Queen of Slow plans for more slow... - Bridge to 10K

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Queen of Slow plans for more slow...

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10
28 Replies

Just yesterday I posted on our Strength and Flex forum a post about planning a new plan ( healthunlocked.com/strength... ), and as I am currently here having fun putting my plan together and reading into posts both on the web and from our rich forum archives, I thought I'd put down some thoughts.

I am specifically looking into aspects of expanding mileage for slow runners. I’ll post the plan here soon, just in case it might help those of us who really enjoy the delicious relaxing easy Niko Niko paced runs. But the researching into plans is actually not as straightforward as I thought as there are not many training plans out there that use paces and speeds at anywhere near my level, so it is really hard to feel a plan is meant for me.

But I came across this article, which really intrigued me, as it is one of those rare articles focussing just on the issues that I am facing. The issues can be summarised in my 5/10k times. My 5ks take me just below an hour, a 10k takes me 2 hours. So when NRC has a guided run for 60 minutes, I gladly take it, but it will be "just" a 5k run and it doesn’t ‘feel’ like a long run.

For long runs, I do not want to change my Niko Niko pace, as I enjoy these runs, and I know my body is not fit enough or strong enough to go faster. But I do want to see if I can up the mileage, to improve my knee strength and overall fitness. Ok, maybe get a tad faster, but speed is really the least important issue for me at the moment.

So from the article ( marathontrainingacademy.com... ) it suggests there are following challenges put forward by slower runners:

1. Desire to go faster

Ok, so most of their respondents put this as their top priority. Not mine, but it is interesting that they suggest that cadence is the biggest issue and that by using a metronome app, one can train oneself to up one's cadence.

Great, it will go into my bucket list of tools for my plan. And they actually helpfully said "If your initial cadence is 140-150 it will take some time to get to 180 so aim to increase your cadence by 10 steps per minute at first". That makes me feel happier, as my cadence is somewhere between 145 and 150. It is good to know that there are 145 cadence-runners out there. 👋👋🐢

2. Carrying extra weight

I'll be honest and say I am annoyed that this is so high up. I know I know I know, but in my case that knowledge doesn't translate into being suddenly able to lose weight when you have a condition which makes your metabolism work against you. Having started to run 18 months ago, I am actually losing weight for the first time since 15 years. Very slowly, but it is going in the right direction. So next point please. (My health journey discussing this issue is here on a different forum healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... )

3. Training takes more time

Yes, this is the biggest issue, and the reason why I cannot run more 10ks in the week is that they take so blimmendly long. So they are reserved for gorgeous slow weekend cruising runs.

But the article makes also the point that the longer you are on your feet during your run, the more risk for overuse of injuries. So cross training becomes really important. So that must be included in my plan. I already do daily Yoga, but have thought to add rowing more regularly (if only Zwift would add virtual rowing functionality!!!)

And in talking to hubby, I realise I need to also extend my range of my step. Niko Niko running means a limited range, and thus the need to train your knees to become stronger in their full range! I guess that means squats, lunges and steps.

So all of this goes into my bucket list: rowing, squats, lunging and steps. (But then I had the argument of wanting to buy a nice step, and hubby telling me off as our usual stairs would do..... but but but.... 😤

4. Fuelling needs may be different

Yup, in the summer I had to learn the hard way to need to take hydration with me for my 5k runs. So something that should have been a quick run isn't in hydration terms. And 5ks don't feel like a long run to me, but in the hot season, I definitely need hydration during that hour of running.

Although the article goes into the use of different gels, mentioning UCAN as a longer acting fuel, my situation is that I believe I have switched to running on fat rather than carbs.

I now do not eat breakfast in the morning before a run, and only drink a glass of iced lemon water. And on my run and afterwards, I do not get hungry anymore.

There was a phase where I had my protein smoothie (probably with some carbs) before I ran in the morning, and I experienced several runs where I seemed to run out of steam. The whole discussion of this is here ( healthunlocked.com/bridgeto... ) but in short: you can train your body to run on fat, and for the more bigger bodied runner I would think that that is good news, as you will seldom run out of fat.

5. Pacing Strategies

The article advocates for Jeff Galloway's method of run/walk/run -ing. My preference is actually to run slow but continuously, so once I had graduated from C25k and running 30 minutes continuously, for me there was no going back.

And I was glad that Ju-Ju's Magic Plan to 10k allowed that as well, as many 5 to 10k plans include jeffing to get to 10k.

