Has anyone else delved into reading and practicing willingness from ACT? I read it in Steven Hayes' book, Get Out of Your Head and Into Your Life, did the exercises a couple times, and have tried to practice it in therapy and life - which I have found elusive, tricky and challenging. I still know I am resisting and avoiding things I don't like, that make me anxious, like work, procrastination, etc.
I try to bring compassion to it. I would like to get better at this most elusive of skills, if anyone has experience to share. Thanks.
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Gandolfication
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Hi, I understand what you're saying. I've recently, and finally, accepted and acknowledged my anxiety and have begun to heal. It's not easy or quick imo. I'm taking it slow. To see it in a different light helps. Anxiety and panic attacks are irrational and I have to challenge my thoughts and journal about it.
I often ask myself questions like 'what do you think will happen, what do you want to happen and, what will most likely happen?' That's been most beneficial to me. Trying to make the irrational, rational.
I've used ACT and have a book on it to help me with my anxiety and depression and found it helpful to have in my tool chest. I had high-functioning social anxiety for years and what really helped was learning that anxiety is truly a paradox, the more you struggle and fight it the more it persists and it can be the same for depression. Learning to accept and even embrace how I really felt, especially the very difficult emotions and sensations and know it's all part of being truly human helped in my healing. I started gaining more self compassion and acceptance and knowing that I will be ok regardless of what is happening. I may not like it but I will be ok. For my anxiety, I found the DARE Anxiety book and youtube videos very helpful and I started daring my anxiety to even get bigger and more intense and go ahead and do anything I was afraid of, it really helped in my healing.
Wow, I really can't tell you how remarkable that seems to me. Especially the part of that "knowing that I will be ok regardless of what is happening".I feel like I put so much work in over the last 10 to 20 years, and in most respects is it relates to anxiety. Anxiety. I feel like I've made little to no progress and may even be worse off and how I handle it. It has been the most challenging and illusive thing in the world to me. Most of the time, including right now I still feel just utterly beaten and in despair over it.
I started to make progress with my anxiety when I learned that it is in essence a paradox and the more we struggle with it or fight and deny it the more it persists so the solution is to learn to accept the uncomfortable sensations knowing that they won't last too long and to never believe your anxious thinking because the anxious thoughts are lies. Anxiety is our body's builtin warning system but it can't differentiate between being attacked by a real tiger or a fake tiger and is basically malfunctioning. Anxiety also can be a builtin warning system trying to tell us to get help or change a belief about something. In my case a lot of my anxiety was from my repressing the rage and anger I had at growing up in an abusive household being shamed and punished for showing any sign of healthy normal anger and for trying to stand up for myself or being proud of myself. Once I really became aware of it and started processing it with a therapist it started reducing my anxiety.
Well again, this is hopeful. The parts about it being paradoxical, a fake tiger, and part of a malfunctioning fight or flight system resonate. I believe that it doesn't need to last too long, although it certainly seems like I manage to make it last nearly all day. Telling us to change a belief about something is very interesting. That feels true to me too.
My sense of the matter for myself at this point is that growing up, I was taught I had to be perfect and/or worthy of, and saved by, a God who was. So, when I couldn't not continue experiencing or believing in that god, I was simply unworthy, not enough, condemned and deserving of punishment - just as I'd literally been taught and indoctrinated since birth.
How to resolve this? I wish I knew. It seems like it should be through self acceptance and compassion and mindfulness, and how I've tried. In and out of therapy. Studied, practiced. I'm exhausted by it all.
Right now, as I try once more to resume getting work done in my practice, I feel mainly despair, fear and loneliness, like nothing I'll ever do or be will be enough. Even the relationships I have, are very painful because of this. And I feel worthless.
I hope and aspire to make progress on this. I've continued to use CBT and ACT tools, albeit not consistently enough.
