4th round IVF, new clinic not prescri... - Fertility Network UK

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4th round IVF, new clinic not prescribing same (or any) treatments for thin lining.

emma_g87 profile image
17 Replies

TL;DR: I have a phonecall with the Medical Director of my new IVF clinic today. Looking for advice on treatments have you had for thin lining, particulalry those used during a fresh cycle. My new clinic refusing to prescribe Viagra/Sildenafil even though I have had during previous rounds.

Hi, I'm in the process of arranging my 4th round of IVF, following two miscarriages and one unsuccessful implantation.

A bit of background context. My first three rounds of treatment were in Scotland (at the GRI (ACS), a very well respected NHS unit in a large hospital). I've since had to move south to Oxfordshire because my husband is in the military - we had no choice about the timing of this move. So, even though we were happy with our previous clinic and would have paid for private treatment there if we could have stayed in Scotland, we have had to find a new clinic now that we have relocated to the other end of the country.

During previous rounds the persistent problem I have had has been with achieving a thick enough lining for transfer. My previous consultant prescribed me with viagra (sildenafil) pessaries in order to help with this. It did seem to have some effect, particularly during my final FET there, when we reached 7.2mm.

However, my new clinic is saying that they do not prescribe viagra at all. This came as a disappointment as my preference would be to take the learning/data that has been gained from previous cycles and build from there. They are also saying that the maximum dose of stims they can give me is lower than what I received at the clinic in Scotland.

While I understand that not all medicines are used across different clinics, it did come as a surprise to me that the clinic do not intend to do anything at all to help thicken my endometrium during the planned fresh cycle. Their preferred approach is to 'see what happens' during the fresh cycle and if the lining is not thick enough, freeze any embryos and try again during an FET. This seems really unsatisfactory to me. Particularly as my history clearly shows that we have only ever managed to get one embryo from each cycle (sometimes 2 or 3 fertilised but each time only one survived beyond that). My concern is that this history is being ignored and the chances are massively increased of us either (i) having to go forward with a sub-optimal transfer with a thin lining or (ii) losing the embryo before its possible to freeze them.

I know that the evidence on what works to achieve an optimal lining is mixed. But am wondering what treatments others have received to support with this, and what the outcome was? (also whether your nurse/ consultant commented on how widespread/accepted these treatments were). I'd like to speak to the Med Director having done some degree of prep on what things might be considered. E.g. I have seen there is some good evidence out there on the use of Vitamin E supplements - although the amount of available research is quite limited.

Thanks in advance!!

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Endofitall profile image
Endofitall

are you committed now to use this clinic or could you go elsewhere? I’d be very unhappy to use a place that wasn’t going to use the learning from my previous cycles. If viagra has worked for you, and you’ve needed a particular stims dose before, seems bizarre to ignore that.

emma_g87 profile image
emma_g87 in reply toEndofitall

Thanks. No, not 100% committed but as I live a bit more remote now the options are limited. My conversation with the medical director today is a last ditch attempt before I put time and effort into trying to find a new clinic).

Endofitall profile image
Endofitall in reply toemma_g87

I understand. I’ve had vaginal viagra which worked well in fresh cycles for me in past. Natural/modified natural FETs worked better for me but I only get to 7mms max often 6.5mm.

However medicated FETs were terrible for me (barely getting to 4-5mm and often lining disintegrating on higher doses oestrogen patches pills pessaries). Also had clexane during stims which can help but I was on it for APS anyway.

I really hope they listen.

I recently replied to someone about all the things I’ve tried for my thin lining issues herehealthunlocked.com/fertilit...

I do think it can be quite cycle dependent though! As I do all the same things each time to boost it and sometimes it can get to decent enough and other times it doesn’t 🤷🏻‍♀️

editing to add that viagra prescribed by consultant in a CARE clinic and they also did NHS treatment so not a weird niche private clinic thing.

Zel64 profile image
Zel64

Hi,

My lining has consistently been a problem & I was put on Viagra/Sildenafil by my clinic (Aberdeen) during my last cycle which definitely helped before my FET (on frozen rather than fresh transfers as I need to use donor eggs due to another medical issue). My Sildenafil was taken orally & I know Viagra can be purchased over the counter so might be worth asking your clinic if you could do that?

Greenbunny9 profile image
Greenbunny9 in reply toZel64

Hi Zel64 sorry to jump in here but I'm also at the same clinic & have persistent thin lining issues. I've mentioned Viagra to them in the past (on more than one occasion) but they've told me it's not something they do!! Just wondering if maybe it's because I'm NHS? Or are you also NHS? I would happily pay for it over the counter if they guided me on the dose etc.

