My wife and I are undergoing reciprocal donation.. (they prepare and retrieve her eggs and transfer them to me.) Although I admit, it is our choice to do it this way and to put ourselves through the potential heartache of IVF, would you not want to carry your partner's baby? Essentially isn't that what men and women do? This is the closest way we could get to that.
We first went to the clinic almost 2 years ago now and it's felt like forever. We are not entitled to any funding as we are a same sex couple and could theoretically buy sperm over the internet and use a turkey baster in the privacy of our own home.....Couldn't other straight women do that if they knew it was their husband that was the reason they couldn't conceive naturally? But no, they don't tend to because they want to know the baby they are carrying is their partners. Same here. I'm not a big feminist, radical gay rights campaigner... We don't go to pride, we don't look the stereotypical way, we don't specifically socialise with gay people. It's just on this matter.. I do expect a bit of equality.
ANYWAY, rant aside, we finally reached the stage of embryo transfer on saturday.
Having now obsessively read all the literature and searched the internet (My wife and I are both Doctors and know better than to do this.. but we have anyway).. I'm now convinced this isn't going to work. How are the chances below 30%?? She had 22 eggs retrieved.. allegedly has no fertility problems.. yet only 1 was suitable for transfer on day 5. Is this normal??
We have our blood test on monday. Only 6 days to wait. But that feels like 6 days too long. What did people do in this time? Is there any signs to look out for to suggest it is/isn't working?
I don't know how many times we can afford to do this again.
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Welcome. Also in a same sex marriage. I’m having double donor IVF as I have diminished ovarian reserve and my wife is 42 so her AMH was too low for her to donate to me. It’s a beautiful thing that you are doing. We are hoping that if we have any spare embryos after I have a baby my wife can carry a sibling in the future.
We’re also far from being gay rights activists but it is frustrating that funding is not available for reciprocal IVF for lesbian couples. As for the success rates of ivf, you would know better as a doctor but I heard once that there is no other medical procedure you would consider performing on a regular basis with such poor success rates. For everything that can be done in a lab it still takes a little bit of magic or divine intervention whatever you want to call it to make a baby.
Your embryo to transfer rate doesn’t sound too great. Of the 22 eggs how many fertilised? You would expect a 70% fertilisation rate at least. I got 92% on my last batch of eggs fertilised. You then expect 25% of fertilised eggs to make blastocyst. We got 3 blastocysts from 12 eggs so this matched the stats. We used a proven sperm donor with 6 previous pregnancies.
Do you know the status of your sperm donor? Also do you know at what point the embryos stopped developing? These are all questions for the clinic. We got 12 out of 13 eggs fertilised, we thought we would get lots of blastocysts. By day 3 there were 6 embryos still going strong and 6 still going but looked weak. However by day 5 only 2 had made blastocyst and by day 6 one of the poorest originally made blastocyst. So technically we only got 2 from the 12. I do wonder about the quality of the lab etc. Especially since the embryos are not good quality either.
I’m hoping you get your BFP soon, the 2 week wait is a torture.
All you can do is keep busy. Symptom spotting will get you nowhere. Some women have lots of symptoms and get a negative result and some have no symptoms and are pregnant with twins. All we can do is hope and wait x
Thanks so much for replying so quickly. Yeh it's weird isn't it, on the day of the retrieval the emrbyologist was SO positive, it made me feel relaxed for the first time.. I assumed we'd get a phone call the next day saying at least 15 had fertilised, but it was only 8.. and by day 5 only one was a blastocyst.
I'm not sure about the sperm donor actually. It sounds stupid but I never really considered it. I just thought well if we're paying so much money for this sperm, it must be bloody good stuff!! If / When we start again, I'll look into previous pregnancy success. Thanks for mentioning that.
Thanks so much for the advice. In my 31 years, I've never been on a forum like this.. but it's really opened my eyes.
welcome to the ups and downs of the IVF world and the horrible waiting time! Unfortunately there is nothing you can do but wait. Some have symptoms, but even these can just be triggered by the drugs we take...so nothing is concrete until the blood/pregnancy test
Regarding the number of blastocysts, as they say its a numbers game. Try to get as many eggs as possible to get to a good fertilsation rate....Then unless you do PGS, they really don't know why the fertilised eggs didn't get to blastocyst. It could be the sperm, or the quality of the eggs...or if this is your 1st time with these drugs...it could be that this protocol/drugs didn't agree with your wife... Basically....you wont find any straight answers...only with trial and error
Welcome to the forum, this also felt quite alien to me too as I’m not one to share stuff usually. But this forum has been a huge support network.
