This has been going on 2 years now. I don't know what is worse ? Deep depression, or the crippling anxiety. I mean I do not want to leave the house. If I don't. I will never leave the house so I have to push myself. Every morning it is like a shock. I instantly wake up shaking with intrusive thoughts. I tell myself they are just thoughts and move on. They still keep coming. The biggest scare for me is will this end ? I try to stay out anxiety groups because some of the people on there say they had this anxiety for years and it scares me to death because there is no way I can keep going like this for years. My doctor has me on kolonapin for it. I take it in the morning. It slows it down a little. By 4 in the afternoon it is gone and night time is my best time. Wake up in the morning and it starts all over again. My husband and kids do not know how to help me. This is starting to mess up my marriage. I am already in therapy. Which does not seem to help. I hope and pray that I will get better.
I need some guidance : This has been... - Anxiety and Depre...
I need some guidance
Have you read Hope and Help for Your Nerves: End Anxiety Now by Claire Weekes? There are different approaches out there. Some people posting here have recovered from anxiety. There is hope.
I don't believe it. There is a known science based method for terminating an incipient anxiety, 100% effective, if the technique is applied correctly. See one of my detailed posts on this. And there are many strategies such as mindfulness, grounding exercises, diagphragmatic breathing that can diminish anxiety but not END it. The best hope for significantly reducing it is a a combination of therapy and medication. Even those strongest interventions, in many cases do not end anxiety although they may significantly reduce it. The claim to "End anxiety" is false and misleading and, in a way cruel, to lead suffering people down a path that is, essentially, a dead end. She probably sells a lot of books and makes a lot of money that way. Hope goes a long way towards people digging in their pockets and spending money. Shame on you Claire Weekes!
I disagree. Any one can overcome anxiety. Any one. Period. It is a learned behaviour [albeit unwittingly], maintained by fear, or fearing the feelings of fear which means it can be unlearned. When I say anxiety, I'm referring to chronic anxiety that interferes with your daily life and the depression that usually follows. People struggle to function. Performing simple tasks becomes almost impossible. The sufferer's only real problem is their struggle to cope with those intrusive thoughts and feelings and probably forgotten or don't know how they developed anxiety.
Sufferers can develop agoraphobia and don't leave the house because they fear what might happen if they do go outside.
It's not the outdoors they fear, it's how they will feel if they did go outside. Fear is the root cause of anxiety and fighting to avoid the symptoms.
You cannot overcome anxiety unless you are prepared to face and accept all symptoms willingly and let time pass.
I followed Dr Weekes' teachings in full and recovered. I no longer feel anxious at inappropriate times and nor do i keep looking over my shoulder worrying if it will come back. I lost my fear of it and it all faded away. The only thing I did was to change my attitude towards the anxious thoughts and feelings. I hoisted the white flag and let the anxiety run riot and did nothing to stop it. I accepted it all, willingly.
I have posted a ton of information on this forum over the past few years about recovery and what it takes [literally nothing], all based on Dr Weekes.
There is no better [and probably the first] self-help publication that educates sufferers, teaching them all about anxiety, how it manifests [Dr Weekes had first hand experience] and removing a lot of the bewilderment and fear that is keeping them in a vicious cycle and how to recover.
Basically, you accept it all instead of trying to recover, trying to get rid of it. Trying to think or feel differently.
It can take time to develop the passive attitude towards all symptoms but entirely possible by following Dr Weekes' teachings in full. No half measures such as accepting some anxious thoughts but not others.
Dr Weekes reminds me of that old Chinese proverb,
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Hi Beevee: I think you are misreading me. If Dr. Weekes' title were something like "Anxiety Disorder Coping Mechanisms," I'd have no problem and the title would not have sent up red flags. I'm sure the book is chockful of useful advice, techniques and strategies that can help us to cope with anxiety. The problem is with the factually false and scientifically false claim that anxiety can or should be ended or terminated. The problem with the title is the single word "end" which presents a serious falsehood:
It’s important to understand that completely ending or eradicating anxiety is neither possible nor desirable because anxiety serves a vital role in keeping us safe and alive. Anxiety is not a flaw or a weakness—it’s a survival mechanism deeply rooted in our biology. Trying to eliminate it entirely would be like trying to get rid of hunger or pain; these are signals that protect us from harm and help us navigate challenges. Without anxiety, we would lose our ability to recognize danger, prepare for important events, or respond effectively to emergencies, which could lead to serious consequences for our well-being.
