Age 41. Third IVF cycle with ARGC. Wh... - Fertility Network UK

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Age 41. Third IVF cycle with ARGC. When should I call it a day?

Janie79 profile image
31 Replies

Hi everyone,

This is my first time writing here and hoping to get some advice from you all. I've had two unsuccessful IVF rounds at ARGC so far, which was devastating.

The first was a frozen cycle, due to the fact that I had to get surgery to remove fibroids. This one yielded 8 eggs, 6 fertilized and 3 made it to blastocyst. I put two back in but they failed to implant. The second cycle was a fresh one, which happened in April. I had 10 eggs, 8 fertilized but only one made it to blastocyst. So they put in a Day 3 embryo, along with the leftover frozen embryo from the previous cycle and the fresh one. Again, failed to implant. I'm concerned that my blastocyst count dropped from 3 to 1 in less than 5 months. I've also noticed my periods have reduced considerably since I started IVF — from 4-5 days to around 3 days. Have I become a lot less fertile in just six months?

I am about to do a 3rd cycle with ARGC in June. As I'm 41, I'm suspecting that the problem is poor egg quality as the clinic said my husband's (he is 47) sperm was fine. I've started getting acupuncture treatments (with Darren Rose) as well as supplements including CoQ10, Omega 3, Spirulina and prenatal multivitamins in preparation for my 3rd cycle. I have no known health conditions, I quit smoking last October before I started my first cycle, and I'm now on a high protein, no caffeine, reduced alcohol consumption, healthy diet.

As you probably know, ARGC is eye-wateringly expensive and I'm not sure whether to spend all my savings on a 4th cycle if this one fails, or just call it a day. Would love to hear any success stories and/or tips from women close to my age who have a similar experience? Am I just too old to continue with my own eggs?

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JA-fnuk profile image
JA-fnukPartnerNurseFertility Network UK

If passing on any details of private clinics please do so by private messageThank you

Janet

Sorry things haven't worked out for you so far. Have you had a review appointment with your clinic? They can tell you what happens to your embryos over the 5 days which often tells them a lot about egg quality.

To be honest getting to blasto is still a good thing even if you only got one there last time - and that is only one round and so many variables can affect the round so I personally wouldn't be giving up quite yet but instead see what this next round brings and make a decision from there.

I am other end of scale though in that I had 6 fresh rounds (never had enough to freeze). My clinic told me whilst I was getting to day 5 it was 'fair enough' to keep going. But after the last two rounds resulted in only morula's on day 5 they reviewed my embryo progression and they slowed down dramatically after day 3 which is a sign of an egg quality issue.

You will hear from loads of women on here who have fantastic positive stories about own egg success at 41/2/3/4 etc so it can happen. My sister got pregnant and had her children on rounds 7 and 8 at 40 and 42 for example. I am now 44 and have been advised to look at donor after the 6 rounds, where I had some mixed success but even if it did work I sadly always MC.

I guess what I am saying is 3 rounds not working actually isnt necessarily a sign that things are doomed, there is an element of luck. But I do think you should speak to your clinic and get their take on things.

Good luck x

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to

Thanks so much for sharing your story Hidden . I'm having my review appointment tomorrow and so will need to hear what the doctor advises. That's great to hear about your sister — wow, it must have taken her so much strength to do 7 and 8 rounds. Yes, I do suspect with me it is an egg quality issue as the 2nd cycle that yielded 8 fertilized eggs all looked good at Day 3 and then they just stopped growing (except for the one that made it to blasto).

Running79 profile image
Running79

Hi, I’m at a different London clinic to you (I won’t mention the name on here) - I’ve just had a quick look at your clinic prices and tbh for a London clinic they are not too bad in comparison to other London clinics.

So I’m now 41 and my husband is 59. We started when I was 37/38 yrs old.

Hubby had normal sperm analysis along with a DNA fragmentation test, which highlighted slightly low on the morphology (shapes) so they suggested we had ICSI.

First round, I had a polyp so whatever we got needed to be frozen, had 2, 5 day blasts from a hall of 21 eggs pretty disappointing!!

First FET implanted and I MC the week before our 7 week scan. The second failed to implant.

Cycle 2 I was 40 yrs old, seemed to be over in a flash really. 12 d RRRD gas collected and 3 made it to day 5 blasts - again pretty disappointing. We had a fresh transfer and the other two were PGTA tested. The transfer failed before test day and the other two were chromosomally abnormal and only fit for the bin.

Consultant appointment said we could have another go with my eggs, as I had a good AMH level for my age and ‘We might get lucky’

Discussed it with my husband and my family (as my in laws don’t know what’s going on) we decided that to spend another £12,000 on ‘getting lucky’ really wasn’t worth not only the money but to be disappointed at the end as I just knew my eggs in reality terms were not good enough- despite taking the majority of the vitamins from the book it ‘starts with the egg’

Both my younger sisters had already volunteered to donate, the older one has children the younger one doesn’t. Against the consultants suggestion we went with my youngest sister who’s 30, as she would be more regimented with the medication and also a donor cycle costs more then one that you were doing yourself.