I’m sorry to hear that they don’t offer funding for same sex couples, I have to say I find that unfair.
I had 21 eggs collected, with no known fertility issue. I ended up with 1 fresh transfer and 6 frozen, but I was surprised at how quick the numbers declined as they don’t prepare you for that.
I’m now nearly 8 weeks pregnant from my first ivf transfer, so just wanted to give you some hope as it only takes one. The only symptom I had was lower back pain before I got my positive result.
Wishing you and your partner all the best on this journey xx
Hello and welcome to the wonderful roller coaster that is IVF! I think it's utterly rubbish that you can't get funding as a same sex couple - I feel annoyed on your behalf.
Back to your eggs, did they say why only 1 was suitable? How many fertilised? Were they mature enough, or how many were deemed mature? What age and AMH is your partner? Did they tell you much about the sperm quality?
Only reason I ask so many nosey questions is that it took 3 rounds for my consultant to realise my follicles have to be super large to get a decent mature egg. So my last round I was really pushed with a massive dose of Menopur and a longer trigger shot, and my follicle sizes that yielded a mature egg were between 17mm and 26mm.
The first round is like a learning round for your protocol and how you respond, so if it works that's really lucky (that said, it does only take 1 egg, and it made it to day 5, which is great. What grade was the egg put back?).
I took LOADS of supplements too but that was down to age (40) and AMH (8). I think they helped but it was ultimately the protocol change.
We were really lucky last round and got 5 to freeze and 2 onboard. Currently 13 wks pregnant with twins, but one is poorly with fluid under the skin, which is breaking my heart into a million pieces. The roller coaster really never ends.
Anyway, I hope your little egg does the necessary and implants. The progesterone will give you loads of preggo symptoms but the one for me was bloating.
Good luck with it all, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you xx
Thanks for replying. And CONGRATULATIONS. Although, I can see now that IVF was just the first hurdle for you. I hope that everything works out for you and your twins.
They just said that of the 4 that made it to day 5.. only 1 was a blastocyst and graded as 'good'. The others were 'slow.' So 8 originally fertilised then gradually tapered off. Age wise - we're both 30 and fit and well as far as we know.
Re the sperm - No I was just saying on the post above.. because we've used a donor and paid a lot of money for it.. I didn't even think to look at previous successful pregnancies. So naively I assumed that, well he's got this far through the screening process, and it costs a hell of a lot.... it must be considered a very good quality for it to be sellable?! Stupid really. Should have known better!! I will know for next time.
Again, congratulations, and good luck with everything.
Thank you. I'm holding out hope, no matter how tiny, that the little one recovers at our next scan on Monday.
If for any reason this one doesn't take (and fingers crossed it does) then you'll get the chance to ask loads of questions to your consultant. I'd be asking about egg quality, egg maturity, how many fertilised, time of EC, what they would do differently etc etc. It sounds like your partner over stimulated a bit and that they brought it forward. In all honesty I bet they weren't all mature enough. She sounds like she has a good antral follicle count and I bet with a slight protocol change you'll have more at transfer stage if you end up doing a round 2.
Lets hope you don't need to, and this one sticks around xxx
Hi, I'm also in a same sex relationship, and I have very poor fertility.
Regarding the numbers, I don't find it that unusual that you've finished the cycle with one good embryo - many people don't even get one and have nothing to transfer.
If you think in a natural monthly cycle the body aims to produce one good egg to be fertilised, the drugs we take in ivf pump up the follicles to try to increase the chances of getting one or two viable eggs. But large numbers of follicles don't necessarily mean large numbers of embryos. It's quality, not quantity that counts here. If your wife doesn't have any fertility problems chances are that embryo you transferred will be good quality and will progress. I know it feels vety disappointing and nothing prepares you for how crappy this journey is, and the clinics don't tell you the grim reality when you start out. But you are in a good position right now.
Try not to torture yourself with looking for symptoms, there is not reliable formula. Try to take it easy, be nice to yourself.
Other things to consider, as others here have mentioned, include trying different protocols because some work out better for some people than others, and also how well the donor matches the egg. Occasionally you get a clash and changing donor can improve fertilisation rates.