Sounds like you and I maybe have similar backgrounds. I grew up in an evangelical christian home environment and our whole life revolved around going to church. I was emotionally and physically abused for showing any signs of expressing even normal anger and shamed for trying to stand up for myself or being proud of myself. I had low-self-worth and developed social anxiety. I tried "believing" when I was young but it didn't fit for me and as I got older I realized the hypocrisy and double standard and how fear-based the teachings were. My mom and my aunts were always on me to get saved and I finally had to write my parents a letter that their role as parents was to accept me unconditionally regardless of how I believed. Years later my mom thanked me for it. I'm grateful that I went to a public school and not a religious school because I saw that friends of mine that didn't go to church were doing just fine without it. A lot of my anxiety came from repressing my anger and rage at the way I was raised and it's taken a lot of therapy. One of the things I realized a few years ago is that what I was dealing with was complex trauma (c-ptsd) from my childhood and crappy parenting. I found a therapist that specialized in treating trauma/c-ptsd and worked with him which really helped, he used emdr as part of the therapy which was very effective. I think the worst thing someone can do is to take the bible literal, especially the old testament and the whole idea of "original sin" is total bullshit. My personal belief anymore is that all of the great prophets including Jesus were teaching the same thing which is unconditional love for ourselves, each other and everything and being on this planet and the problem with most religions is it denies and even demonizes the self and self love. It's not truly loving and accepting ourselves that is the root of the majority of our problems.
First, I'm sorry you went through that. The letter to your parents is extraordinary. That's amazing that our mom did eventually come around at least think you for it, but I can really relate to a lot of this. Last year, I sent my mom a section of pages from the book, Leaving The Fold: a guide for leaving fundamentalist religions by Dr. Malene Winnell. I was pleasantly surprised that most of her response wasn't too bad, even constructive, although she naturally had some disagreement and I think a little hurt herself. It had to be done.
Yah, mine is c-ptsd too, and I do need to explore treating more for that specifically. I keep hearing more people using EMDR and sounding like they tend to have good results. I've tried it mainly on my own and with YouTube teachers a few times, and once or twice in therapy. it feels weird and uncomfortable to me, and I don't know, maybe it helped the times I've done, it like a breathing mindfulness mediation does too. ?
"the problem with most religions is it denies and even demonizes the self and self love. It's not truly loving and accepting ourselves that is the root of the majority of our problems."
I totally agree with that. I don't know if its what the prophets and Bible were ever trying to get at or not, but ya, certainly I was taught all the opposite, that I am fundamentally wicket, evil, and actually totally worthless, without any good thing of or from myself.
Pretty obviously, this is why I have had SUCH a hard time making a dent in harsh self-criticism, practicing self compassion, and who knows what else.
I want to heal and get better. It's been such a long road and I am in so much despair about it so much of the time.
You're welcome and sorry you are still dealing with the trauma. I was going to tell you to check out info and youtube like Leaving the Fold, there is a facebook group I belong to that you might be interested in: Religious Trauma Recovery that is pretty active.
One of the things that impacted me and my healing was perfectionism and it could be that you are dealing with it too. It made me very self-critical and also critical of others and made healing more difficult. Mine came from my mother who was very critical and also being raised to fear a judgmental god and being judged for not being a believer when I was older. There are some good books and youtube for learning how to heal it.
i tried emdr with a general therapist originally but didn't find it helpful, I then found a therapist that specialized in treating trauma/c-ptsd who used emdr as part of the therapy and it really made a difference. Another thing you might look into is EFT which you can do yourself. I've tried it but could never remember the steps and was also doing emdr which worked for me so I didn't pursue it but it's supposedly effective for lots of people.
To me, one of the basic realities of most religions is they discourage or even demonize critical thinking and thinking for yourself which cripples our humanness and makes it difficult to validate ourselves.
Yeah I struggle with perfectionism. I tried to put a lot of work into this harsh criticism and judgment through self-compassion and mindfulness and acceptance and commitment therapy practices.
I know I made some progress, although it comes back with a vengeance. I don't know if it's bipolar disorder or CPSD or what. It lays me out.
I feel hopeless and despair right now.