So she had 24 eggs collected, again disappointingly we ended up with 3, 5 day blasts. They put 1 fresh one back and the others were frozen.

I’m 12 weeks today, nervously awaiting our 12 week scan on Thursday. Praying everything will be okay still.

I cut out alcohol completely, no chocolate, coffee or any other caffeine based product. I ate healthy and continued exercising.

The only other thing I did on the suggestion of the consultant was use Canesflor pessaries. It was either try that at £15 or have an ERA test at £2000.

I hate to say it unfortunately there are three paths for us older ladies - we kept spending the money and ‘we might get lucky’ we go with a donor egg and/or sperm or we call it a day

Not here to tell you what to do, this is our story and you can take as little or as much as you need from it

Good luck on your journey

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Running79

Thanks for sharing your story Running79 . Yes, I hear you on a lot of the points. I think we'll give it one more go with my eggs this time and then seriously consider donor eggs. You're so fortunate to have a sister who can donate eggs — and congrats on making it to 12 weeks! It must be nerve wracking but hang in there. Hoping I can reach that stage in the not too distant future.

Running79 profile image
Running79 in reply to Janie79

Thanks!!

You have to do what’s best for you at the end of the day!! Some people may say 3 rounds isn’t enough - this third round we had decided was the final one! If you’ve got a never ending pot of money, certainly keep going, because at some point you will find that lucky egg!!

I have to say I know several people who have conceived naturally in their 40’s, my auntie was one at 43. A friend of the family was 43 and 45 at the time she had her kids and a friend of my sisters was 41 when she had her first. So it can happen

Keep the faith 👍

Facingreality profile image
Facingreality in reply to Running79

Hi Running79Thanks for sharing.

Have you tried a different clinic? A new approach and capabilities might perhaps help.

Running79 profile image
Running79 in reply to Facingreality

Probably a bit late for me to change, I’m 12 weeks today with a donor egg 👍

Facingreality profile image
Facingreality in reply to Running79

Excellent!! Congratulations 🎊🎉🎊

leo1980 profile image
leo1980 in reply to Running79

Hi Running79, congrats on your BFP. Wishing you all the best for your 12 week scan. What is the canflo? I booked an ERA so just wondering if I should swap! Thanks

Running79 profile image
Running79 in reply to leo1980

Thanks - praying all is okay at the 12 week scan. You can buy Canesflor pessaries from a reputable high street chemist. Anyone can use them, I’m not saying it’s better then an ERA, it’s just that with our circumstances, our consultant recommended to us.

Whether they did any good or not - who knows 🤷‍♀️

It would probably be ideal to speak to your consultant to see what they think about them, and your circumstances

leo1980 profile image
leo1980 in reply to Running79

Thank you! I will give it a go..

Facingreality profile image
Facingreality

Hello, Janie79. Sending positive thoughts your way.Please do not give up. You could do freeze all cycles to bank your embryos, it will be less expensive financially and ensure you have embryos to keep trying with in future.

And PGS test to improve your chances could be a consideration.

(I had an egg collection a month after I turned 41 (years ago), 11 eggs, 10 fertilized, 5 blasts.

At the time, I did not have them tested, it was not a recommendation then.)

Re period change, perhaps consult a specialist to be on the safe side.

Keep going... hang in there. ☮️💜☮️

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Facingreality

Thanks for your message, Facingreality . I was actually advised against PGS testing by my clinic — the doctor told me that it might harm otherwise healthy embryos during the testing process?

Facingreality profile image
Facingreality in reply to Janie79

Hi Janie79

My consultant keeps pestering me to test my embryos (even raising his voice sometimes), it is an area of specialty for him. He never mentions risks or possible harm.

I refused because they would have to thaw, test and refreeze. Even though he said, it would be fine to thaw, test and refreeze, I was not comfortable. Perhaps a good decision.

I had transfer of one this week . Fingers crossed.

Thank you again.

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Facingreality

Fingers and toes crossed for you Facingreality !!!

Facingreality profile image
Facingreality in reply to Janie79

Thanks, Janie79!

Maui2020 profile image
Maui2020

Hi Janie, I was wondering if you’ve had any changes in protocol, as you seem to get a good number of eggs but, like me, there may be quality issues. I have found in 3 cycles that protocol can make a big difference to the blastocyst rate. Good luck xx

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Maui2020

Hi Maui2020 , thanks for your reply. My second round was a lot longer (14 days of stimulation, against the 10 days for the first round) and I was on max dose of fostimon for most of the second week. Yes, good point about the protocol — definitely something to ask the doctor today during my review meeting.