So I will put this reluctantly on my bucket list for my plans. I might try it here and there, but it will not feature much.

6. Elitist Attitudes

The article suggests "Unfortunately, there are always some people who promote the idea that you’re only a real runner if you’re fast.". I have not encountered that, rather the opposite with so many supportive voices that allow me to feel safe in my wilful ignorance of speed.

However, what I do notice is that many of the printed pace tables for calculating your easy or speed or long runs do not even go down to my kind of slow. (💁‍♀️Tut tut, they are missing out). But there are online pace calculators out there which simply do not care about numbers, and they allow you to indulge in your slowness.

7. Time comparisons

Avoiding the "compare and despair" mentality seems difficult. I have been there, but have managed to leave it behind, almost. I still have some related anxieties, as outlined in my Parkrun post ( healthunlocked.com/bridgeto... ). My anxieties are not about what others think of my pace, but what the experience of running in public at the back of the pack would do to my enjoyment of running slow. Anything jeopardising that and I am out.

The article suggests that it might help to run tech free. I have to admit for me, that is a no no! I love my Iphone tech, from music to zombies to Runkeeper to NRC. It tracks my virtual and real runs, gives me those lovely badges. It has my metronome app, and my photo app, and all of this contributes to the joy of running. It is a digital/physical mashup of a running experience.

8. Discouragement of getting slower as you go older

The article covers those aged runners who still hunt for their target PBs. But I guess for me, I have the big advantage of having started late in life and at a very unfit level.

I am amazed still at the slow improvements month on month, but the good thing about starting out so low is that now matter what, health conditions, menopause, age, work-stress…. it can only get better. And it does.

9. Lack of a running partner

Yes, many running clubs are geared towards the faster runner, or possibly the normal runner. There is no way I would join a club, knowing the difference between my speed and the average speed.

But as many of you know, I have found my own way of having a running partner, with lovely husband accompanying me on run-walks. He walks I run and our speeds match perfectly. Well, actually I am a bit slow for him, but then we only run-walk together on those explorations of long new routes, and that slows me down. Really! Yes, really!... There are also those hills that he doesn’t want to class as such, they’re ‘undulations’…..😤😡

10. Stress over cut off time in races

"Not being able to finish during the cut off time is a real fear for slower runners."

Yes, I can see this would be a worry, but as during lockdown the choices of virtual races have increased so substantially, it actually has helped slower runners like me to participate in official virtual races. Somehow virtual races are more accessible for the slow runners of this world, with no worry to keep the support teams waiting, or being at the back of the pack.

I have to admit I embraced the virtual world of running with open arms (and slow running legs), having never experienced public races. From virtual End-to-End Challenges, World Records, Virtual experiences of running routes somewhere in the world, Ultra-Distance Relays, Virtual Races, and of course Zombies, Run! Virtual experiences, I simply love it. I just wish something like that would emerge for rowing. Come on, Zwift, add running to your offer. (I probably have said this before…)

11. Fear of being last

Yup. "The potential of being last can be a scary thing". Completely agree, especially when articles like these use examples of 63 year old runners with a pace of 14.40, where is my pace is somewhere around 19.

But it also suggests that "The person who finishes last often has to overcome many more obstacles than those who finish near the front." Not sure that is such a posit thing, but there we are.

12. Sparse aid stations & 13. Finish line getting shut down early

The last two points relate only to physical races, and I can commiserate. But as a lockdown runner, I have not yet experienced these issues, and for now I am pretty happy staying in my solitary runner and virtual running world.

But aid stations running out of supplies and finishing line shutting down early must be such a let down.

For me the choice of not running public races resolved this issue. My running is more important than being able to run in public. And I feel I have my priorities right.

But the article ends on the nice note that all races should cater for all sorts of runners, even the queens and kings of slow.

So on my Bucket list planning my new plan, likely to be titled: 10k Revisit, Expand & Strengthen Plan for Slow Runners are:

- Metronome runs

- Long runs

- Interval runs

- Even slower runs (yup)

- Only a few jeffing runs

- Hill runs

- Step exercises

- Knee focussed workouts

- Squats

- (lunges will be included in Yoga)

- Rowing (Come on Zwift, please add Virtual Rowing!)

- Nutrition: jelly for my joints and protein drinks for late morning breakfast. Iced lemon water in the morning. The usual mix of selenium, iron, etc for my thyroid.

- And continuing with Yoga, virtual running challenges and after run stretches.