Zel64 profile image
Zel64 in reply toGreenbunny9

Hey Greenbunny9, no problem. I’m an NHS patient (Scotland) & they happily give me Sildenafil/Viagra to help with my endometrial lining thickness as they want to avoid giving me any oestrogen medications because of a pre—existing medical condition where I shouldn’t have additional oestrogen. ‘Standard’ Sildenafil dosages are not written in the BNF (British National Formulary) for the purposes of helping with lining thickness so it’s usually the fertility experts who pick what dose to go with. Personally my Fertility Consultant recommended 50mg of oral Sildenafil (Viagra) twice daily for days 1 to 15 of my cycle though we did stop a few days early on the day of my trigger injection.

Greenbunny9 profile image
Greenbunny9 in reply toZel64

Thanks so much I really appreciate you taking the time to explain. I will query it with my consultant at Aberdeen.

Zel64 profile image
Zel64 in reply toGreenbunny9

No problem. Hopefully they’ll be able to give you an answer as to why you’ve previously been told it’s something they don’t do when clearly that’s not the case. If you have any issues I’m happy to let you know which of the Fertility Consultants recommended / prescribed it for me so you can get a second opinion if needed.

Greenbunny9 profile image
Greenbunny9 in reply toZel64

I will definitely take you up on that thanks so much. It's all such a minefield & whilst I try to be guided by what the professionals say & trust in the process it's hard when there's clearly conflicting information. I'm so grateful for this forum connecting me with the people in the know! Have you found the Viagra helped?

Zel64 profile image
Zel64 in reply toGreenbunny9

It is definitely a minefield. I’ve been lucky as I’m a complicated patient so I’m under a number of very experienced Consultants from both the Fertility & Gynaecology sides. They’ve always been very thorough & come up with plans jointly on the treatment & any modifications needed. Viagra definitely helped to improve my lining. Though the headaches the first time I took it were horrible - though Aspirin did help & was ok’d by Fertility.

Greenbunny9 profile image
Greenbunny9 in reply toZel64

It must definitely help knowing you are in safe hands. Glad to heat that you are finding improvements just a pity about the side effects. Hopefully it will all be worth it in the end!

Zel64 profile image
Zel64 in reply toGreenbunny9

Yeah I’m hoping we’ll get there. To date I’ve had 2 embryo transfers - the first didn’t take but the second transfer did though unfortunately I miscarried at 15 weeks (had all sorts of tests to see if they could identify a cause with either myself or the foetus & they couldn’t identify anything so the plan is for me to have a cervical cerclage if the next round is successful as they agree it could have been due to cervical incompetence/weakness).

Greenbunny9 profile image
Greenbunny9 in reply toZel64

Oh no I'm so sorry for your loss. This journey is so cruel. Good that they have a plan in place already for next time. Truly wishing you success & all the luck in the world for a happy outcome ❤️

Zel64 profile image
Zel64 in reply toGreenbunny9

Thank you. Infertility (for whatever reason) and IVF are definitely a challenging rollercoaster of experiences & emotions. Wishing you all the best for your treatment too. + if there is anything I can help with just let me know Xx

Endofitall profile image
Endofitall in reply toGreenbunny9

Just to add I’ve been prescribed this vaginally just using the normal oral viagra 50mg tablets (I scraped off the blue coating!) using half a tablet (25mg) four times a day from day 2 of stims to trigger which is the protocol used in Dr Sher’s famous paper showing benefit. My consultant said it was no different to using Progynova (estrogen) tablets vaginally which many have to do in FET cycles also. It did help with my lining when I used it. I have low blood pressure so didn’t want to risk taking it orally plus the evidence is vaginal is best. Good luck

Greenbunny9 profile image
Greenbunny9 in reply toEndofitall

Thank you Endofitall that is really helpful. I will take this info to my clinic & hope they take it on board. I'm so glad to hear that you found it helped with your lining. I feel in despair sometimes as nothing ever seems to work!

HelzBelzUK profile image
HelzBelzUK

I’ve never really struggled with my lining for fresh transfers as I have so many follicles it’s always a decent thickness.

For FET’s however it is shocking. It only got to 6.7mm on 12mg oestrogen and 200mcg oestrogen patches.

Our consultant doesn’t really like viagra and suggested I thicken my lining with a low dose gonal f. 75iu for 15 days got my lining to 9.6mm! Maybe you could suggest this??

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