Who thought negative splits could be so interesting? My own spin on the Stamina podcast...

[TurboTortoise]

Tonight I experimented with what they call negative splits. I had some fun thinking up my own take on the Stamina podcast (without the running to the beat aspect). My idea was to go to back to the park where I did my C25K weeks last year, and do five laps at a gradually increasing speed, starting at an easy pace, peaking for lap 4, then running at a warm-down pace for the final lap.

I've never been able to work out for sure how far a lap is in that park. Because there's a lot of tree cover, Endomondo invariably loses its signal and I get different distances each time. Same problem with measuring on Google maps - you have to guess where the path is. But I think it's between 1.1 and 1.2km per lap – doesn't really matter anyway.

I would have to judge my own pace as all I have is a cheap digital watch. I can time my laps, but the watch doesn't have a memory to store them. And it seems I don't have much of one either... But here's a breakdown of what I did:

Lap 1: 7'20" – very easy, comfortable warm-up pace. Breathed through my nose, mouth shut - it kept the midges out.

Lap 2: 6'30"-ish. Tried to speed up only a little but somehow this ended up much faster than I'd intended.

Lap 3: Forgot the time for this one! It was possibly 6'15"? Felt much faster than the second lap, although it wasn't.

Lap 4: 5'35". This was not an easy pace at all! I was aiming for 6 mins but when I saw I was on course for 5'30"-ish, thought I'd just go for it. I doubt I could have kept this up for two laps. In danger of swallowing midges.

Lap 5: 6'20". Warm-down. I'd intended to go slowly again (7 mins) but settled back at this same pace.

So the conclusion is this was all quite fun, although it's quite hard to judge pace. Also I seem to have three speeds and unless I make a big effort in either direction I seem to settle at around 6'20" for a lap.

Could I do all this better with a Garmin? Is it time I got one? Any excuse not to? Is this in fact the subtext of my post, where I'm hoping that all you lovely people will tell me I NEED to get one?

[misswobble Graduate]

Have a look on the goodrunguide as their maps go off-road. it's free to measure your route, or just look at it, zoom in etc, and you don 't have to register. I found it when googling for a tool to measure my offroad runs

I think you will need a Garmin if you want to get into the pace thing. I got to grips with the Virtual Pacer on my watch a few days ago and straight off got to PB's on the trot. Used it tnight for my run as well and it's handy as it tells you if you are behind, on or ahead of the pace you've set yourself. Good ey. I got a pink Forerunner 10 as they're the cheapest I think

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to misswobble]

I do like the idea of a virtual pacer very much. I was looking at the Forerunner 10 and it possibly has all the bells and whistles I'd need - I'm not really interested in heart rates, they would probably scare me. Can you download all the stats to a PC/Mac?

I'd tried goodrunguide - it's similar to the beta mapping tool in the old Google maps (which you can still get), but still tricky when you can't see the path for the tree cover. They need to upload a new satellite pic of that park in winter...

[Bazza1234 Graduate]

Well -- firstly I think that you should take the word "Tortoise" out of your Tag name if you are going to continue to run at paces like that !!

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to Bazza1234]

I like the yin and yang balance of Turbo and Tortoise though - quite a neat little conceit, don't you think?

[tanyag_163 Graduate]

Interesting. I've been thinking about incorporating negative splits but wasn't sure how useful they might be. How did you feel after the run? What sort of thing are you hoping to achieve by doing them?

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to tanyag_163]

I felt really good after the run, not at all tired, just did my usual stretches and got on with my evening. The slow warm-up lap set me up very well for the rest of the run, I'd recommend trying that.

I believe negative splits are meant to increase stamina and give you the ability to push a bit harder at the end of a run. Also the variety of paces are good things to practise, and more interesting than just doing the same run, day in day out.

[runningnearbeirut Graduate]

Does Google Earth do any better than Google Maps at telling you where your path is? Round here the road to my house isn't on Google Maps but is very obvious on Google Earth.

I don't have a Garmin, so don't know the answer to your "real" question, but I think you need to know whether or not a Garmin would lose the GPS signal in the same way as your smartphone does - if you get the same problem then it's not going to know how fast you're going so won't be able to help with setting your pace.

You might not have managed to do exactly what you set out to do, but I think you did a pretty good job there of increasing your pace through your run, so well done! Interesting though isn't it, how there's a "natural" pace that you go at unless you really make an effort to do otherwise.

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to runningnearbeirut]

Thanks RNB! I'm not too bothered about measuring that particular park, as you say the run was really to see if I could successfully calibrate my pace, and the time it took to complete the laps relative to each other. I think a Garmin would be really useful for this, but it's also interesting to try and work this out for yourself without any external help (apart from a stopwatch).