Mentioned on my replies above to other people that I'm going to investigate the sperm a bit more in future. I think I was very naive about it.
I think we had issues because my wife was hyper-stimulated then the next thing we knew was they were bringing the egg retrieval date forward by 48 hours.
First of all. Welcome! And thanks for your candid greeting. You are both definitely not alone! My numbers sucked! I apparently have the ovarian reserve of an 18 year old, but only have two Frosties! Very frustrating! However what’s normal when we are all very different.
Second of all, web research may be a big no no usually in your profession of doctors , but the literature given at clinics can be aimed to a four year old. So all us girls are left with is the web and this amazing forum! I can’t stress enough that sifting through QandAs have helped me through this journey.
Can I ask you questions being doctors?
Do you both accept the reality of the one size fits all approach in IVF, or do you demand certain actions? I’m really pissed off at not doing a natural transfer, and being pumped full of hormones that I don’t think I need. My Oestrogens or testosterone hasn’t been low enough to warrant concern, but apparently I have to as that’s what’s everyone else does! I don’t accept this as a part of modern medicine and the fact I’m paying for the privilege. I’m too fat and too old for funding so I had to go private, and really frustrated that I can’t question why you would put a woman through unnecessary symptoms and mental health issues if she doesn’t need it. I’ve wrapped up the pessaries dispensers for the clinic with a fat bow on them, with a note that says
‘If a nurse hands these over to you and says it may slice your insides and cause infection, would you personally use them? What kind of animals would inflict this on another animal? Oh that’s right humanity!’
I’m also currently in bed with severe cramping from the oestrogen and progesterone. Always nauseous, don’t eat, depressed and this is days before my transfer... yay can’t wait for afterwards. Insert sarcasm here.
See how easy it is sharing personal information with strangers! 😂
With embryo Transfer I wish I had the answers. I’m literally going mad! A cheeky two nights away? Do something to treat yourselves? Something so unusual to take your minds away from it.
Wishing you love , luck and solace. If you find the latter please share.
Well bloody hell.. thanks for being so frank!! I think we all need a bit of a laugh going through this. Who bloody knew! Your sarcasm sums up a lot of my thoughts on this.
With regard to us being doctors, we're both in the surgery so we don't 'medically manage' patients. Of course we prescribe the occasional antibiotics and painkillers.. but this reproductive medicine area is SO far from my comfort zone and my level of understanding if I'm honest. My wife translates most of our appointments to me after we leave because I have no idea what happens in there and I struggle to take it all in. Doesn't matter what your IQ or background is.. taking all this information in when you're emotionally vulnerable is HARD and I don't think anything prepares you for that.
I also think they warn you about side effects, but not enough regarding the mental side effects. As you said yourself, you're battling with depression. I can completely understand how easy it is to fall down that spiral even if you haven't had bad news yet. The whole process is overwhelming to say the least.
Sorry to answer your question.. no I don't think one size fits all is EVER acceptable. All patients are unique and should be treated as such. But with the pressure on hospitals.. it's very difficult to provide this. So here we are... stuck.
I hope your gift wrapped pessaries are gratefully received and they're shared around the staff room at lunch time like a box of M&S shortbread.
Good luck with everything and really hope you feel better soon x
Good luck!!!!!!! I’m on my third cycle. My only issue that I’m aware of is blocked tubes and yet still no baby. First round I had 1 day 5 embryo from 10 eggs collected I think. Second round I got 3 embryos on day 5 from 12 eggs collected. This third cycle I got 7 day 5 embryos from 10 eggs collected. I’ve got older but my embryos have got increasingly better with no change in ivf drugs?! Only difference - I read it starts with an egg and followed the tips such as taking melatonin, ubiquinol, oh and the clinic advised me from the second round to take metformin.
Out of those 7 round 3 embryos, I’ve had 3 transferred - 2 failed to implant and I had a miscarriage with the third. The 4th is being transferred Thursday which will be number 8 in total since starting.
It’s a quick journey for some, very long for others.
I hope that you get your baby and I love how you are doing it with your partner’s egg inside you, that’s beautiful x
Thank you so much. I have a lovely partner and we have very supportive families and my colleagues are great too. I’ve told everyone about my journey as opening up helps me and I find that people then give me my resilience. Good luck to you x
I was given a 30% success rate and got pregnant after my second transfer. Is it a lack of symtoms that is making you feel disheartened? I didn't have any symptoms at all.
