve had LH) and while it gave us more eggs it fried them and I had no blasts for first time ever.
hi,I noticed you haven’t mentioned if the sperm has been tested throughly , ie Dna fragmentation test.? Also I’m not sure what age you are but 7 eggs is good. We’re all 7 mature? I would try a different protocol (pergoveris possibly ) and getting on a strict supplement regime and ur partner before any major surgeries or decisions. Like said above, doctors are ALWAYS so quick to blame egg quality 🫤
Hi Kilk22, thank you for your message. Yes the sperm has been tested thoroughly and there are no issues with it. Its really good quality. I'm 36. In October, we had 7 eggs and 3 made it to day 5 blastocyst. My consultant wants us to get these pgta tested to see if I need another round of stims. It's just so hard to know what to do. In December. We had 7 eggs but 0 fertilised by day 1. What is pergoveris? I will read up on it. Did you use it?xx
ah that’s great. So many couples only go by the sperm analysis and aren’t advised to do the dna frag test too, Very unusual for zero fertilisation if no issues with the sperm but ivf is so complex, anything can happen unfortunately. You are still so young so please god success is just around the corner of you, I understand it’s so hard to make a decision with what to do. Is it possible for you to get a second opinion? I got three different opinions in my days 😌 yes I have used pergoveris in my last cycle was it was my best yet 👌🏽 And I am 42. I have also used gonal, menupor and others. X
We have had so many opinions throughout the past few years. We kind of want to go with our clinic and put the faith in them. Do you mean a second opinion in the same clinic or elsewhere? Did you do your ivf abroad or in the UK? It's all just a minefield isn't it! Xxx
Aw I see, sounds like ye have covered everything really and it's down to making a final decision. Yes I was meaning different opinions from different clinics. No I had treatment in my home country Ireland.
We had our first round of ivf in Belfast - were from Northern Ireland. Where abouts in Ireland did you have treatment? We had looked at some clinics in Dublin but opted to go to Spain in the end up. Its crazy how much it takes over your life isn't it!xx
Hello! I have endometriosis too and have had two laps previously. I also have very low AMH (.28 - the devastation when I found this out was unmatched). My first round IVF they only got two eggs, one of which was transferred fresh on day 3 but failed.
My doctor has changed my medication protocol this time around, but also discussed another lap for endo to ensure there’s a good spot for the embryo and to get eggs with better quality for the next go. I had that surgery last month and now am in the second round. Four eggs were collected this time, 3 fertilized, and my day 3 fresh transfer will be tomorrow where they’ll transfer two. We will hopefully freeze the third. I’m praying this will be a good outcome for me this time.
That being said - I’ve spoken with two women in my circle who both have endo, had the surgery prior to starting a new round, and both have had success immediately after. In my heart I do believe there is something to it. Good luck and sending all the baby dust to you ❤️
Thank you so much for your message Aussielover23. You have been through a lot and I'm sure at this stage you are exhausted. 4 eggs collected and 3 fertilised is incredible. I really hope all goes well for you tomorrow and I will be thinking of you. What stims were you on this time if you don't mind me asking?
Did you have your fallopian tubes removed? That's what I need to get done. That's really promising about the 2 women you know. Do you know what their surgery was?
Sending you all the luck for tomorrow 💗 you got this xxx
Thank you so much, I appreciate your thoughts! ❤️ I’m cautiously hopeful.
My protocol this time involved less injections. My doc put me on a five day course of Chlomid pills, and then I did 3 or 4 days of 150 Follistim and two vials of Menopur. I then did two days of the Follistim at 150 with 3 vials of Menopur and Ganirelex to stop ovulation before my trigger shots.
I did not have my tubes removed, although I do have one blocked tube. The two other women I know did not either - just a lap for their endo that worked favorably for their next transfer. I have read that surgery for hydrosalpinx is beneficial before transfer. I’m so sorry I can’t help more with knowledge or experience there. I wonder if not doing surgery would continue to impact your AMH though. AMH is only one piece of the puzzle so it’s so hard to navigate. Keep us posted on your journey. Wishing you all the very best, and whatever you decide, will be right for you. ❤️❤️
I hope all went well for you today aussielover23 and that you are cosied up at home relaxing!Your protocol sounds really interesting. It is just so difficult to know what works and what doesn't. I agree about amh, the reason behind me doing these cycles before surgery was to try to preserve my amh for egg collections but in our last 2 cycles, the first one got cancelled and the last one resulted in 0 fertilisation.