What else might I need? Let me know.

Happy slow running everyone.

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CBDB profile image
CBDB
Graduate10
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28 Replies
Rennur profile image
RennurGraduate10

I find Jelly Babies give me a boost after 6K. Even if it is just a psychological boost they are lovely. And I am not really a "sweetie" sort of bloke (now chocolate - that is something else! )I am a slow runner -getting under 45 minutes for 5K is great for me. 10K - under 95 minutes is good. I am one of those for whom a 10K race might be do-able if I can speed up a fraction, if there is a 90 minute cut-off. I am working on it.

Look out for Funruns/walks. They do not have a cut-off. There is a 10K one in Stansted next Sunday so I am going for my first "public" 10K there.

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toRennur

Fun runs! Got it. Will have a look! Yeah, I do have some emergency Gummi bears in my belt, but so far never needed or wanted them,

Rennur profile image
RennurGraduate10 in reply toCBDB

I don't think it is a question of having them in an emergency. They make my mouth feel better too!

nowster profile image
nowsterGraduate10

I got given some unwanted cheap fudge. You know, the sort that's sold as "Gift from TouristPlace" but made in a big factory somewhere else, and is squishy instead of hard. That's actually very good for fuelling during a long run. It's almost pure sugar and some fats.

Parkruns do not have a cut-off. It isn't over until the volunteer who walks at the back comes in. In fact the person who comes in later might get more of a cheer than those who finish in the middle.

As to speed, it's all a matter of perspective. There are some here who consider me fast. I regularly get lapped at parkrun and this morning a younger guy zoomed past me whilst I was doing my short run.

But the most important thing is you feeling comfortable in what you're doing.

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply tonowster

The fudge sounds good. I have done emergency Gummi bears in my running belt but I never need or want them. So fudge had the additional risk of melting I guess… I can just imagine…. 🤣

Yeah, if I go run in a public run, park-run will be the first call.

Rennur profile image
RennurGraduate10 in reply toCBDB

Ooh Fudge. Now you're talking. I might need to take an old lady tartan shopping trolley full though.

grumpyoldgirl profile image
grumpyoldgirl

Fascinating post, CBDB. There are so many things you have to consider! About the step, I bought one to help my recovery after breaking my ankle and it is better than the bottom stair because I can use it for different things, and I can vary its height. It's great for leg swings! It wasn't a really expensive one either.

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply togrumpyoldgirl

Ohh, thank you! Just read this out loud to hubby! 🤣👏👏 I think it’ll have to go on top of my xmas list, and then there’s no excuse!

Over62 profile image
Over62

Great post CBDB lots of points to think about, some things I have experienced, others I’m just not interested in doing, such as running with a club or others I agree one of the benefits of the lockdown have been virtual runs I loved doing LEJOG04 and I’m currently doing the WCP - nearly out of Pembrokeshire! I think the biggest thing is simply to enjoy what you’re doing, have a regular pattern and not over complicate it and eventually you’ll get to achieve what you want to do. Happy running at your lovely speed👏🏃🏻‍♀️👍

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toOver62

Thank you! Yes, completely agree. In some way our digital age was the perfect time for me to start running. I so enjoy the virtual/physical challenges! Thank you!

Irish-John profile image
Irish-JohnGraduate10

As for being last...That's the most popular Runner, 'cos everyone gets to go home when they criss the Finish Line ;)

Great post and summation, thank you for sharing :) 👍🏻

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toIrish-John

😃👍🏽 yes! Thank you. 🙏🏃🏼‍♀️

Raisemeup profile image
Raisemeup60minGraduate

Hi Cbdb, this is among the most interesting and informative posts I've seen, thank you so much for going to the trouble of putting together so much information for us.I have scanned it, but will read it properly later on as I feel there is much to benefit from here especially as a slow, older runner which you mention.

Best wishes and many thanks Cbdb ☺️

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toRaisemeup

Awwhh 🥰🥰🥰🙏 go us slow runners!

GailXrunning profile image
GailXrunning

Such an insightful post, CBDB! Thank you for sharing your research and personal reflections. 🙏 Fascinating read; I’ve learnt a great deal.

I have only recently encountered pace charts, and I immediately noticed the cut-off on the tables. And that cut-off point essentially excludes so many. OK, there are ways around this problem… but it’s the grounding assumption that bothers me. The same goes for much of the advice available online. There is certainly a lot of scope for enhancements to inclusivity.