Just hold out for another 6 days and you'll know. Try to be positive. Best of luck!
It's hard but try not to focus on numbers. I only had 2 embryos in the end. Both made it to blastocyst but only the second stuck. Focus on keeping your body healthy and your mind calm. I really believe a positive mind helps... that was the biggest difference between my transfers.
Do something nice with your partner when you can. Watch funny movies, eat good food, hang out with people who make you thrive.
I’m ranting about the system on your behalf, this is so unfair and discriminatory!
You’re right, even with something as high-tech as IVF odds are low. My consultant says that once you have a good blast, chances are 50/50. So far, I’ve seen that confirmed: first transfer (second cycle) gave me my beautiful daughter. First ever FET from same second cycle became a BFN. Gearing up for another transfer soon.
Now, what’s also interesting is this: my first cycle was a disaster. Had 11 eggs collected so was quite chuffed. Fertilisation rates were almost conforming the statistics, but then... nothing. Fragmentation and cleavage issues. Nothing to transfer. From 11 to zero overnight. My consultant promised the second cycle could be entirely different. Changed the protocol (long to short), changed the key stimulating drug (Gonal F to Menopur) and got a double trigger to help egg maturity. True to his word and a long story short, I ended up with 8 super high grade blastocysts. First to transfer my girl, seven frozen! Key take away: they learn a lot about your body in the first cycle. That will make the second one one hell of a lot more productive in case the first cycle wasn’t great.
Oh, and a tip for when you do get out of this horrendous IVF journey at the other (happy) end: get a copy of Emily Oster’s “expecting better”. Look it up, I’m fairly sure it’ll appeal to you. Data-driven empowerment so you can take your own decisions which of the “pregnancy advice” to follow and which not.
Wow ok that's really interesting. I very naively thought it was pretty much always the same. I didn't realise they almost 'tailor-make' your treatment following unsuccessful first cycle. That gives me some hope.
Congratulations on your daughter (and 7 wonderful freezes!!)
I only hope I can share the same story as you in the future and make someone else feel more positive.
I was exactly like you and looked at the consultant incredulously when he first proclaimed this. I thought he was just saying it to make me feel better. But he clearly prove his point so all I can do now is spread the word! Sounds like your/your wife’s case might be similar. My next cycle had a few more eggs but it was the quality that was the biggest difference. I had a good number retrieved first cycle too, they just didn’t redeem themselves.
My daughter is my life and now we’re trying for a sibling (weird thought they were conceived on the same day!). First one didn’t stick, fingers crossed for round two.
Keep us posted, wishing you both the best! And any questions, please ask!
I’d never been on a forum and thought I’d never, but it’s saved my sanity to share with people going through similar rollercoasters and the anonymity makes it easier to be open and not feel judged...
Ha yes same, it's really not my cup of tea at all!!! But even since posting this afternoon, I've felt so much more supported and as if what I'm feeling is more normal! x
Good luck with everything it's really hard and just rubbish at times, most of the time. I start round 3 in July and terrified as I'm a poor responder. I'm married to a man but no funding so financially its crippling and still doesn't work. Just got to keep going. Il keep everything crossed for you x
Thank you, I married a man who had a child from a previous relationship. I naively believed I would be able to have one child naturally, I had no idea my amh was in the gutter. I'm 36 never tried to get pregnant before I met my husband im really healthy and looked after myself, i worked really hard at my career and getting my own home not previously been married. To top it off my husbands sperm count is in the gutter , less than 10 million. I know I thought the same and I'm sure he has, his ex had multiple affairs before she finally left him.
We will all get there in the end, I wont give up I simply cant allow myself to. The best thing I've worked out is life is just not fair once I excepted that I felt a bit better. Lots of luck to you both xx
Oh wow, I had no idea that would exclude you from funding. That's absolutely awful. God, I really hope everything works out for you. Horrible to be punished for being career focused and wanting that sorted before starting your family. Surely that's what we should be encouraging women to do.
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3 day transfer with 1 or 2 Embryos? I only have 2 :(
14 days post 3 day transfer = BFN
Success with 3 day transfer of two embryos?
I'm stuck a day 3 or a day 4 transfer 
Any wisdom on day 3 transfers?