Anxiety, in its essence, is deeply tied to the body's natural "fight or flight" response, which is controlled by the sympathetic nervous system. This system activates automatically when we perceive danger or stress, helping us respond quickly to threats by increasing our heart rate, sharpening our senses, and preparing us to either face the challenge or escape it. This response isn't unique to humans—it's found in many other animals, from mammals like dogs and cats to reptiles and birds, as it plays a crucial role in survival across species. Imagine if this mechanism didn’t exist: a deer would not flee from a predator, or a person might not react quickly to avoid a car speeding towards them. While excessive anxiety can feel overwhelming and may require support to manage, the ability to experience it is not a flaw but a survival tool hardwired into us by evolution, ensuring our safety and adaptability in a world full of potential dangers.
It’s important to note, however, that while anxiety is a natural and necessary part of life, it can become problematic when it becomes chronic or disproportionate to the actual challenges we face. This is the case with conditions like Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), where the "fight or flight" response is triggered too often or without a clear cause, leading to excessive worry and physical symptoms that interfere with daily life. In such cases, anxiety is no longer functioning as a helpful survival mechanism but has instead become a source of distress. Thankfully, there are effective treatments, such as therapy, medication, and mindfulness practices, which can help manage pathological anxiety without the unrealistic goal of eradicating it entirely. The focus is on finding balance, so anxiety works for us, not against us.
I hope this clarifies my argument as well as the nature of Dr. Weekes' false claim.
Thanks Linuxusr. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick and not intended. I agree with everything you have said about our natural fight/flight mechanism.
I'd wager that most people on this forum have become fearful of our natural human response that is designed to protect us from danger and the various symptoms that come with it, such as intrusive thoughts and feeling scared.
I am always careful to make the distinction that anxiety cannot be completely eradicated and don't recall reading that in Dr Weekes' book. She made it clear that her teachings would only help so much if the sufferer was struggling with an issue that caused the anxiety e.g. sorrow, guilt or disgrace and continually topping up anxiety levels. The sufferer would need to find a solution to the issue that was satisfactory to them before acceptance would help.
My interpretation was that her teachings would help to significantly reduce the severity of my anxiety [which was running at 11] down to its natural default setting [peace of mind and body] and only called into action when real danger was imminent.
Believe me when I say that I desperately wanted to eradicate anxiety completely many times whilst at the height of my suffering.
Through acceptance, peace of mind and body eventually returned and my fight or flight response now lies dormant but hopefully ready to spring into action if I'm attacked by a sabre toothed tiger on my way to the shops! Time will tell 🤣
The intense levels of anxiety that I felt all day, every day have vanished completely.
If a person can answer No to the following questions, they have nothing to fear.
Does anxiety control any part of my life?
Do I care about feeling anxious?
Do I care if those anxious thoughts and feelings return?
A person who has not been through what we have been through isn't scared about anxiety. They don’t dwell upon it. Their focus is on living life, not anxiety and constantly monitoring how they are feeling. That was my goal and my understanding of Dr Weekes" publications.
Why don't I care any more? Her books helped me to understand what was happening to me, why it was happening and disspelled alot of the fear and bewilderment I was feeling. I no longer feared the symptoms even though they still felt scary. I reached the point where I was genuinely okay about not being okay.
Up to then, I was not okay and the constant battle with fear [and my trigger happy natural fight flight response] kept me in that vicious fear- adrenalin-fear loop.
When I stopped worrying about being full of fear, recovery was just a matter of how long it took for my to nerves to desensitise and peace of mind and body returned.
Best wishes!❤️
Hi Beevee: I REALLY appreciate your thoughtful response, And I agree with everything YOU said! I think you made a particular comment that I found very insightful in the context of the fact that there are many members here who appear not to distinguish between "normal" suffering and pathological suffering: "I'd wager that most people on this forum have become fearful of our natural human response that is designed to protect us from danger and the various symptoms that come with it, such as intrusive thoughts and feeling scared." That being said, life is tough, so I really can't blame anyone for venting if it makes one feel better!
Life is tough enough without the additional suffering that debilitating levels of anxiety bring.
I want those people to know that they aren't broke, that there is a way out and that trying to rid themselves of anxiety is a battle they cannot win because they are fighting their natural fight/flight response that has just got a bit trigger happy.