Sending you all the luck for today and the next few weeks. Positive vibes xxx
Thank you so much! ❤️ the transfer went well - my doctor transferred two 8 cell embryos so really praying one or both are successful. Unfortunately I got the call this morning that the third we were hoping to freeze looks like it’s not going to make it. It was only a 6 cell so I can’t say I’m surprised, but still upsetting to hear. Such a roller coaster for sure.
When will you know more about the direction you’ll be taking? Sending you all the positive thoughts and vibes! X
Awh I am delighted to hear that the transfer went well ❤️ I am really sorry to hear about your third little embryo. It is really upsetting but you need to focus on those two precious little embryos inside you. I hope you took it really easy and relaxed this weekend. If you don't mind me asking, what is an 8 cell embryo? I have only used the terms like 5bc - the number and the grading. Is your clinic in the UK?
I spoke to my consultant again today. I had spoken to him on Friday and he wanted to know what we are doing regarding pgta with our little embryos. I physically couldn't bring myself to ask for them to be pgta tested - I just really worried about so much handling of them. He spoke to the Embryologist on Friday and got back to me this morning. We only have 1 embryo that might survive all the handling. The other 2 have a worse grade so we are holding off pgta. I am going to have surgery and then go again for another round (please God everything will be OK). I've spent most of today trying to see where I am on the waiting list - no answers though. Did you have your laproscopy through NHS?
Hi I have stage 4 endo I had to do a freeze all but ten of my 19 fertilised maybe like some of the other ladies have said it could be the type of medications used / type of protocol didn't suit you and needs adjusting.
Funny what different consultants say when I was diagnosed from MRI and ultrasound scans with Endo and before proceeding with protocol for the egg collection part I asked the consultant weather I would require any surgery to remove the endometriosis prior to IVF treatment and was told no.
I need the surgery to remove my fallopian tubes as they have hydrosalpinx which is toxic to an embryo. When we did ivf in Northern Ireland I was told I didn't need surgery but when we explored abroad, all the clinics said my tubes needed to go. 19 eggs is just amazing and to have 10 fertilise is class. That so good. Do you remember what meds you were on?
Oh sorry to hear that you have to have your fallopian tubes removed so you have two things going on really with hydrosalpinx and the Endo . Sorry I don't really know what hydrosalpinx is i haven't heard about it before. And thankyou sorry my memory is rubbish I was on meriofert and not sure about the other I think it was cetrotided xx
Don't apologise - I wouldn't expect anyone to know what hydrosalpinx is unless they had experience of it. I really wish I didn't know anything about it. It is toxic to an embryo and is caused from the endometriosis. My consultant thinks the endometriosis is damaging my egg quality so it's just a bit of a head melt at the moment. Thank you xxx
Hey I have stage 4 endometriosis and had surgery to remove a hydrosalpinx (left tube removed), large cyst and superficial endometriosis after I had had two rounds of IVF with very poor results. I did two further IVF rounds following my surgery with a new clinic, protocol and tried also using testosterone for 21 days before starting stimulation (pergoveris), with down regulation using the pill and my egg quality showed a definite improvement. I'm now 29 weeks pregnant from my 4th cycle. It took a while to find the right factors to make it work for me but I definitely felt surgery helped! My fertility clinic were amazing and told the surgeon exactly what needed to be removed etc to try to improve IVF results. My AMH went down only slightly after the surgery.
Hi MD54999, congratulations on your wonderful news. This is amazing. Was your AMH low before surgery? In October 2024 mine was 2.3 so I am worried about the impact surgery will have on it. That's great your clinic changed your protocol and told the surgeon exactly what needed to be done. Was your clinic in the UK or abroad? Thank you for sharing your amazing news and congratulations once again xxx
Thank you!♥️ I definitely get the concerns around surgery impacting AMH. It's a difficult decision to make. I really felt like I had no other option except surgery after I had bad results from my two first rounds and the clinic felt my Endo and blocked tube were so detrimental to my IVF outcomes that it was worth the risk. They also had problems with accessing my eggs due to Endo which surgery helped with. My AMH was 14 before surgery and 12.9 after surgery. My clinic is in Dublin, happy to PM you the name but they don't have UK branches unfortunately. Good luck with your decision and sending you lots of support ♥️
Do you mind me asking what was your ivf outcomes before surgery? Yes please could you pm me the name. I am in Northern Ireland. Did you get your surgery done in Ireland too? Thank you so much xxx
Yes of course. The first cycle I had 4 eggs collected but zero fertilized. The second cycle I had 12 eggs retrieved, and froze two embryos from those but at the lowest quality grade (cc) and did two transfers but neither was successful. Yes I got my surgery done in Dublin too, will PM you the details.
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