Hello - I just found this forum and am hoping to expand my knowledge of Diabetes II and alternative treatments.  I have been Type II for about 10 years, and taking Metformin until about 6 months ago when I started finding out about its damaging side effects.  I began to experience increasing foot neuropathy and numbness in hands as well. and B12 deficiency Taking B12 injections has helped, and adding R Lipoic acid supplements. I did discover an herbal remedy that works far better than Metformin - the dried, powdered leaves of the Neem tree - 1000 mg capsules, twice a day and my blood sugar stays below 90 for the most part, and only elevates to 120 or so with meals. I do monitor it very carefully and keep the Met on hand, but so far in 6 months I have had no side effects, and no longer need  pharmaceutical medication - I harvest my own Neem from an organically grown tree in my yard and prepare carefully weighed capsules. I ran across this remedy by accident after accidentally ingesting some Neem powder (which I have been using as an insect repellent) when my son decided to add it to some spaghetti sauce thinking it was something else!  I freaked out, and started researching it for toxicity. What I found was some information that it had no toxicity, but could result in lowering blood sugar levels, so I immediately started monitoring very closely, and found that consistent doses really stabilized my glucose levels.  I am wondering if anyone else has had experience with this ?

17 Replies

  • Welcome to the group.

    Have you talked to your doctor about the Neem and let him/her know you've been using it?

    Please check out dealing with feet issues.

    Enjoy your day!

  • Yes - he said it seems to be working and is not dangerous, so continue but keep monitoring.

  • How low does he want your numbers to be while using the Neem?

  • The current A1C which is 5.8, he says is completely normal and keeping it there is optimal. He says my fasting glucose can be higher but not lower than current levels of 80 - 95. It is very easy to reduce the Neem by a single capsule, though. I take one 500 mg after dinner and another before bed.  Two in the morning with breakfast. 

  • What do you usually eat at breakfast?

  • Organic steel cut oatmeal and small portion of fruit, sometimes yoghurt (non-dairy) with a spoonful of chia seeds. Other days a poached or scrambled egg with chopped veggies with organic corn tortillas.  I am gluten and dairy intolerant, so very few carbs. I have a hard time with breakfast as nothing is appealing.  

  • I eat breakfast bars everyday.  The ones I get are gluten free and can come in a three box set if you go to Sam's Club or Costco.  They may also have the bars at GNC, but you'd have to ask them if they carry the bars and how much one at a time costs if bougjht not in a warehouse like place(Sam's Club/Costco).

  • Wish I could!  Do not have SAMs or COSTCO in Costa Rica.  Just as well - I make it a rule not to eat any prepared foods.  I have spent over 60 years growing, canning and home preparing everything-  kids with severe processed food issues. Breakfast bars would be perfect, though - hmmm  another project for my energy deficient system . . . . 

  • See if a local store near you has Premium Protein bars.  I use those for breakfast and Premier Protein bars.  They have 30 grams of protein in each bar (Premier Protein).

  • Is there a strong history of diabetes or problems with blood sugar levels in your family.  If so, it may be that you actually have one of the MODY variants rather than type 2 diabetes. About 2% of diabetics are actually MODY rather than either type 1 or 2 but GPs are generally unaware of it.  Some types of MODY don't respond well to metformin so if you have been consistently having problems controlling levels whilst on metformin that may be the reason.

    One variant of MODY runs in my family - onset between 30 and 45 - and it doesn't respond particularly well to metformin - but does respond well to other medications.  It's the result of dominant genes so if you have the gene you develop diabetes ... my brother drew the short straw on that one.

    If you are receiving injections for B12 then metformin shouldn't be an issue any more in relation to processing B12 - in fact some studies imply that metformin, whilst it inhibits absorbing B12 in the gut, actually makes the body more efficient at processing the B12 once it has been absorbed.

