Can someone truly be a lost cause?

[MiamiJacket84]

This isn't specifically about me, just a hypothetical question. What if someone genuinely has tried every option available to them several times each and in several ways? What if there just isn't any other option available now? Do they just force themselves to live in misery? Or do they choose not to?

[MiamiJacket84]

That doesn't really answer my question though. Like I said, this random person likely tried every available option. The question isn't why someone should try, it's what if they did try everything?

[cashew78 in reply to MiamiJacket84]

It's a matter of their own perspective. They create the narrative and decide how it plays out. Ideally, if they're truely doing well enough as possible, they make and navigate the consequences as best they can.

[hypercat54 in reply to MiamiJacket84]

It would take a lot of years to try everything and give it time to start helping actually. There are many different types of therapy and lots of different meds to try.

Too many people expect quick results and give up after a few goes. Perseverance is the key.

[cashew78]

....this is a complicated question, and it seems a bit loaded to me. Hypothetically speaking, yes, it's possible that someone is a lost cause.

Though it's not the same, think for a moment about serious drug addiction; some folks are completely unable to take responsibility for their issues, try treatment options without enthusiasm, and come away saying the treatment is the failure. Then there are those who make a truely herculean effort, take responsibility, connect the dots in their life on how they got here, and get clean... only to relapse because the addiction is stronger than them at that time, they feel like a failure, and their misery becomes not only justified but warranted in their mind.

Which is the one who's a lost cause?

Mental health is not an addiction to being bipolar or OCD or consistent depression. It's both a lego playset that has been put together wrongly over years to make yourself somewhat functional and it's a connect the dots game where the dots aren't always obvious or visible. Like that minority of addicts who hypothetically refuse to take any responsibility for their own life and blame everyone else for where they are, there are hypothetical people who are a lost cause because they externalize their suffering through mental health issues and loudly, even violently, make it everyone else's problem, either intentionally or unintentionally/unconsciously.

Then there's the rest of us who dare; we post ideas and stories and seek advice in forums and support groups like this because, even if our mental health monster is bigger than we are today, tomorrow might be the day we kick its ass and get at least an inch of respite.

... hypothetically.

And, like drug addicts, we can also hypothetically get to a place where we (excuse the analogy) are clean and sober and fit more into what society hypothetically considers 'normal'... as subjective and boring as that hypothetical construct is 😶

[MiamiJacket84 in reply to cashew78]

I doubt every treatment has a 100% success rate just because of enthusiasm though.

[MiamiJacket84 in reply to cashew78]

If anything, this just sounds cruel. "Oh you're treatments didn't work because you weren't interested enough, you're the problem here"

[cashew78 in reply to MiamiJacket84]

I didn't say that. Of course treatments don't work, people are drug resistant, or their situation is such that being well enough isn't tenable. What I'm saying is that you do the best you can

[Hidden in reply to MiamiJacket84]

I don’t believe he was inferring that. His analogy was pretty good I thought. Sometimes the effort creates the results

[cashew78]

nah, i don't think that's what's happening here. I think the OP is genuinely trying to work something out/work through something here. Not offended, this is a hypothetical conversation after all 😉

[Dolphin14]

This is one of your toughest questions so far.

I guess those that are lost end out with very difficult lives. It's very sad to think about it really. I'm not burying my head in the sand just saying it must be such a hard life if nothing works.

I recently read Matthew Perry's book. Have you read it? He tried everything the system had to offer but he couldn't kick the depression so he self medicated.

How is school going?

🐬

[MiamiJacket84 in reply to Dolphin14]

It's going decent enough. Tell me more about this Matthew Perry though.

[Dolphin14 in reply to MiamiJacket84]

Happy to hear about school.

You know him right? He was depressed when he was a kid. He hid the pain behind his comedy. He did the counseling thing, the meds etc. but it was his underlying depression that drove him to drugs and alcohol. His life was very dark.

It's on a much different scale than some of us here probably. I think you are talking about traditional treatments not helping people. So I'm not sure if the relation to becoming an addict is where your question was going. However, maybe that's the path of the " lost cause" you are referencing?

