What Doctors Don't Tell You: DIABETES - THE SCANDAL OF HUMAN INSULIN

healthy.net/Health/Article/...

In one study, a water soluble extract of Gymnema leaf was given to 27 type I diabetics at a dose of 400 mg/day for 10-12 months. During the study, their insulin requirements were decreased by about half, and their average blood glucose was reduced from 232 to 152 mg/ dL. Cholesterol, triglycerides and amylase (an enzyme that breaks down sugar) were also significantly lowered. In contrast, in study patients taking insulin therapy alone, these and other biochemical markers remained high (J Ethnopharmacol, 1990; 30: 281-94).

In two animal studies, Gymnema extract doubled the number of islet and beta cells in the pancreas of diabetic rats, lending support to the theory that it increases insulin secretion by regenerating beta cells (J Ethnopharmacol, 1986; 18: 143-6). But, as encouraging as these results are, remember that animal research often doesn't apply to humans. ........

.......... Nobody is suggesting that type 2 diabetics discard diet exercise and start taking herbs. However, botanical research provides a useful way of taking our thinking about diabetes into a new direction.

also

omicsonline.org/open-access...

31 Replies

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  • I am not an animal cure @anup , so I confirm the above study results of Gymnema applies to humans as well, depending on my personal experience and I will prove it with my SCIENTIFIC REPORTS down the months. I have started walking also from today...so yes exercise and walking would always benefit a diabetic particularly apart from carb restriction.

    Today my FBS was 92 mg/dl and PPBS after 2 hours of breakfast was 139mg/dl where I had Aloo Paua (a marathi dish...I think...which we use as breakfast or dinner sometimes)...with lunch where I ate 3 wheat rotis with ghee, cabbage/beans sabji and half a katori arhar daal...was only 104 mg/dl.

  • Great Ashka9 ..... there are many who are benefited with Gymnema...

    Nothing wrong in trying out if it helps...

  • It will help all diabetics as per my opinion and taking bunch of herbs together helps more because it has a synergistic effect. Karela tablets also I am taking is benefiting as well. I have increased the dose since I was taking only one tab in morning which was not sufficient. Dose is atleast 1-2 tablets twice a day for each one of them.

    I gone through research studies on internet yesterday and found that Gymnema increases insulin secretion by beta cell regeneration and even other herbs present in Diabecon DS tablet I am taking helps in glucose metabolism as well.

  • First prove that gurmar regenerates beta cells. Rest we can talk later. If gurmar elevates insulin levels, then not interested. If n=1 of yours is science, then I have consumed more than 400 capsules of meshshringhi from Himalaya with zero impact.

    So my n=1 is a FAIL.

    BGR 34 is a fail for more than n=1 from real world.

    Not just gurmar I have taken gugulu, meshshringhi, karela, neem, guduchi etc too. There was a time during early days when my monthly bills with Himalaya used to be 1000+ bucks. All were a sheer waste of money.

    Elevating insulin levels to control blood sugar is counter productive.

    If we have to take something to reduce glucose absorption, I would prefer to take less of those food items that contribute to glucose in system. Even acarbose and voglibose does that. So what's so great about that?

  • is it your personal view or it has support of Health Unlocked administration."

  • Let's hear more about your diabetes history, reports like A1C, FBS, PPBS, Diet, LDF, KFT and medications first as your first post should have contained that in any case:

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

    No point trying to engage with me on these type of conversations. Many have tried these tricks in the past and sorry, it won't help anyone.

    BTW, so that you don't ask such questions again, please lookup what peer-to-peer support means. That will surely answer your question.

  • You need to go through policy of HU.

  • @anup

    If you have not taken the pain to read the following study in the link of the post given above....I am just copy pasting the part of the RESULTS section for you...source is already there in the post itself....u need to believe this...

    Acute effect of GS on the blood glucose level in experimental diabetic rats

    The effects of oral administration of three different doses of the GS extract on blood glucose levels of STZ-induced type 2 diabetic rats are presented in Figure 2. Very little change in blood glucose levels were observed in water treated diabetic rats. In sharp contrast, oral administration of GS extract lowered blood glucose in a dose- and time dependent manner. The blood glucose lowering effect of 200 mg/kg dose reached significance (p<0.01) at 3-h of GS treatment (18.9 ± 3.3% reduction). Interestingly, both 400 and 600 mg/kg doses significantly decreased the blood glucose levels at 2 h and 3 h. A maximum decrease of 31.5% (p<0.01) was observed with 400 mg/kg of GS extract at 3 h. Hence, the dosage was selected as 400 mg/kg/day for chronic study.