    If you want more support in dealing with the symptoms of a B12 deficiency or thoughts on how to treat a B12 deficiency caused by an absorption problem then you might find joining the PAS forum useful

    Possible that metformin isn't the only factor as your ability to absorb B12 tends to decrease as you get older due to lowering acidity levels in the gut - and as the symptoms of low acidity are very similar to high acidity it can be mistreated making the problem worse.

  • NO idea about a "strong" genetic link - but my grandmother was diabetic, don't know if type 2 or not. I did respond to the Metformin very well, but it seemed to cause my B12 level to plummet!  I now take B12 sublingually and it is way up now.  Strange that for type 2 a significant weight loss had no effect. I lost about 50 lbs over course of a year - not by choice, just struggling with several health issues and trying to get used to new Titanium knees and hips. I have wondered why the diabetes did not reverse - I am certainly no overweight now, but there was no change in the diabetes until I started using the Neem powder.

  • MODY is a dominant gene so if you have the gene you develop the diabetes - hence the strong family history - some forms are quite mild and may only be picked up by accident - does sound as if MODY isn't a problem for you.

    Yes, metforming is not good for B12 absorption.  You mention an operation - do you know if you had nitrous oxide as an anaesthetic.  nitrous oxide is a super oxidiser when it comes to B12 putting it in a state where the body can't use B12 so it can be a tipping point in the development of a B12 deficiency that pushes you into crisis - so if symptoms got a lot worse at the point when you had the operation then that might explain.

    Good that sublinguals are working for you

  • I have never had Nitrous Oxide to my knowledge, other than one episode at a dentist many years ago. I have had a good many surgeries over the years, but general and spinal anesthesia were used. I suspect I had the B12 deficiency un-diagnosed, for many years.  Looking back at the many times I crashed and ended up hospitalized for one reason or another, I suspect It was tied to B12 along with other factors.  A couple of colon resections for cancer following episodes of severe duodenitis probably permanently compromised my digestive system and now I have a malabsoption problem and need to supplement sublingually or by injection.  Getting the thyroid back on track is a real challenge because of this as well. The diabetes, I am beginning to think, is the result of untreated hyperthyroid that was triggered by years of statin use. Very scarey stuff, these drugs.  I recently read that new studies  show statins may also be linked to alzheimers due to its depriving the brain of critically needed cholestrol. 

    I am happy to have my Blood sugar completely normal without drugs - as long as my Neem tree keeps me supplied. 

    Doctors really seem to be in the dark other than trying to throw expensive patent drugs at everything to just eliminate symptoms.

  • Hi, Like you diabetic since 1999 in treatment for balacing blood sugars 'metformin' I also discovered that metformin can and does deplete vit' B12, vital to good brain health and function.............................could be risking dementia in the long run due to just that................................also not to sure that a catch up with B12 does now have the required effect, seems unlikely so I'll check that again. Although for now I still take metformin. I have over the last 4-5 weeks been taking vit' D3 at 5000iu per day, to give between 80 to 100 ng/ml in the blood as a constant, so far the chronic pain I had with diabetic peripheral neuropathy has diminished to a tolerable level, now able to leave my wheelchair after 18 months and walk tentively for now but getting stronger each day, the only drugs offered for the pain were psychoactive antidepressants and antiepilectic drugs and these only marginal, other than that if it got intolerable ' morphine' all these drugs sapped whatever life you thought you may have left in you, emotionally flat, unresponsive and trying to live with constant background of a depressed mind. Well the good news is I have been able to ween myself off the all the psychoactive drugs, slowly over around a month. and only metformin left and the drugs for stabilising blood pressure and a statin at night. My whole demeanour has done a 'U' turn, I'm now happy, talkative, joyfull and liberated from pain both physical and emotional however there is a problem for others me being happy and that is some think I'm hypomanic that's a laugh in it's self..........but who cares what those who live a sheltered life think , I don't and never could. There is growing evidence that D3 is having an effect on glycemic control, like the Neem extract you have been discovering..............................We really have to look after our selves and study and try to stay ahead of the game..........................there  are vast amounts of investment tied up in the standard treaments we have for now therefore will not readily aknowledge the credibility of any new, blinded by money and don't want it to change, and who are they...........................guess.