The path to recovery can be tough but does get easier. As the old saying goes, nothing worth having comes easily.
Have a peaceful and relaxing evening ❤️
I couldn't agree more! It's the same with 90% of products and books out there - they don't work, and it's all about money. Whether it's wrinkle remover, cold cures, weight loss - they don't work, There's no guarantees about most prescription drugs, either. We all know people who have taken 20 or more antidepressants that don't work, and do more harm than good. I'm one of them. Thank you for being the one to bring this to light, finally.
Regarding psychiatric medications, for example, the SSRI's, the SNRI's, the tricyclics, etc. I would like to make a few generalizations. For a given medication, when you read the scientific literature with reference to efficacy and metabolical pathways, there is much in the way of biochemical and neurological phenomena that are unknown. Psychiatric medications, having had a history of only about 75 years, are in the infancy of their development. In my parents' generation they did not exist. In mental health institutions, hydrotherapy, (hot baths), were a common intervention. The first class of medications that arrived on the scene (I think) were the trycyclics, such as imipramine.
I would say that, on the whole, that psychiatric medications have proven their effectiveness in the significant reduction of anxiety and depression. But there are caveats: 1. There are almost always side effects, some debilitating, and one must weigh the costs with the benefits, 2. There are sometimes problems with individual responses to a particular medication, which proves to be ineffective, requiring either a dosage change or a change to a different class of medications, 3. There are patients with severe MDD who are treatment-resistant an must consider options such as ECT, 4. Except for the short-acting anxiolytics, the medications that modulate neurotransmitters, must reach steady state before they are effective. This means that even if one is suffering greatly, that one must wait weeks before symptom reduction, etc. etc. Moral of the story: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water!
That's true. I keep in mind the fact that the trials for these meds are done by the companies themselves before approval by the FDA and NIMH, so there's an extreme bias for these drugs approval, ... they want the billions that are made by consumers. I wouldn't trust any of that. They're actually just words on paper, and none of us have the ability to actually understand how, or if, they work, You seem to have and extensive, lengthy, and impressive knowledge on this subject. I've done all these drugs correctly for years, including ECT - never again. Lost lots of memory permanently - scary.
IDK Beavis2022! For what it's worth, here's my friend's AIB's opinion:
Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Randomized Controlled Trial (DBPC-RCT)
The Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Randomized Controlled Trial (DBPC-RCT) is a clinical research methodology designed to evaluate the efficacy and safety of interventions such as medications or vaccines while minimizing bias. Its key characteristics include:
Randomization: Participants are randomly assigned to either the treatment group (receiving the intervention) or the control group (receiving a placebo or standard of care). This ensures comparable groups, eliminating selection bias.
Double-Blinding: Neither the participants nor the researchers know which group a participant belongs to during the trial. This reduces observer and reporting bias.
Placebo Control: A placebo is used in the control group to mimic the treatment conditions, allowing a direct comparison to determine the true effect of the intervention.
Predefined Outcomes: Outcomes and methods of analysis are specified before the trial begins, ensuring rigor and reproducibility.
Clinical Trial Phases and Post-Approval Monitoring
Phase I: Tests the intervention on a small group (20–80 people) to evaluate safety, determine safe dosage ranges, and identify side effects.
Phase II: Expands to a larger group (100–300 people) to assess efficacy and further evaluate safety.
Phase III: Involves large-scale testing (1,000–3,000+ people) to confirm effectiveness, monitor side effects, and compare the intervention to standard treatments. Regulatory approval is sought after successful completion.
Phase IV (Post-Marketing Surveillance): Conducted after approval, this phase monitors long-term effects, rare side effects, and overall performance in broader, real-world populations.
Counter-Argument to the Skeptic’s Claim
Claim: The profit motive of pharmaceutical companies introduces bias, rendering the safety and efficacy of medications or vaccines suspect.
Intrinsic Counter-Measures to Bias
Regulatory Oversight:
Agencies like the FDA (U.S.), EMA (EU), and others independently review clinical trial data before granting approval. Trials must meet rigorous safety and efficacy standards, and companies face severe penalties for non-compliance.
Approval is contingent upon transparent reporting of data, including adverse events.
Standardized Protocols:
DBPC-RCTs are designed to eliminate common biases through randomization, blinding, and placebo control. These methodological safeguards ensure that data integrity does not depend solely on the sponsor's intentions.