    Chronic effect of GS extract on blood glucose, serum insulin and β-cell function

    There was a little change in fasting blood glucose in case of untreated diabetic rats during the experimental periods (Table 1). The blood glucose of the GS-treated diabetic rats significantly decreased compared with untreated diabetic rats (7.24 ± 0.33 vs. 11.06 ± 1.22 mmol/l, p<0.001). Standard drug glibenclamide also lowered the blood glucose level (5.75 ± 0.53 mmol/l) significantly (p<0.001) compared with untreated diabetic rats. Very little alteration of serum insulin was observed in the untreated diabetic rats during the experimental periods (Table 1). When the diabetic rats were treated with GS extract for 28 days, significant increase in serum insulin was observed compared to untreated diabetic rats (72.19 ± 5.35 vs. 34.87 ± 2.48 pmol/l, p<0.001). Glibenclamide also increased the serum insulin level (83.74 ± 6.72 pmol/l) significantly. Significant improvement of β-cell function was also observed in GS-treated diabetic rats (63.4 ± 7.5% vs. 19.7 ± 3.9%, p<0.001). The increase in serum insulin and β-cell function by GS might be due to the modulation and/or regeneration in the pancreatic β-cells.

    Immunohistochemical and morphometric studies on the pancreas

    In diabetic rats, pancreatic islets showed mild to moderate destruction of β-cells (Figure 3A), the characteristic features of nonobese type 2 diabetes. The α-cells seemed to be exhausted 28with the compensatory work load to occupy the islet area and the intense staining could be seen 29 in α-cells within diabetic islets. In contrast, when diabetic rats were treated with GS extract, islets showed bright and sparkling staining of insulin positive β-cells (Figure 3B). The α-cells are reduced in ratio to β-cells in GS-treated group. The GS treatment showed few newly formed β-cells in the pancreas with no surrounding α-cells (Figure 3B). This is the direct evidence of β-cell regeneration and/or neoformation by GS extract. The generation of β-cells by GS may be due to direct regeneration and/or neoformation or indirectly by stimulating the NGN 3.1, Mafa, PDX-1/4 or other proliferating factor, that stimulate β-cell regeneration. The intense staining of nuclei reflecting nuclear activity of non-islet pancreas generate another hypothesis that newly formed β- cells mass without surrounding α-cells is generated by nonislet cells of pancreas. The morphometric data showed that the β-cells number in the islets of the GS-treated rats was significantly higher than that of the untreated diabetic rats (Figure 3C). This further suggests that GS may have a role in the regeneration or revitalization of the β-cells or in the recovery of the partially damaged β-cells. Our data suggest that GS extract treatment produced regeneration in STZ-induced diabetic pancreas rather than embryonic like stem cell differentiation to β-cells. If the β-cells growth is due to very small embryonic like stem cells then it should appear in STZ-induced diabetic control rats as well. Cluster of only β-cells were appeared in GS-treated pancreas, not in STZ-induced diabetic control pancreas, suggesting that β-cells regeneration in GStreated pancreas and this regeneration is not due to stem-cell induced growth. Additionally, if the stem cell induced growth occurred in GStreated pancreas, then regeneration should result in both β-cells and α-cells. However, in our study we found that cluster of β-cells without any α-cells in GS-treated pancreas (Figure 3B). These findings further confirmed the regeneration of β-cells in GS-treated pancreas and exclude the possibility of very small embryonic like stem cells induced growth of β-cells.

    omicsonline.org/open-access...

  • @anup

    gurmar and meshshringhi are same...which is Gymnema. Karela also helps a lot. According to me, as an Indian, if somebody says Karela has a ZERO effect....on blood sugar levels...than nothing so ignorant and unwise like that since everybody knows very well Karela effect and all diabetics uses it in daily life in addition to whatever diet or medicines they might be taking. You are taking fenugreek seeds in the morning though it tastes bitter....why?

  • I know about gurmar and meshshringhi being same. Yes you can call me ignorant, I ignore any personal attacks and don;t reply too much on rat studies unless they can be replicated on humans. Leptin injections worked great on rats but failed on humans.

    Don't bring discussion of other forum here. If you have to talk about that please take it up there. No, there's no science on taking bitter to neutralize sugar. Sorry that's just a belief handed down since 5000 years.

    Why I take fenugreek (only since last few days and not for six years) you can discuss there. It has nothing to do with sugar control. If it had to control sugar, it should have helped me in eating 10 chapatis a day when I was drinking 1 l of Fenugreek tea in 2011. Believe me it did NOTHING.

    I know, people defend everything in name of science but do not provide any evidence. Gurmar regenerates beta cells is opinion but where's the science? I read more and at least in last five years I know what I have done. I think I have experimented more than just dishing out google links. Only thing that I didn't experiment with was "Jarul"

    Pushing up insulin levels and calling it regeneration of beta cells is not science for me. If it really did regenerate, there would be no diabetic on face of earth.