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toGailXrunning

Yesss, exactly! But I think the wave of lockdown runners might initiate change in this area, as they are no emerging to race in physical races and will notice if they are not catered for. I have a feeling we will see changes in this regard.

Doris8 profile image
Doris8Graduate10

What an amazing great post and lots of information so interesting , . You are so active and I love your slow jogs especially for us of a certain age. I’m a bit like you like the virtual when I did jogging but now on walking and can’t get Mr D to get out of bed for a walk at 6am. So virtual it is. As long as you enjoy what you’re doing .👏

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toDoris8

👏 absolutely 👏👏

Curlygurly2 profile image
Curlygurly2Graduate10

Have I read this right - you're putting together a plan for other slow runners? Or is this your own personal plan?

How about mentioning other ways to increase cadence, if that's what one wants to do? Metronomes are, um, a tad boring....I use podrunner, eclectic mixes at specific cadences... some might find them a bit eclectic, I.E. not to everyone's taste, but there must be other ways round this...

Slow running techniques? I believe the Niko Niko style is not necessarily natural to some runners.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood...

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toCurlygurly2

Yey! Brilliant! I like podrunner, so that’ll go into my list. Eclectic mixes? Do you use Spotify for that or something else? How do you make sure they have a beat matching specific cadences,

Slow running techniques. Is there a different one to Niko Niko (Tanakas)? Or do you mean Just running slower?

Thank you so much! I will develop a plan, and I tend to use me and my preferences to be my first guide, but try to be just generic enough that others might enjoy it.

But I am more than happy to take ideas, and you have given me some really brilliant ones! Thank you!!!

Curlygurly2 profile image
Curlygurly2Graduate10 in reply toCBDB

I rarely use Spotify as I don't have a contract on my phone, just a very small amount of free data per month, I meant Podrunner is eclectic!!There is of course, Audiofuel, the folks who did the music for Laura and C25K, they do fixed cadence stuff. Metronome running would drive anyone round the bend!

I meant you might like to explain the Niko technique, I'm not sure I understand it fully...

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toCurlygurly2

Got it. I just know the basics (use smaller steps, use low drop shoes of you can (I don’t always, actually ), but I can link some articles.

Audiofuel, I seemed to remember everything is behind a paywall but will have a look. Thanks for the pointers.

Curlygurly2 profile image
Curlygurly2Graduate10 in reply toCBDB

The C25K+ podcasts are free on the NHS site, and I found some of the others on Amazon, you have to look carefully, but I got the "DJ mix" of some of them for 99p!! Not bad for an hour of music.

I did watch a video of Niko, the big thing seemed to be the high cadence, like you I can't get over 148 without wearing myself out...

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toCurlygurly2

Mmmmhh 🤔 Interesting. Yeah, I have done the C25k+ and I can just about do the ones up to 175 but it is quite an effort of ‘trippling‘. I did think of revisiting these for this plan, so I’ll have a think how they fit in.

BS44 profile image
BS44

Really good informative post and I can identify with most of it. I had to google cadence - how do you know what yours is?? 😊

I feel like I have found my pace for my 30 minute runs. I run between 3.5 & 4mph (very old treadmill) and have just increased to 35 minutes. I’ve tried faster but tire too easily. 🥵

I don’t know whether I’ll ever run a 5K but that something I’ll maybe worry about later on 🤔

CBDB profile image
CBDBGraduate10 in reply toBS44

You could use a metronome app trialing different cadences or bpm.

I just found my cadence by running to music with a certain beat (and the beats per minutes becomes your cadence, if you run to the beat of the music).

And looking for music with a certain beat, there are several options.

- the C25k+ podcasts (stepping stones, speed, stamina) which work with music that has a specific beat

- podrunner podcasts (again, with specific beats per minute (bpm))

- searching for specific bpm in Spotify

- on this thread, audiofuel podcasts were mentioned as well

Maybe there are some other methods. I might have to look into that.

BS44 profile image
BS44 in reply toCBDB

I did try the c25+ podcast but it was too fast for me -I’ll have a look at the others. It will be useful to know for when I eventually run outside. Thank you x

skysue16 profile image
skysue16Graduate10

All very interesting CBDB, thank you for doing all that research and your informative post 😊 Useful replies from others too 👍. I watched a video explaining the Slow Japanese style of running and found it very useful. I try to run in a similar way- upright, short stride etc. If I want to increase my pace I move my legs faster (if I can 😂!). I will be interested to read future posts about slow running.

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