Training Decisions and Knee Niggles

[CBDB]

Just finished a 5k run using intervals, and my app tells me it resulted in a personal best km, mile and best 5k. Still deliciously ultra-slow, mind you. 🐢

But I had two sharp knee niggling pains while trying to sprint. I believe it is when trying to extend my leg beyond my usual Japanese jog, which is generally completely pain free. 🤕

So I have to make a decision on my planning towards 10k, one where I can achieve my goal but avoids my knee niggles acting up again. 📓

The context: So I am at the moment increasing my runs towards 10k, and using two motivational plans:

- on the one hand doing it with help of the magic plan, with two weekday 5k-ish runs and one long run at weekends. I’ve reached 8k so far but seem to be stuck at this level since before Christmas. 🙁

- I also have signed up with Runderwear Festival of Running 10k race at Easter 😱 (1st ever race for me, joining dijep and David_G ) and it has a training plan with one interval run per week.

So I mashed up both plans, generally adding one interval run to the magic plan. Result was that my knee niggles started after both interval runs, with even some sharp pains in the last couple of sprints. 😖

Obviously the interval running has improved my speed, having scored personal bests in 1m, 1k and 5k but the likelihood of injuries has also increased. Hmm.. 🤔

Plan: So I am thinking of doing the following 🧾

- forget about the Runderwear training plan including forgetting about intervals. As for now, the sprints make me to run in a way where my knees are (not yet quite) up for it. ❌

- Continue on the magic plan, running in the Slow Japanese Jogging way, dropping now back to 6k (from 8k) and building back up on a weekly basis to 10k. 🏃🏽‍♀️

- If I make it to 10k by Easter, great but I’m not going to push it.🐣

- Continue doing Yoga, specific running exercises and/or knee Pilates 🧘🏻‍♀️

My thinking is that even though I have run now since April 2020, for my tendons, muscles, ligaments and bones around my knees, this is still early days. They take considerable pounding, and as a slow runner my runs are very long. They usually feel ok, but I think I need to give them time to catch up in order to allow them to strengthen their integral structures. And I can help that along with specific exercises, good spans of recovery, Niko Niko running and just a lot of patience. (And Jello 😃)

At some point in the future, maybe in a year, I might return to intervals. But for now I’d rather run ultra slow and injury free.

Happy Running Everyone 🏃🏽‍♀️

[David_G]

Hi CBDB, I think you’re very sensible to forget about the intervals for now, and just concentrate on the Magic Plan and building up to 10K that way. I’m sure the yoga and Pilates will help too.

Good luck! 🙂👍👏👏

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to David_G]

🙏👍🏽💪🏃🏽‍♀️

[Over62]

Hi CBDB I think you’re right stick to one plan, you could always just increase gently by a 1/4 or 1/2 k each week and see how it goes then. My knee tendons have definitely improved over the past 18months and along carefully with the yoga and other exercises your running should get you how and where you want to be - hopefully pain free! 🏃🏻‍♀️🧘‍♀️😊👍

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Over62]

👍🏽🙏🏃🏽‍♀️💪

[Cowladyrunning Graduate10]

I had knee niggles when I first started c25k. It was because I was a bit hit and miss about doing it. I found when I began to stick to it regularly and gently add distance it was fine. I've got to 10k without issues as long as I don't do too much too soon! Trying to get to half marathon next but who knows how long I'll take!!

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Cowladyrunning]

Not doing too much too soon sounds like great advice. 🙏👍🏽

[dijep Graduate10]

That sounds like a very sensible decision to me. I'm not enjoying the interval runs on the RW training plan really, I was going to give them another week or so and then see how I feel. You don't need them to get to 10k anyway. I think the plans and stuff I've read on their posts are all about increasing your speed, but personally I don't care about time at the moment, and I'm guessing it's the same for you.

Look after your knees 😉😊

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to dijep]

Will do! Thanks. They did speed me up but yeah, I think my knees are not ready yet for that. 🙏👍🏽🏃🏽‍♀️

[Grannyhugs Graduate10]

You sound like you've made a good decision to drop the intervals for just now. How about cutting back on one of your 5k runs rather than dropping back from 8k to 6k. Then one run a week can be a shorter time, if you are as slow as you say you are then 2x5k plus 8k may be too many combined minutes a week. Happy running 🤗

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Grannyhugs]

Yeah, I’ll have a think. I just have this gorgeous 5k-ish route, with a 4.6 and a 5.1 variation, and they run so well. But it might be an idea. Thank you!

[Grannyhugs Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

🤣 we are all like that with favourite routes. Take care

[Slothgoesrunning Graduate10]

Thanks CBDB - very helpful as always

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Slothgoesrunning]

Hope your hip gets better! We (relative) newbies might just have to find more patience for our new runner legs!

[Slothgoesrunning Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

Absolutely- patience and focus on the happy runs

[GailXrunning]

Best wishes for your knee niggles. Sounds like you have a good revised plan. And being able to make such on-the-hoof revisions is so important, so well done. The plan has to work for you, not the other way around.

One further thought might be to alter the intervals to jeffing (run-walk) rather than niko niko + sprints. It gives some of the benefits of intervals but with the injury-prevention built in. I found I was building my distance quite steadily this way, without really trying. And my niko niko run segments became faster than my normal niko niko. Just an idea.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to GailXrunning]

That’s a great thought. I might try that and see how it goes. 🙏👍🏽

[Beatlesforever Graduate10]

Sounds like absolutely the right decision. I'm a huge fan of Niko Niko pace 😃🏃‍♀️🐌🐢 and like you say, there's no rush, you'll get to 10k when you get to 10k. All that hard work with yoga and Pilates will pay off and your knees will thank you for it 👏👏👏

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Beatlesforever]

Yes. And has paid off already. I can actually kneel now on the ground which I wasn’t able to do for a decade! So my knees are getting better, but I’m also using them much more.