  • @anup

    I have already provided copy paste of RESULTS of studies based on science only above this post confirming that gurmar regenerates beta cells but you won't either agree or believe because you don't want to. I cannot do anything in that.

    Apart from above studies, I myself confirm it's effect..it is not only my opinion but my BS levels and my BCF when last measured in August was 90% as per Homa 2 calculator with fasting insulin as 9.93 and fasting sugar as 100 mg/dl. Otherwise, as per my endocrinologist, diabetes happens when more than 50% of beta cells have died. My taking Diabecon DS since one and a half year improved my BCF as you can see above and when I discontinued for 10 days, both my FBS and PPBS shooted up where FBS was 119 and PPBS around 200 most of the time, which was never before. Immediately after re-continuing it, my FBS has gone to 92 and PPBS 104 after lunch

  • If removing for 10 days increases sugar levels and then on adding back it improves then conclusion is it simply elevates insulin level.

    Wrong to conclude that all the so called generated beta cells vanished as soon as diabecon was stopped. So proves there's no beta cell regeneration. It's just a marketing gimmick.

    I have said this many times in the past on other thread from you on the same issue.

    If absorption of carbs is the way it works, then why waste money on eating high carbs and diabecon both?

  • @anup

    If BCF has deteriorated totally, Gymnema won't be able to regenerate beta cells....as in your case. Diabetes cannot be cured which you know very well, so it is important to follow either a strict diet regimen like you do following LCHF or it can be done taking herbs and medicines as we all do other than LCHF followers. Now, when I stop Diabecon DS for few days, it will stop regenerating new beta cells and I am already diabetic, so ofcourse BS levels will rise in case of insufficient insulin produced by 50% of beta cells working...When I recontinue it, ofcourse it works again to generate new beta cells product enough insulin to bring down my BS levels to normal...so no further argument in that. If you do not wish to believe in either herbal medicines and it's efficacy, it is upto you...

    It works for me...that is the final word in this debate because my BCF still had some activity before I started the treatment to regenerate BCF by Diabecon DS in initial years of my diagnosis...and it won't work may be in your case as you said you already took 400 tabs of meshshringi from Himalaya but it didn't have any effect because either your BCF is totally deteriorated or otherwise you did not continue it's treatment long enough or sufficient in daily dose to have maximum effect. So for you, ONLY LCHF is an option. WE HAVE OTHER OPTIONS.

  • If BCF has deteriorated totally, Gymnema won't be able to regenerate beta cells....as in your case.

    And yet I am medication free for close to six years now with non diabetic numbers. So, you still claim that my BCF is deteriorated completely? I appreciate your eagerness to just oppose without providing any scientific evidence.

    Show me one guy/gal whose BCF is gone completely and can replicate this:

    healthunlocked.com/diabetes...

    If your BCF is better than me why not try this yourself and publish your trial results? Come on. Let's not be blinded by the eagerness just to say something for sake of opposing! Show me some scientific studies please -- on HUMANS.

    Six months of Meshshringhi is long enough compared to 8 weeks on few type 1 rats. If it could regenerate in Type 1 rats (BCF ZERO??) why not me as my BCF was certainly better than those rats. Isn't it?

    I don't pass any final word in any debate unless I have scientific studies to back my claims.

    :)

  • “If BCF has deteriorated totally, Gymnema won't be able to regenerate beta cells....as in your case.”

    “And yet I am medication free for close to six years now with non diabetic numbers.”

    Both cant be true. If one is medication free for close to six years, it means that BCF has not deteriorated and Gymnema has worked in controlling BSl.To say that inspite of 400 capsules had not helped at all appears to be wrong thinking and beyond logic.

  • BTW, first statement is not mine. That's someone else speculating and making that statement.

    Sorry, if it had worked I wouldn't have changed diet. Probably you need to go through my old posts instead of trying to build a case on single thread here and trying to argue here on anyone's behalf. I very much know what has helped me to stay medication free. Last that I took Gymnema was way back in third qrtr of 2011 and finally had to throw 120 capsules as was well settled into LCHF diet. My thinking and logic is crystal clear.

    And, I have 1000+ Indian diabetics that I know who have followed the path of diet change and have benefited even after 25 years of diabetes, where medications reduced by 80%. I have posted few success stories that I know of personally, all following what I do :)

    That said, where's your own diabetes history, diet, medications? Would love to hear more about it. Your profile doesn't even show gender and age.