Maui2020 profile image
Maui2020 in reply to Janie79

Hi Janie, how did your review meeting go? I just had a bfn from my last frozen embryo, am soon to turn 41, and wondering what to do next.. similar to you i don’t know when it’s time to call it a day. I was also on a longer stimulation cycle this time (13 days), but I’ve had success with a 9 day stimulation. Also interesting to hear your Dr against PGS as my Dr wasn’t a big advocate either but I’m contemplating it if I go for another cycle. Did they make any suggestions for anything different? X

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Maui2020

Hi Maui2020 Sorry for my late reply! I'm sorry to hear you didn't have success on your last cycle. Did you have a review consultation yet with your doctor? My review meeting went really well and I left feeling a bit more optimistic and encouraged. The doctor said that my cytokines level was high and that she recommends starting humira before treatment. She also suggested my husband goes for a sperm DNA fragmentation test/review with a urologist and see if we need ICSI instead of IVF this time. The main thing she said was that she doesn't think I need to resort to DE just yet as I'm still producing a decent amount of eggs and they are fertilizing ok.

Maui2020 profile image
Maui2020 in reply to Janie79

Hey, that sounds really encouraging I’m pleased you have a good plan. I will do a follow up, but my clinic are always reluctant to do further testing and they don’t believe in a lot of the extra methodology and put everything down to rubbish embryos. I am having a follow up today with a new Dr to get some fresh eyes on the situation. It’s nice to see there is hope if we’re still producing eggs/blasts as I always wonder if it’s just giving me false hope xx

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Maui2020

Maui2020 I think that's a really good idea to get a second opinion. You never know what's really going on before doing tests, which aren't all that expensive if you think about how much we have to spend for IVF in the first place. Yes, from what the doctor said, making eggs and blasts is really the hardest part so I wouldn't lose hope just yet! Wishing you the best of luck and sending positive vibes your way. Let me know how you get on!

Marisa32 profile image
Marisa32

Hi, I'm also 41 and I remember doctors saying only 1 out of like 12 eggs is good at our age. So pregnancy is possible if you catch that 1 good egg, granted sperm is all good (no DNA fragmentation etc) and your plumbing works. I started pursuing DE treatment because of my low AMH, each IVF cycle only yielded 1 egg. Realistically...I couldn't afford a minimum of 12 IVF cycles to collect12 eggs. I got pregnant naturally though 20 weeks ago out of the blue, so yeah it can happen at 41. Maybe give it one more shot with your OE, PGS test the embies and if none are good....consider donor?

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to Marisa32

Thanks Marisa32 Congrats on your natural pregnancy! What a relief it must have been for you. Yes, I think you are right — after the first cycle failed, the doctor said the problem is probably egg quality. I've started a high protein diet and begun taking CoQ10, omega 3 and other supplements on top of weekly acupuncture. I'm not sure I completely believe these changes will make a massive difference to my 3rd cycle outcome but I can only try, right?

Marisa32 profile image
Marisa32 in reply to Janie79

Thanks. It was definitely unexpected, as I have mentally given up at that point. I tried fertility yoga few times because I didn't want to pay for acupuncture lol. I never took any supplements apart from prenatals. I have a thyroid condition and supplements often mess with medication, so I didn't want to risk making things worse. Hopefully you get lucky too but honestly, I was so ready for a donor, I just wanted to get it done and move on with my life. Good luck!

JoyfulStar profile image
JoyfulStar

I agree with Facingreality that a 3 cycle package may be the way to go. There are some clinics in London that you might end up paying just slightly more than what you are paying for one cycle at your current clinic.

Do they tell you how your embryos develop between days 1 to 3 and 3 to 5? There are many people that find out after lots of money spent that there may be some issues with the sperm. It may not be but worth checking.

I hope it all works out for the best! 🙏🏾

Janie79 profile image
Janie79 in reply to JoyfulStar

Thanks JoyfulStar . Yeah, the embryologist said that during my second cycle, all 8 fertilized embryos had divided nicely up until day 3 but had quite a bit of fragmentation and then dropped off on day 5 and stopped growing (except the one that made it to blastocyst). Does this tell me anything, you think?

JoyfulStar profile image
JoyfulStar in reply to Janie79

I would advice speaking to your consultant specifically about the fragmentation and if there is anything that can be done. I am aware that embryos with lots of fragmentation will rarely make it to day 5.

All the best 🙏🏾

Marisa32 profile image
Marisa32 in reply to Janie79

I believe someone mentioned on here that if embryos stop developing after day 3, sperm DNA fragmentation may be an issue. So definitely get that checked before doing any more cycles.

Missfh profile image
Missfh

Hi,

I'm 43 and did a failed cycle with ARGC in November. They were great and I felt very looked after. They put my chances of conceiving at under 10% per cycle which I think is probably very accurate.

I got 4 eggs, 4 mature, 2 fertilised which were both transferred on Day 2.

For various reasons I then did a much cheaper cycle with a clinic in Cape Town. I started meds with no scan or blood tests, and only had 2 or 3 scans before egg collection. One blood test for progesterone before egg collection but that was it.

Same result... 5 eggs, 4 mature, 2 fertilised and Day 3 transfer. I actually did get pregnant but it was a chemical. I'm not completely convinced that all the extra money and tests is worthwhile. I think if I was to continue I'd rather do 2 cycles at a clinic that's half the cost, but that's just me.

My next step is to use donor eggs which took me a while to get on board with but I feel very comfortable with that now.

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