Thank you 🙏 😊😀

[Hidden]

Oh, it's so hard CBDB. I came a cropper with interval running too (it included sprints) in November and it put me out for a month. It aggrevated an old injury, so it will be a while and take a lot of thinking about before I head that way again.

I'd suggest you do your slow running and keep to The Magic Plan. It's a tried and tested method and has served you well so far. If you've already reached 8k, can you not just progress from there? It seems a shame to go back, but you know best what your knees can manage. 🤗

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Hidden]

🙏

[Elfe5 60minGraduate]

Planning for injury free has double thumbs up! 👍🏻👍🏻😄

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Elfe5]

👍🏽🙏😀

[Rennur Graduate10]

That gives me confidence to ease up on my "sprint" intervals. I might just do my short run with just three rather than six intervals and see how I fare. Too much too soon I think. Get to 10k before thinking about pace - I think that' s a plan.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Rennur]

Yeah! 👍🏽 10k here we come!

[Rennur Graduate10 in reply to CBDB]

60 minutes first for me

[LottieMW Ambassador]

Obviously a novice here, but here’s my thoughts...

If you have a fave 4.6km route, use it for the 4km runs...and just tag on more walking at the beginning and end. No need then to drop back from 8km.

...also, there are intervals...and there are intervals. You don’t have to be fast-fast, just slightly faster than usual. So slow jog/jog...not jog/sprint.

...but at the end of the day, it’s about what suits you...and what you feel comfortable doing. Most importantly...it’s about protecting your knees!

...and enjoy!

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to LottieMW]

Thank you, yes. I fear the difference between my normal jog and sprint is not as large as the name indicates 🤣.

My biggest concern is that when I hear “Sprint“ in my efforts to go a bit faster tend to result in lengthening my stride, specifically also because I listen to music. So the beat stays the same, with it my running rhythm and in the effort to go faster I’d lengthen my stride, putting more pressure on my knee.

However I don’t like running without music, so having pondered it a bit more, I think I’ll stay with not doing intervals.

But so many thanks for all the considerations which are immensely useful to my decision making.

🙏👍🏽🏃🏽‍♀️

[LottieMW Ambassador in reply to CBDB]

I tend not to listen to music on the short runs, to be honest. I’ve also never tried any “training” podcasts or apps, including the C25k+ ones. What I have done is use W1 from C25k...but jog/run, not walk/jog. No one mentions “sprinting”...and the emphasis is obviously on NOT going too fast 😂

...also I know what you mean about the lack of difference in pace...between any activity 😂😂😂

[SueAppleRun Graduate10 60minGraduate]

I think you’ve worked it out well, you have to protect yourself against injury, we are both slow runners and although the longer distances take forever managed to build up to 10k without injury Good luck keep running and enjoy

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to SueAppleRun]

🙏😊

[nowster Graduate10]

Just continue to do what you are comfortable with. 👍

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to nowster]

👍🏽🏃🏽‍♀️

[Maddee_6333 Graduate10]

Sounds like a good plan.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Maddee_6333]

👍🏽🙏

[Dups Graduate10]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I have struggled with injury trying to hard and trying to improve my speed. The speed came at a cost and as a result I have been having deep tissue massage for weeks. I think we all have competitiveness in us in striving to improve ourselves, so I think caution and patience is the way to go.

At 5e moment I’m converted back to slow running. Like you I got to 8k on JuJu plan so I have really just started back this week on 3x5k this week super slow, and enjoyed it so much better. Slow and pain free. Going to start JuJu plan soon from the beginning. We will get to 10k eventually 👍🏻😊

Good luck🤗

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Dups]

Definitely! And slow jogging gives us such delightful runs. Although my last run resulted in 3 PBs, in terms of enjoyment it was not up there with my most delicious runs, all of which were super slow. 🐢👍🏽🤸🏼‍♀️🏃🏽‍♀️

[Lifluf Graduate10]

Those are tough decisions but sensible I think. I find a short (about 3k) 'faster' run, a 5-6k and something longer is enough. I too run slowly. I sometimes think we snails are doing more than the hares because we're out running for longer times.

You will get there but, by making these decisions now, hopefully you'll get there without serious injury.

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Lifluf]

Yes, thank you. I think you’re right. 🙏👍🏽

[Rungranny 60minGraduate]

Managed c25k without any issues , then joined a training group and was increased to 10k ( only twice) . Intervals seem to be the cause of injury/ for me also. Hamstring did not like the sprints/ and caused high hamstring tendonopathy. Fancy name for a pain in the butt. I ignored it for a while and just kept going but eventually I had to get it seen to. No running for me for 2months now and it's still not healed. Apparently tendons have limited blood supply and are notoriously slow to heal. So if I ever get back to my nice 5 - 10k jogs I will stay clear of those fast paces

[CBDB Graduate10 in reply to Rungranny]

Thanks for this. Yes, I think I was thinking I’m 5 years further down the line of my fitness journey and also 15 years younger 😅.

It’s good to know that interval training has some risks attached, even if these are of our own making.

Hope your hamstrings recover well.