[MiamiJacket84]

I don't believe a back and forth conversation to share different views about a topic is "confrontation". If what everyone wants is just cookie cutter toxic positivity then this wouldn't be a forum, it would be a regular website like any other positive mental health article or whatever. The point of a forum is engagement and conversation.

I don't "shoot down" views, I challenge them, to understand it better with a thoughtful mind. I never say people's views are wrong or futile, I just ask for a better meaning if I feel some more information would be useful. If we all just take whatever anyone says at face value, then we might as well just be bots.

People should have the choice to respond to my posts or not. People should think for themselves. I will not deny that this belittlement is annoying me. So please, if you don't want to engage with me, then simply don't.

[bobbyrita]

My life has been filled with suffering almost from the start but I HAVE EXPERIENCED GOD THROWING ME GOLDEN SAFETY NETS FROM TIME TO TIME. Just when I least expect it and don't ask, help comes. my term golden net. i have to believe there is no lost cause-if so i would have been one too many times.

[Hidden]

OK MJ. I’m going to take a whack at this and I could be off base, but this is one reporter’s opinion

I’m not sure if one can say they have tried everything. The myriad of possible solutions, could be in theory, endless. Although there is a somewhat a finite amount of things to try. How we try them, how we apply them, our environment, and on and on , literally can be endless .

For many I believe the process can seem endless , so frustration snd exhaustion can set in., but it just might be that that precise combination of solutions hasn’t been found yet.

Your question is a difficult one and there is no right or wrong answer in my opinion.

Very thought-provoking though and I appreciate you posing the question.

Much love,

Craig

[-Charlie]

Hypothetically speaking … I don’t think anyone is a lost cause up to and until the time that they themselves give up. Doctors and therapists can only do so much, effort has to be made on both sides and so often a patient is mismatched with a particular doctor, remedy, and advice that never provides much hope in the process. Some patients have little options for other treatments and are surrounded by environments that are not conducive to healing. Some traumas are too deep and unhealed, years go by without success, and the mind becomes resistant to any kind of optimism or hope.

Do they force themselves to live in misery? Well, yeah, of course some do. Why would they not if it’s all they know? One thing I have noticed over the years is that regardless of how miserable someone is, it becomes their normal, it’s what they are familiar with and have adapted their life to thereby perpetuating the cycle. They develop a fixed mindset of lack as change involves fear and too many unknowns when they are already compromised.

I doubt anyone has tried ‘everything’ but possibly everything available to them (based on where they live) has been tried unsuccessfully. But yes, in some respects, it can be a choice to remain in misery, but only because it’s familiar to them and they don’t believe there is any way to change that based on their past experiences and beliefs. They aren’t a lost cause but they can’t see that so all hope is often lost.

[Xene in reply to -Charlie]

Great response and so very true. Obviously we are all unique but when we become entrenched in our own negativity for whatever reason it is so very hard to break the cycle and the longer it goes on the harder it is to dig our way out.

[-Charlie in reply to Xene]

Thank you Xene, I agree and really appreciate the response.

[Run-out]

Not everyone gets to have a good life.I'm 62.

I tried everything - multiple times.

I forced myself to do alot of things - but, enjoyed very little.

I white knuckled and gritted my teeth through life.

Afterwards - fatigue, exhaustion and depression.

Since 1980 - I've spent atleast half of my life in my house.

Not because I wanted to - but because of panic and anxiety.

I'm very much an extrovert (Internally) - I like people and I wanted to be around them.

I lost every single friend I had because they took it personally when I could no longer make any plans.

In the late 90s - I developed CRPS (chronic regional pain syndrome).

That has been hard.

But, still there are people born everyday who have it worse than me and over half the planet has no dependable access to food or water.

So, keeping things in perspective - I'm doing okay...

I wish things had been better - but they weren't.

I've been in quite a few support groups - and most people recover - some never do... and everyone mostly falls somewhere inbetween those poles.

I'd hope nobody considers me a lost cause - because I've fought very hard not to be.