  • You guys are nice with high scientific exchanges abiut beta cells and so on.Me i just want to manage all those herbs to stay well.i have the plant of my feet burning when i heat white rice,pastry other high catbohydrate food.how can i keep ftom becoming diabetic.In aftica we eat,cassava,toce,plantain.yhan you for help dearests.Issie ftom ivoty coast

  • Egitecs,

    Please check out the Diabetes Research and Wellness Foundation's website for the free leaflets on "A Healthy Diet and Diabetes" and "Exercise and Diabetes". Both leaflets can be downloaded, listened to and/or read at anytime. Please click on: drwf.org.uk/diabetes-leaflets

    Hope this helps.

  • However.....do we have any method to know if beta cells have regenerated???

    Even if it is helping Type 1....there may be argument that it is helping by reduction of IR...or by decreasing carbs absorption...

    But we can always check fasting insulin and conclude the issue.

  • You have to consider the mechanism of action of a drug or a herb in totality and not by only one action. I think Gymnema is helping regenerate beta cells as shown in the study in the second link in the end of your post itself and it also reduces glucose absorption as per the link I posted yesterday in my conversation with anup which was actually a post by you on herbs. Now, just tell me, reducing glucose absorption from food and increasing insulin secretion by regeneration beta cells will reduce blood glucose levels or not? And ofcourse, these reduced BS levels will reduce IR as well ultimately. Otherwise, by argument of anup and you, IR should have increased which can be seen by high residual circulating insulin in the blood....right?

  • Hey...type 1 do not have IR in first place...so if it is working in type 1...that means it is not working only by reducing IR. Type 1 have problem of autoimmunity where there beta cells do not produce insulin at all...so then how it worked in type 1 after all?. may be by decreasing carbs absorption...so what? Metformin also reduces absorption of carbs...so people who are advocating that they are not interested if it works by reducing absorption of carbs...because they would prefer to eat carbs less in such cases..then they should not take Metformin also.

  • Do you know that some Type 1 are put on MF as off label use?

    Smart endos start prescribing MF to Type 1 too whose basal insulin dose starts creeping up like hell. Pl read more and more.

    MF reduces absorption of carbs?

    Yes, we prefer to eat less carbs than take MF too :)

  • Pharmacodynamics

    Metformin lowers both basal and PPG. It works mainly by suppressing excessive hepatic glucose production, through a reduction in gluconeogenesis [30]. Other potential effects of metformin include an increase in glucose uptake, an increase in insulin signaling, a decrease in fatty acid and triglyceride synthesis, and an increase in fatty acid β-oxidation. Metformin may also increase glucose utilization in peripheral tissues, and possibly reduce food intake and intestinal glucose absorption.

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

  • Yes so this is in contradiction to your earlier statement that it reduces carbs absorption.

    Metformin also reduces absorption of carbs

  • Reduced insulin level will eventually lead to reduction in IR for sure...

  • I had mentioned about गुड़मार in many of my posts / replies but now all have vanished...It is been said by one Sidda practitioner that in initial stage of BS you can reverse it by simply using Gymnema leaves...

  • gphilip cure @anup

    I agree with Mr. Philip for sure because I read in one of this research studies that BS levels came down in rats who were having some BCF atleast working. So, it is working for me, I confirm and reconfirm it's effectiveness by my personal experience. See, if residual circulating insulin levels are increased by Gymnema as Anup says, one can argue that IR must have increased resulting into high insulin levels. If IR increases due to GYMNEMA effect, how can BS control be so effective as in my case it has happened and as per so many studies? I have started taking it after 1 year of my diabetes being diagnosed thinking it helps taking herbal medicines...but unaware of benefits of all of it's ingredients individually. I was taking Baba Ramdev medicines madhunashini vati before for few months but somehow felt changing to Himalaya Herbals product is better.

    Anup, you have to give enough time for herbal medicines to cure or have effect since it clears out the root cause of the disease. Plus you BCF might be deteriorated more, so it was not effective in your case. However, I read in that research study that even whose BCF had deteriorated, if they take this herb, it increased longevity.

    Difference in Voglibose and Diabecon DS is basically it's side effects as it is always with allopathic medicines. Voglibose is a horrible drug inducing vomiting immediately after we eat. I have experienced it personally. While Diabecon doesn't have any side effects as it is always with most herbal medicines taken in right dose.

  • Keep eating diabecon.

    Maybe after 2 or 3 years you will realize what I said is true.

    Longevity is now your defense for gurmar? How exactly?

    As for ayurveda and side effects:

    ndtv.com/kerala-news/doctor...

  • NDTV is a Maha fraud channel...I don't wish to even click the link.:-)

  • Same news you will find on all other channels too. Reading some facts doesn't harm.

  • Missing those days when people at HU were not involved in contradicting their own opinions.

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