  • In some of my online research for information about meds that were prescribed for me I discovered that there is a very real possibility that another of the many evil side effects of Statins is triggering Hypothroidism that is often misdiagnosed as pre-Diabetes II, and which then causes actual development of Diabetes - many symptoms are identical. My history would tend to support that theory - on statins for years, then Diabetic and finally checked out the Thyroid which is way off. I was taken off Statins  by an insightful Doctor a few years ago who was trying to determine the cause of my severe joint pain.  A few weeks after quitting the Statin, the pain went away - for a  while.  But the damage was permanent, and I eventually had to have knee and  hip replacements . I am sworn off of all pharmaceuticals unless an extreme emergency requires short term use. The Neem also tends to lower blood pressure, and Vitamin D3 + K2 in large doses can repair a huge number of health problems.  We have been purposely steered away from this valuable healing resource, being told it is "toxic" (a lie!) yet it is being developed into a high priced patent drug for cancer and many neurologic disorders. Since they can't patent a natural substance, they are developing a formula that includes mega doses of Vitamin D3 along with other invented ingredients to make it profitable.  Guess what?  Just take the D3 and K2 !!!  it is cheap and amazingly effective.  I have read a lot of material from many sources and they are pretty much in agreement -toxicity is rare, and happens when K2 is left out.  the U.S. NIH (National Institute of Health) has thousands of research results on its data bank of documents :

    which can be searched for specific details of studies on whatever item you are interested in.  I believe most medical professionals are well-meaning and well-intentioned, but they have been sold the Pharma line, and educated to make us feel better with expensive patent drugs while the underlying causes continue to escalate and keep us on more and more meds which mask symptoms, but do not cure disease.   

    Functional Medicine is a very real revolution gaining momentum worldwide.  What a concept!!  find the cause of the illness before treating it.  It is not a difficult or terribly expensive thing to do simple mineral and toxic chemical/metal analysis using hair samples and urine as well as blood to find out what is happening inside the cells.  Of course that means learning how it all really works together instead of what patent drug will disappear the symptoms.  A lot of information about what NOT to do becomes available as well.

    Sorry for the long-winded rant!  I am so tired of being kept ill so drug companies can milk me.

  • Thanks for your great responce I really do appreciate your cutting edge insights something I try to do regulaly, the National Institute of Health as a font to check with, will , from now on, be used to not only to keep me informed and as a double check, but used to stop the doubting voices and frankly deluded and fixated I often come across. We are not cynical, far from it, and refuse to be sheep, knowledge is power and we use it for all. Joining the dots together on long term, serious disorders and treatments, it soon becomes apparant that the drugs ,whilst for some help, need to keep taking them long term no maintain the benefit !! This the perfect solution for long term profitability for the manufacturer. Perhaps one the most glaring of money making machines of all time has to be the vast range of drugs used in the field of psychiatry, the returns to the big phama' co's is astronomical, the indications are, that every new problem is seen as a treatable  condition, by the big commitee's of the American Psychiatric Association and partners in decision making...........yes the the Pharma' companies ready invent yet another 'new' drug or adapt existing. The psychaitrist's bible for more and more drugs is the the DSM 5, book of symtoms to match those of your patient with no if's or buts and no science just observation is the gateway to diagnosis and presciptions for more and more drugs..................................all of this now being highly scrutinised by government health watch dogs, as if it was not already known. It is thought the value to to the pharma' Co's, in or abouts $ 300 billion world wide in psychiatrc drugs alone !! Recent revelation's the manufacturers in law suits against them in that long term use of many of these drugs induce wieght gain leading to diabetes for many. Hundreds of millions of dollars paid in compensation although this seems a drop in the ocean compared to turnover values. There is a loser in all of this as in many money spinners and its NOT those on the gravy wagon, we all know who, it could be all of us wittingly or not. Are we cynical ???  :-(

  • Brilliant