Ethical Oversight:
Institutional Review Boards (IRBs) and Data Monitoring Committees (DMCs) are independent bodies that oversee trial conduct, prioritize participant safety, and halt trials if unethical practices are observed.
Peer Review and Publication:
Trials are typically published in peer-reviewed journals, subjecting findings to scrutiny by the scientific community. Any inconsistencies or attempts at manipulation are often exposed.
Post-Marketing Surveillance (Phase IV):
Even after approval, interventions are monitored for long-term safety and efficacy. Regulatory agencies can withdraw approval if significant issues arise.
Transparency Initiatives:
Increasingly, trial registries (e.g., ClinicalTrials.gov) and open-data mandates ensure public access to clinical trial designs and results, holding companies accountable.
Evaluating the Profit Motive Claim
Strengths of the Claim:
It’s valid that pharmaceutical companies operate within a profit-driven model, which can lead to concerns about conflicts of interest.
Historical cases of misconduct (e.g., withholding negative trial results) justify public skepticism.
Weaknesses of the Claim:
The rigorous multi-layered oversight system (regulatory agencies, IRBs, peer review) minimizes opportunities for unethical behavior to go unchecked.
The stakes for non-compliance are high, including legal penalties, reputational damage, and loss of public trust.
Real-World Context:
Most approved medications and vaccines undergo decades of safety monitoring without major issues, demonstrating the system's reliability.
Independent research often corroborates findings from industry-sponsored trials, further affirming results.
Conclusion
While the profit motive introduces potential for bias, the structure of DBPC-RCTs and the accompanying regulatory framework contain robust safeguards to ensure safety and efficacy. These systems are not perfect but represent a well-regulated environment designed to prioritize public health. Public skepticism is healthy, but dismissing the entire system overlooks its proven successes in advancing medical science responsibly.
Yes. I am reading that book now.
There are a couple of people here who have recovered using that. I am not one of them. I hope you will hear from one of them. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, ACT has been very helpful for me. Accepting that the fear is there and then doing what you want in spite of it.
Read it again and again until her teachings become second nature. At first, I could not relate to it [anxiety was bluffing me at every turn] but was a slow burner.
It became my bible, along with At Last a Life by Paul David which is also about acceptance which creates the space and time for your battered nerves [caused by prolonged stress] to desensitise and for normal thoughts and feelings to return.
Beevee I am so happy to see you here. You are such an inspiration.
Thank you! I like to pop my head round the door from time to time 🤣
In all seriousness, I know that this forum is a great source for comfort, support and guidance but believe there must come a time when the sufferer leaves their comfirtable surroundings and flies solo, coping with the symptoms the right way through full acceptance. I was like this but the more I knew I was on the right path and stopped questioning the myriad symptoms, the less I needed to check in for support. The site that helped me alot can be found at anxietynomore.co.uk. the site owner also.published books on his recovery [by accepting]. He probably does Facebook and Twitter too but I never bothered with that! I just learned from other sufferers that had recovered and posted their experiences on his blog.
If I'm asked to summarise how to recover in one sentence, this is it.
MAJE YOUR LIFE BIGGER THAN YOUR ANXIETY.
Sufferers need to get out there and take their anxiety with them for the rde. Your focus gradually turns outwards, instead of inwards, and constantly monitoring your thoughts and feelings.
That is why I took myself back to work even though I was full of fear and didn't want to go! I faced those [perceived[ fears.
Sorry for the rambling post but I'm pretty passionate about anxiety when I get going!
Best wishes ❤️
I feel like I'm reading my own post. Minus the children. I have to say the past 2 years have been up and down, but it's gotten better. Morning is the hardest for me as well. Do you have a daily routine at all? That sometimes helps me if I know what I'm doing the next day and then the morning isn't as scarry. You have to keep going out, even if it's just for a walk or short trip. Get out of the house everyday. Keep gradually doing more and more outside of the house. It's all mind tricks. I get caught up in it myself, but we really know nothing terrible is going to happen, but our brain wants us to think that way.
Are you on anything other than clonazepam? Not that I'm pushing for medications, but maybe an antidepressant would help for short term. And if you think the therapy isn't helping then tell your therapist that. Maybe they can revisit what your goals are and try a different type of therapy. If not then find a therapist willing to work with you.
I don't know if any of this helps. I wish I could say there was something that worked immediately. That would be great wouldn't it? Keep trying your best and it will get better. We are all a work in progress!