Maybe I will try more of the somatic practices above sometime if I make it.
sorry that you are struggling, I know it's not a great place to be. You haven't mentioned if you are on any medication but if not, it sounds like you could benefit from it. After finding one that worked for me it has definitely helped.
I just watched a thing about healing ocd and he talked about acceptance and basically said that it's not about accepting to make it go away but it's about allowing and accepting the painful emotions and processing them which makes sense. I know my tendency was to use ACT to make the anxiety/emotions go away but forcing myself to sit with the uncomfortableness and even vent or rage my angst was healing.
I watched a good interview on Sounds True with Nataly Kogan and she talks about why we have the critical negative voice and that most people assume it's true but she recommends we talk back to it, which I have been doing and it helps, some days it's easier than others. She has a good youtube channel with a lot of good info/tips.
I wanted add that I did somatic therapy and found it really helpful for getting in touch with the repressed emotions in my body and processing them. I spent years denying and suppressing my emotions and so the therapy was very helpful for giving me the space and opportunity and guidance to process them.
I've done EMDR, which is not to say I understand it.
I've tried to do a lot of mindfulness based stress reduction (MBSR). Right now, I'm a little out of sorts to think about this; though am headed to a therapy appointment soon. I feel on one hand so desperate that I should be willing to try anything different; and on the other, like I'm just grasping at ever more exotic straws.
No, somatic therapy is different from emdr and eft and is more body centered therapy and places importance on what we experience in the mind and body and the connection with the two. A lot of our traumatic emotions are stored in the body without us being aware of them. I found it helpful because at one time I realized how much I intellectualized my emotions and repressed them and how disconnected I was from my body and realized I had a lot of repressed anger/emotions and so working with the therapist I was able to tap into them and process them. The therapist would observe me, notice and point out areas I was subconsciously blocking and help me get in touch with them.
I saw your your recent post on the site and wanted to say that for me my primary issue was anxiety with some depression but not major depression. I realized at one point that my depression was actually from repressing my anger and shame from growing up. It took me years to really acknowledge how angry I was at my parents and the way I was raised, I had originally thought I had issues with my dad but it was really mostly my mom that I was really angry at. Therapy helped me to acknowledge and process it and I also started gettin in touch with it and beating the crap out of pillows and even got a plastic baseball bat and used it. Whenever I felt triggered I would go beat the crap out of the pillows. I even started going outside and using a sledge hammer and beating the crap out of rocks, it felt so good to vent and release it all.
I also get your frustration it definitely sometimes feels like we're not getting anywhere but i'm sure you have made more progress than you acknowledge to yourself.
When i first started realizing and admitting to myself that I had a lot of repressed emotions I started paying attention to where I was holding the tension/emotions in my body. A lot of mine was stored in my upper back/shoulders and neck and a clue for me was that I had slight scoliosis when I was a teen which i then realized was from storing all the anger/trauma. So when I finally started being willing to tap into the emotions/anger and no longer be afraid of it, I would vent and mentally focus on who the perpetrator was and beat the crap out of the pillow. I would do it until I was emotionally exhausted and physically drained and it sure felt good afterward. After doing it a while I started focusing on other areas of my body that I was holding tension, etc... For me, it took my realizing how much I was in denial of my strong emotions and starting to pay attention to my body and my thoughts and being willing to excavate them, feel them and process them no matter how difficult. I started doing this in therapy and also on my own.
Interesting. I've tried to do this... feel my feelings, feel where in my body I'm holding tension... which for me it is in my upper back neck and shoulders also (which definitely became more pronounced and worse after I had a lower back injury a few years ago). It makes sense why it's related to resistance and avoidance. But for me there was never any kind of physical trauma or abuse? I guess just the psychological soft trauma of all the indoctrination that I was worthless and evil from fundamentalist Christianity and that type of upbringing. It seems to have led pretty directly to CPSD. And I guess could be a similar type of thing. But I haven't been able to really access or do anything or improve it.