[Sore-knees Graduate]

I was given a garmin forerunner 10 for Christmas and found I couldn't get on with it - for some reason the GPS doesn't work nearly as well as my smartphone so I use Runkeeper (when the GPS was working it proved that Runkeeper was accurate) I live Runkeeeper! Has anyone else found this with their beloved Garmins?

[notbad Graduate in reply to Sore-knees]

Mine has started acting up this last week, not locking on until half way through a run. They're brilliant...... when they work.

[IannodaTruffe Mentor]

That is a great exercise for teaching yourself what different paces feel like. Pacing really is the most difficult thing, I find. If Endomondo does not work because of the tree cover, then I wouldn't be confident that a Garmin would work either. Runkeeper does have a virtual pace facility, but you can't alter it for different splits and I find that its current pace feature is laughably inaccurate. So a Garmin with current pace (I am not sure that all models have that) would be a good bet. Maybe you could borrow one to try out in that park.......or.......change your running venue.

Keep running, keep smiling.

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to IannodaTruffe]

Thanks IdT! I usually run in Richmond Park these days, with its great big open skies (and lots of planes on the way to LHR) - there's no problem hooking onto a satellite there.

This is the first time I've tried negative splits like this and it was really interesting, and fun. It was also very thought-provoking returning to the park where I did C25K. Last July, for my week 9 runs, it took me 30 minutes to complete four laps - so 7'30" average laps, and this was all-out, beetroot-faced running. It's amazing how over 10 months this has become my 'easy' pace.

[notbad Graduate]

The Garmin Forerunner 10 has a current pace, which I find useful, but like IT I wonder if the satellite would work with the tree cover. Good work TT, I try to get negative splits but often fail.

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to notbad]

Thanks NB - I tried to go really slowly at first, and that seemed to work to at least get a couple of successful negative splits.

[carole01 Graduate]

Hi - Ive stop using mine now I know my furthest run is 25k. I don't bother with it. It never kicked in for the first 3k of my runs because of the trees which used to make me do an extra 3k to make up for it!! (madness) Popped on mapmyrun last night and was chuffed at my 10k was 1hr 8! didn't feel hard at all. Boy you fast!! Keep at it, you have talent!! x

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to carole01]

Thank you Carole - it's all relative though and the furthest I've ever run is just over 10km. Planning on pushing the envelope and doing 12k soon - whoo! So I am in complete awe of your 25k. The interesting thing (as I replied to IdT above) is how my week 9 pace when I completed C25K last July has now become my 'easy' pace over 10 months gradual chipping away at it - that's really pleasing!

[carole01 Graduate in reply to TurboTortoise]

Trust me ....it is a very slow 25k LOL

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to carole01]

I wouldn't exactly call a 1hr 8min 10k slow though - and especially as you were taking a steady pace. Nice one...

[dottiemay Graduate]

Now, just to put the other side, my Garmin 110 has never lost signal, even walking the coast path in Guernsey last year where there was very deep tree cover for a lot of the time. I've even covered it accidentally with my jacket sleeve and it's worked.

Actually, the only time it didn't register was running through the tunnel at the Olympic Stadium at the end of the Anniversary Run but it carried on again as soon as I emerged.

Having said all that - brilliant splits!! I'm rubbish at pacing and that's something the 110 doesn't do - unless it's a feature I haven't found!

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to dottiemay]

Thanks dot, I was also looking at the 110 and it doesn't mention it does virtual pacing on the blurb - what to do! I quite like the idea of that function.

This was the first time I'd tried doing splits and I think the key was to go really slowly for the first one - the only way is up after that.

[misswobble Graduate]

The 110 does have a virtual pacer!!! It downloads to a pc and it can be used with Strava (I think it's called, and the Goodrunguide. The goodrunguide does show footpaths through tree cover. I suspect these are recognised footpaths, but all the ones on my trails show up as a definite line on goodrunguide. I use my Garmin on all my trails and it's not disappeared yet. I switch it on before my run starts so it has a signal before I start to run. I stand still til it finds me

[TurboTortoise Graduate in reply to misswobble]

Ooh, quite fancy the 110 then, perhaps...

That little park I run in ain't giving up its secrets anytime soon - no recognised official footpaths, full tree cover, intermittent signal. I surrender!

[misswobble Graduate]

I ran in the dark last night through a wooded area and then back through it and my Forerunner 10 held its signal throughout I have the Garmin Forerunner 10 by the way