I am so sorry, Mindloss. Which is worse, anxiety or depression? That's a good question. I have suffered both and severely (at times) since three years of age. In my experience anxiety is worse for the absolute terror that it can create, fear of losing your sense of self, fear of losing your mind, fear of being annihilated. This is particulary true in the anxiety attack. On the other hand, depression does not fill me with terror. It fact it feels quite safe. The problem is that the feeling of suffering is tremendous. When really bad it's hard even to talk, needing to push out each word. In my opinion, there are better strategies for coping with and even preventing anxiety than there are for depression. If you can search and check my user name, for example, I wrote a detailed post, science based, on a method for stopping an anxiety attack in its tracks. The method will reduce moderate anxiety and may stop somatic anxiety but it will not stop moderate anxiety, only reduce it.
I used to also wonder which was worse: my anxiety or my depression or my schizoaffective disorder? But after a while I realized that my anxiety made my depression and behavior worse. My fears feed my behavior in a very bad way. My anxiety/fears often make my day so much worse. I think my parents or at least my Dad thinks that I blame them or that he thinks it is his fault what is going on with me. My Dad and I get into a lot of arguments.
Hey Mind
I found 95% relief after trying many things both therapy and medication wise . Keep searching and problem solving.
I’m proof it can happen, so don’t give up.
If you’d like to know more just ask
Franklin
Pin down root cause of anxiety.....being anxious can worsen or cause depression. Anxiety leads to depression. Low anxiety less depression. Anxiety cause you know something is wrong cause you don't feel good. It's your bodys fight or flight response so it's normal. I find reading books, going for walks, and talk Therapy helps.
Mindloss, I sympathize with you on all counts; I suffer with intrusive thoughts, anxiety, depression. To me the anxiety is the worst, because it colors and exaggerates everything toward the negative.
Antidepressants have helped me more than I can say. Therapy, too. Most of the last 35 years for me has been relatively free of these symptoms. It has been hard to accept that I need a drug to feel normal, but I’ve managed to bend my mind around that.
When I read your post I deeply identified with what you expressed. I had my first debilitating bout with this when I was 24. I'm almost 62 and have had countless bouts some lasting longer and some being of much worse intensity, truly torturous and seemingly endless. I have always somehow and I don't know how come out of them only to be afflicted again and again. I've even had extended periods of very productive even what I consider happy years in between episodes. I have availed myself of everything I can and to one degree or another it has helped me survive each day up to this point. I am currently experiencing another serious episode so I do guided breathing meditation exercises with Youtube "Shivarasa", Othership, and many others; this helps the moments but doesn't rid me of it. I also use Klonopin at night mainly because in my case complete sleeplessness for days and months overcome me and in these episodes Klonopin seems to be the only medicine that helps me survive an episode. I've been diagnosed and prescribed accordingly with various mental disorders like Bipolar, Major Depressive Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and such. Unfortunately, none of the medications helped but rather made my condition worse. I take warm baths and do breathing exercises in the tub. I force myself to eat and take vitamins and minerals to get at least enough nutrition to survive.Anyway, you are not alone, please know you are worthy of love and enough no matter what your condition is. Please try as I do to survive each day🤝
Dear Mindless Medication is a good help and therapy too. You mentioned prayer. I agree that is what has helped me. God loves you and hears every word you say to him. Start your day with Him. He will keep you in the palm of His hand. I will be praying for you each day too. Many hugs.
Mind loss. You have described exactly what I went through and want to reaffirm that you can recover. It's only your anxiety telling you that you won't! I had this too.I then read Dr Claire Weekes book Essential Help for Your Nerves which provided the foundations to recovery.
See my response to another person on the thread below and happy to help further.
You will get there once you understand that anxiety is a paradox. The more you try to do to recover, the more it feels out of reach. Stop trying! ❤️
I'm so sorry you're struggling sweetie 🥰 I hope you start feeling better soon 😊
I have this shaking in the morning, too, Makes me wonder if something from the past is making me scared, even though it was a long tome ago? Maybe part of getting old? My brother recently died from Parkinsons, so I asked my dr., she said that's not how Parkinsons act. So it's something else. Part of depression? We'll never know, I guess. Sleeping is my main problem; awful, isn't it? Drugs don't work any more; don't know what to do. I feel for you - we seem to be in the same boat.....
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