The primary physical trauma I experienced as a kid was from whippings from my dad and mom because they believed in the "spare the rod spoil the child" christian bullshit but it was the emotional aspect of having to repress my anger and rage about it that got stored in the body. Even if you weren't physically traumatized but were emotionally it still gets stored in the body. My guess is that you are like I was in that you rarely allow or admit to being angry and it takes something really big to set you off and most of your anger is directed inward to yourself. When I realized what was going on I started paying attention throughout the day to my anger and if I felt it, allowing and venting it. You might keep a journal and make notes throughout the day of your emotions and thoughts, it can be helpful to realize how much we are really unaware of. You can google image "wheel of emotions" and see all of the different emotions we as humans can have.
Another thing you might check out is CEN, childhood emotional neglect, I really like the website/youtube of Jonice Webb about it, it also resonated with me. I had no emotional support from my parents other than criticizing and shaming when I had screwed up or wanted to do something they didn't approve of according to them. I think CEN is very common with people from a fundamentalist religious background.
I think the thing is that we need to learn to parent ourselves with the compassion, support and unconditional love that we did not receive from our parents that we should have. I think it's also a work in progress.
Yah (some of the some familiar with), I just don't have the self acceptance, let alone anything close to unconditional love... which I don't think exists...I'm in hell right now.
I'm so sorry you are having such a tough time of it right now, I saw your recent post and want you to know that all of us here care and support you and hope you realize that how you are feeling right now is temporary. I know it's very hard to be rational right now but you might try making a list of your options right now, for instance you might try meeting with a debt consolidation person to help you feel more financially stable and maybe seeing about getting your child support amount reduced. There is also your local NAMI chapter that has resources and support available. Know that there is no shame in admitting you are struggling and in reaching out and getting the help you need.
Like you, I had no idea what unconditional love was or felt like until I got a puppy named Walter that allowed me to slowly open my heart and feel and experience what it felt like.
I truly hope you will take care of yourself and get the help and support you need.
I've done so many of these things, many of them more than once, and sometimes things have helped. I feel exhausted. I just want to take strong sleep meds and not have to function or be conscious.
A nice woman I've been dating offered to come up and bring lunch, and stupidly I'm just ignoring it because I can't stand to be around myself right now, let alone pretend to be okay around someone else.
It sounds like you have developed some unrealistic expectations of yourself and are dealing with perfectionism directed inward.
The reality is that it's ok to not be ok and no one is making you pretend to be ok but you, so maybe just surrender and allow yourself to not be ok and quit trying and just take a break. Quit trying to fix yourself.
One of my favorite books is "There is nothing wrong with you" by Cheryl Huber, it's about our ego and learning to sit with it and doing mindful meditation. I too spent years thinking there was something wrong with me but the only thing that was wrong was my thinking and beliefs about myself.
Been practicing it for a bit. It's tricky. Some days I can successfully practice it and other days not so much.
It requires a lot of patience with one's self. Which I struggle with cause I'm not patient at all. But all good things in due time. Just have to take it slow and one day at a time.
It has been a minute since I read the book Gandolfication, it is essentially or closely related to acceptance right? There is a poster on here, BeeVee, that has a lot of stuff about acceptance. Many people also recommend Claire Week's book about anxiety, I am not 100% sure of the title.
I am working an accepting emotions in my therapy right now. I want to repress anything negative and not allow it to exist. I go eat my feelings when I am doing poorly. I am just letting stuff exist now, but I have also come to realize that financial stuff is closely related to security and just feeling that things will end up okay (not puke, edge-of-your-seat, world-is going-to-end anxiety). So that makes my job, school and hoping for a better job, adding any bills or unforeseen purchases, incredibly anxiety inducing for me. Maybe I will DM you, I had a post about self worth that had some interesting discussion. I had to work on that for a while. I do believe that everyone and everything has an inherent worth that cannot be added to or subtracted from. It is hard to rationalize, cuz you can try to base it on actions or potential and future actions, but then it becomes something that is not inherent. It is easy to apply if I think of anyone but myself. Sorry, this was started then I worked for a few hours and now I need to send it real quick. Peace be the journey
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